Insultingly labeled the "B" team by fans and national writers alike, the 2010 version of Team USA won Gold at the World Championships, succeeding where two previous teams of NBA stars had failed. Detractors might still point out that other countries did not send their best (no Ginobili for Argentina, no Pau Gasol for Spain), but previous versions of NBA stars have lost to lesser teams than this one played (who could forget Puerto Rico in the 2004 Olympics, for example?). So how good was this Team USA compared to past versions with NBA stars? My thoughts after the jump.
There have actually been twelve versions of Team USA with NBA players, starting with the original Dream Team in 1992: five Olympic teams (1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008), four World Championship teams (1994, 2002, 2006, 2010; 1998 was during the strike and non-NBA players were sent), and three FIBA Americas teams that enabled the U.S. to qualify for the Olympics (1999, 2003, 2007). For each team, I've listed their record, point differential, and roster with positions (1-5, an "s" stands for starter). Keep in mind that the FIBA Americas [FA] teams played only against weaker competition (teams from North/South America). For teams prior to 2010, I've given my opinion on how the 2010 team would have done against them in a one-and-done game under FIBA rules and in a seven-game NBA series. And for a Sixers slant, I've listed where this year's Andre Iguodala would have fit on the team, if at all.
2010 World Championships [WC] (9-0, +24.9)
- Roster: Billups (2s), Chandler (5), SCurry (2), Durant (4s), Gay (3), EGordon (2), Granger (3), Iguodala (3s), KLove (5/4), Odom (5s), DRose (1s), RWestbrook (1/2)
2008 Olympics (8-0, +27.9)
- Roster: CAnthony (4s), Boozer (4), Bosh (4/5), KBryant (2s), DwHoward (5s), LJames (3s), Kidd (1s), CPaul (1), Prince (3), Redd(2), DerWilliams (1), Wade (2)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2008 wins by 6-8 points
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2008 wins by 4-0 sweep
- Iguodala on this team: would fight for 12th man with Prince
- Comment: LeBron would probably guard Durant and make Durant work on defense too. Dwight Howard would abuse Odom on the boards. Deron Williams, Paul, and Wade would wreak havoc with their penetrations. 2010 WC would keep a FIBA game close by playing zone and slowing the game down. Spain kept the Gold medal game very close that way.
2007 FIBA Americas (10-0, +39.5):
- Roster: CAnthony (4s), Billups (1), KBryant (2s), Chandler (5), DwHoward (5s), LJames (3s), Kidd (1s), MMiller (2), Prince (3), Redd (2), AStoudemire (4/5), DerWilliams (1)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2007 wins by 4-6 points
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2007 wins by 4-2
- Iguodala on this team: could beat out MMiller or Prince for 11th/12th man
- Comment: mostly the same as 2008, Amare instead of Bosh and no Chris Paul.
2006 World Championships (8-1, +20.4):
- Roster: CAnthony (4s), Battier (2s), Bosh (5/4), Brand (5/4), Hinrich (1), DwHoward (5s), LJames (3s), AJamison (4/3), JoeJohnson (2), BrMiller (5), CPaul (1s), Wade (2)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2010 wins by 4-6
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2006 wins by 4-1
- Iguodala on this team: a better option than Battier to fill Battier's role as defense-oriented starter
- Comment: under NBA rules, this team still defeats 2010 WC, no contest. But 2010 WC would play a pure zone under FIBA rules and force 2006 WC to shoot from outside. Remember, 2006 WC lost to a team of no-names from Greece in the semifinals.
2004 Olympics (5-3, +4.6):
- Roster: CAnthony (3), Boozer (4), Duncan (5s), Iverson (2s), LJames (2/3), RJefferson (3), Marbury (1s), Marion (3/4), Odom (4s), Okafor (5), AStoudemire (4/5), Wade (2)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2010 wins by 10-12
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2010 wins by 4-3
- Iguodala on this team: starter instead of Jefferson
- Comment: this team had terrible chemistry and no outside shooting (31% from 3). They not only lost three times, they barely won several other games. NBA rules would make things easier for Duncan, who was still in his prime, but the Iverson-Marbury starting backcourt and the mediocre Richard Jefferson as starting SF would still be weaknesses.
2003 FIBA Americas (10-0, +30.9):
- Roster: RAllen (2), MBibby (1), Brand (4), VCarter (2/3), Collison (5), Duncan (5s), Iverson (2s), RJefferson (3), Kidd (1s), KenyMartin (4), McGrady (3s), JO'Neal (4s)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2003 wins by 5-7
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2003 wins by 4-2
- Iguodala on this team: bench player (7th-8th man) instead of Jefferson
- Comment: with Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, and Jermaine O'Neal in their primes in addition to Duncan, this team was widely regarded as better than the team that went to the 2004 Olympics. Jermaine and Kenyon Martin would make things tough for Durant, and Duncan and Iverson would expose Odom and Rose. A bad matchup all-around for 2010 WC.
2002 World Championships (6-3, +17.0):
- Roster: Brand (4s), AntDavis (4), BarDavis (1), Finley (2s), LaFrentz (4/5), Marion (3/4), AndrMiller (1s), RMiller (2), JO'Neal (5s), PPierce (3s), BWallace (5/4), JayWilliams (2/1)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2010 wins by 12-15
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2010 wins by 4-1
- Iguodala on this team: starter ahead of Finley
- Comment: probably the worst team the NBA has ever sent to an international competition. Antonio Davis? Raef LaFrentz?? If 2010 was the "B" team, this was the "D" team, although they didn't lose any of their games by more than 7, unlike the 2004 Olympic team.
2000 Olympics (8-0, +21.6):
- Roster: Abdur-Rahim (3/4), RAllen (2), VBaker (4/5), VCarter (3s), Garnett (4s), THardaway (1), AHouston (2), Kidd (1s), McDyess (4), Mourning (5s), Payton (2s), StSmith (2)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2000 wins by 2-4
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2000 wins by 4-3
- Iguodala on this team: bench player (9th-10th man) instead of Abdur-Rahim
- Comment: a prime Garnett would give Durant lots of trouble, but remember that this team barely defeated Lithuania by 2 in the semifinals
1999 FIBA Americas (10-0, +31.6):
- Roster: VBaker (4/5), Brand (4/5), Duncan (5s), Garnett (5s), Gugliotta (4/5), THardaway (1), AHouston (3s), Kidd (1s), Payton (2s), StSmith (2), Szczerbiak (3)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 2010 wins by 5-7
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2010 wins by 4-2
- Iguodala on this team: would replace Szczerbiak and possibly dislodge Houston as starting SF
- Comment: this team had a solid core led by prime Garnett, Kidd, and Payton and a young Duncan, but its depth was seriously lacking.
1996 Olympics (8-0, +31.8):
- Roster: Barkley (4s), AHardaway (1/2), GHill (3), KMalone (4), RMiller (2s), Olajuwon (5), SO'Neal (5s), Payton (1s), Pippen (3s), Richmond (2), DRobinson (5), Stockton (1)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 1996 wins by 10-12
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 1996 wins by 4-0
- Iguodala on this team: wouldn't make it
- Comment: with a starting lineup of future Hall-of-Famers and no weaknesses anywhere, this team would create serious matchup problems everywhere for 2010 WC and dominate the boards. And Pippen would no doubt guard Durant.
1994 World Championships (8-0, +37.8):
- Roster: DColeman (4), Dumars (2), KJohnson (1s), LJohnson (3/4), Kemp (4s), Majerle (3/2s), RMiller (2s), Mourning (5), SO'Neal (5s), MPrice (1), StSmith (2), DWilkins (3)
- Vs. 2010 WC in FIBA game: 1994 wins by 8-10
- Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 1994 wins by 4-1
- Iguodala on this team: would compete with Majerle and LJ for SF minutes
- Comment: this team shot 46% from 3 behind a prime Reggie Miller (30 3's in 8 games, 53% from 3), opening things up for Shaq inside (18 PPG on 71% shooting). It didn't have anyone who could defend Durant, which would keep things close.
1992 Olympics (8-0, +43.8):
- Roster: Barkley (4s), Bird (3/4), Drexler (2/3), Ewing (5s), MagicJohnson (1s), Jordan (2s), Laettner (4/5), KMalone (4s), Mullin (3/2), Pippen (3), DRobinson (5s), Stockton (1)
- Vs. 2010 in FIBA game: 1992 wins by 15-20
- Vs. 2010 in NBA series: 1992 wins by 4-0
- Iguodala on this team: wouldn't make it
- Comment: Derrick Rose and Westbrook might cause some trouble for the Dream Team with penetration, but the Dream Team, with maybe 10 of the top 25 players ever, would cause matchup problems at every position, especially Jordan and Barkley (too strong in the post for either Iguodala or Durant).
Overall, 2010 goes 4-7 in FIBA games, but 3-1 vs. previous World Championship teams (winning barely over 2006 WC). 2010 WC had some holes defensively (at PG and C) but was perfectly constructed for the tournament they played in and was one of the better defensive teams ever assembled by the U.S. I have Iguodala making 10 of the 12 teams and starting on 4 of them (in addition to 2010).
This post has even more speculation than usual, so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts ...
Insultingly labeled the "B" team by fans and national writers alike, the 2010 version of Team USA won Gold at the World Championships, succeeding where two previous teams of NBA stars had failed. Detractors might still point out that other countries did not send their best (no Ginobili for Argentina, no Pau Gasol for Spain), but previous versions of NBA stars have lost to lesser teams than this one played (who could forget Puerto Rico in the 2004 Olympics, for example?). So how good was this Team USA compared to past versions with NBA stars? My thoughts after the jump. 
Here's a question for you. Who wins, the 2008 Olympic team or the 1992 Dream team?
PG: Magic vs. Kidd
SG: Jordan vs. Kobe
SF: Bird vs. LeBron
PF: Barkley vs. Melo
C: Robinson vs. Dwight Howard
Man, that leaves Malone, Ewing, Pippen, Stockton on the bench. I don't think the '08 team would have a prayer.
92 Dream Team had some guys after their primes though. Bird was beat up with a bad back, Magic was old too. Barkley and Malone would proabably eat up Melo and Bosh. And David Robinson and Ewing would foul out or neutralize D. Howard. But if go with the 08' closing lineup of CP3, D-Wade, Kobe, Lebron, and Howard/Bosh (it'd have to be Howard) they could compete. Pippen and Jordan cause a ton of problems for Wade, Kobe , and Lebron with their D. '92 might struggle to keep Chris Paul and Deron Williams out of the lane with Magic and Stockton defending them though.
One thing you have to consider is what NBA rules they'd be playing with. Because if you could hand-check (which is the way it seems in FIBA) you'd have to make the Dream Team even bigger favorites because that would neutralize '08 team's quickness and expose their lack of a go-to post player.
Looking at all those rosters in a tourney I gotta say that 1996 team scares me. I think they could possibly take the Dream Team and definately the '08 squad. They have so much height and Shaq and Hakeem would abuse anyone down low. G-Hill and Pippen as your swingmen, Payton as a lock-down PG, Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond as shooters, Penny Hardaway coming into his prime, and you still have Barkley, Malone, and Robinson. The '96 team is MJ away from being the best team in my opinion (and I think is pretty close without him).
Looking ahead, the 2012 London team is gonna be stacked and would give everyone a run for their money.
Right, if I were to rank the teams, it would be 1992 and 1996, then 2008. Because old and slow Shaq is fresh in our minds, we tend to forget (I do, at least) what a force of nature he was in his prime or even before his prime, as he was in 1994-96. And 1996 had many of the same players as 1992, plus prime Penny Hardaway and Gary Payton. A game between 1992 and 1996 would have been great to watch.
The 2008 team would be competitive on the perimeter but would have few answers on the inside for either 1992 or 1996. Barkley vs. Carmelo Anthony? Wow.
Two other questions:
What do you think of Fran Fraschilla's idea that all levels of basketball in the US go to a 24-second shot clock (or at least a 35 s)?
- I think it would be a great idea in the high-school game.
How did we end up with Richard Jefferson as the starting SF for the '04 Olympic team (not to mention Marbury as our 2)? Was it an injury thing, a dearth of talent (in between eras), or did guys just say no?
If there was a 24 sec clock in HS then only 1 or 2 guys would ever touch the ball.
Yeah, I agree. I would like to see it in college, though. A deeper three-point line as well.
How did we end up with Richard Jefferson as the starting SF for the '04 Olympic team (not to mention Marbury as our 2)? Was it an injury thing, a dearth of talent (in between eras), or did guys just say no?
This was one of the most interesting stories when I was doing the research for this post. The 2003 FIBA Americas team was clearly better than the 2004 Olympic team (Wikipedia says a lot of NBA stars responded to the horrible 6th place finish at the 2002 World Championships), but only 3 players continued onto the 2004 Olympic team (Jefferson, Duncan, Iverson). The biggest downgrade was probably Jason Kidd (something like 50-0 in international play) to Marbury.
Jefferson was regarded as an athletic SF (in the Iguodala mold, but without the exceptional defense) and had just come off two appearances in the NBA finals. I've mentioned before that he'll probably go down as the worst starter the NBA has ever sent to the Olympics (and he played like it too, 32% FG, 55% FT).
I like the Sixers spin in this comparison. My question is with how good a fit Iguodala was for the 2010 WC Team, who does he beat out for the 2012 Olympic team?
Of course, it all depends on who shows up, but ESPN is running a poll asking readers to rank the 24 players from 2008/2010 for the 2012 Olympics here. So far, Iguodala is polling at 14th (surprisingly high, actually). My feeling is he'd have to beat out Carmelo Anthony to make the team -- which is possible if they think LeBron, Durant, and Wade give them enough offense.
Chris Sheridan of ESPN lists Iguodala on his projected 2012 Olympic team, ahead of PFs like Boozer and Odom.
I find it funny how the 2004 team was obviously the worst, but you choose to just ignore that.
"Vs. 2010 WC in NBA series: 2010 wins by 4-3"
What? The numbers, and reality, tell a much different story.
You mean 2010 would win more easily? Maybe, but I was thinking that with NBA rules (and, perhaps more importantly) NBA officiating, Duncan would be a tough cover for anyone on the 2010 team and Iverson would have a lot of success penetrating and drawing fouls. Maybe not enough to overcome the poor team chemistry of the 2004 team, though ...
Duncan would be a problem, I could see that series going 7 under NBA rules.
Duncan wouldn't be much of an issue. He doesn't cary the ball up the court. With that team, he wouldn't even get the basketball and if he did... iot would be a terrible netry pass by Iverson or off Iverson penetration at his ankles.
Wish there was an edit feature... or that I proofread more than once in awhile.
I do recall Magic and Bird both being well past their primes at this point but that 92 front court is absurdly strong. No chance for the 08 squad.
Also, Would just like to express how grateful I am that ed pinckney has left the sixers to join the bulls coaching staff. To express my excitement for this occasion, I would like to use a Pinckney quote that he often used during his color commentary career :
"well...thats uh...he he,WOW, really i mean, I'll tell ya...that's just..oh boy...WOW"
Look at those old frontcourts:
'92: Robinson/Ewing/Malone/Barkley
'94: Shaq/Kemp/Mourning
'96: Shaq/Hakeem/Malone/Barkley
'99: Duncan/Garnett/Brand/Baker
'00: Mourning/Garnett/McDyess/Baker
After that they stopped sending superstar bigs and the wheels fell off. Winning this year with a frontcourt of Odom/Chandler/Love was an anomaly and they were lucky the opposition lacked legit frotcourt players. Had Spain been represented by the Gasol's it would have been a different story. But instead they faced the Omar Asek's of the world...
How are you classifying "superstar"?
Amare/Brand/Duncan in 04 looks like superstars to me. All were 20 PPG players(only checked Amare)... and Marion was a 19/9 player.
Carmelo/Bosh/Brand/Howard in 06...
Gasol is a great player, though.
I think the problem really was making poor choices on players who derive such a high percentage of their productivity from scoring and doing so not-so-efficiently.
There have been some top level front-courts in recent years (like redeem team.) But I'd say the weakest have been:
2009: Odom/Chandler/Love
2002: J O'Neil/Brand/A.Davis/Lafrenz
The other front-courts in the 2000's have nad more stars, but I don't think they were at the level of those first few teams.