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Brett Brown Draws the Short Straw

I don't think Brown is here just for the development years. He will be given a chance to work with legit talent IMO if nothing extraordinary happens.

We'll see maybe i'm wrong but i have a feeling that as long as Brown maintains a solid relationship with Hinkie and the key players he will be here for a long time.

We'll see. He's going to have to get some key players to work with before any of this matters.

I think you're allowing your bitterness towards the 'rebuilding' process to cloud your understanding of what Brown said in his interview. From what I've read he talked very much like a man who was more worried about evaluating the talent on the roster than his career W/L record in the first few seasons.

As for what 'choice' he was, this was the guy whose name leaked on draft night. Who knows why it took so long, but this was the guy reportedly at the top of the list in June. No explanation for why it took so long to finalized, maybe it was money, maybe it was something else, but in the end it sounds like the GM got the guy he always wanted and maybe was patient enough to wait for him until he said yes.

I have nothing against the guy and won't unless/until he starts trying to win games this season.

I'm just saying I felt your analysis of his press conference was clouded by something as nothing else I've seen indicates he hasn't fully embraced the reset button - Let Evan Turner say 'not tanking' - his over trying can only help the team evaluate how bad he is and get closer to a top 3 pick

A coach isn't going to say "Try to lose." but this is quote I was referring to. Guess it's technically hearsay (what Turner says Brown said to him)...

"I told him, 'Everybody wants to be in tank mode and thinks we're going to lose. I intend on trying to win as much as possible because losing's too easy,' " Turner said. "He said, 'Well, they got the wrong coach if we're going to go out and lose on purpose. We want to compete and get better.' "


A. It's Turner
B. A coach's job is partly to placate players who aren't as insightful as they like to thinkg

We want to compete and get better, not sure what part of that says 'I'm not on board with rebuilding'. The job is to evaluate the talent and develop it - thus - yeah - he wants them to get better, it's part of his job to develop guys, but I'd read that more as someone trying to placate Turner's ego (which seems pretty fragile to me after the past couple seasons)

I wouldn't pay too much attention on that quote. What was Brown supposed to say to one of his players? That they will actively try to lose? Of course not. The players SHOULD give consistent effort and try to win games. The GM and to a degree the coach are the ones that can put a limit to winning via many ways.

Quite the contrary, i've never heard a coach speak less about trying to win in the following season. Regarding next season he was talking about process, pain and my favorite "science experiment". I really don't know what more can he say and not blatantly tell the media that the organization wants to be terrible next season and he's perfectly fine with it.

Not losing on purpose != focusing on player development over winning meaningless games.

If the expectation of a coach is that he's going to go out there and try to lose, I don't think you'll ever find one. If you have found a coach who is willing to concede that player development is more important than wins and losses this season, which I believe the Sixers have, then you've struck gold.

Brown talked about next year being an educated science experiment, said about how important it is to let players play through and give young players a chance, and talked about how he's looking at the development of the pieces on the team as the compass for his success rather than the result.

I really couldn't have expected much more from him, to be honest.

That's all well and good, so long as it's a long learning curve. I don't want him squeezing out wins this year or the whole thing blows up in our faces. He and the front office need to be prepared to take steps to make sure that doesn't happen.

Watch his press conference (in 3 parts) on sixers.com - even from the introduction I get the impression he knows it's a long haul rebuilding, tolerance, patience, these are key terms he's using

First shocker of the PC - Howard Eskin asks an intelligent well worded questions regarding 'how do you handle tanking' :)

This roster is so weak and raw that they will have one of the worst records in the league no matter how hard they try to win.


Lavoy Allen
after that, really no one with nba experience to start the season.

Lastly, a coach has to respond to a player who says "I don't want to tank" with some version of "we are not going to tank." Anything else would be a scandal.

I'm not interested in one of the worst records in the league.

So what exactly are you interested in for next season because the sixers are probably going to be the worst team in the league (barring injuries to other mediocre teams)

I'm interested in the worst record in the league. Not one of the worst records in the league.

There are no guarantees, but it seems universal right now that the sixers have positioned themselves very well to be down right putrid next year

The only thing thing that matters to me this year is finishing with the worst record, having a guaranteed top four pick and the best shot at Wiggins. Anything else is secondary, including player development. I hope this new coach feels the same way, despite what he says.

Yep, feel the same way. Give Noel a couple extra months of strength training once his rehab is done, then play him in Delaware for a few weeks. Coddle him, and give him as little exposure as possible to this sad sack team (while also making sure he doesn't accidentally improve the team).

Coach Brown (ugh, almost feels dirty saying that) multiple times put emphasis on development, physical fitness, physical endurance, the new training facility that they're building (I didn't know about that), a focus on defense while still being able to run...Noel's health will be 'held at a premium' says Brown

He barely even talked about Noel in the press conference. He might not even play next season.

From what i understood (and Brown was surprisingly very honest during the press conference), there are only three things that matter next season:
- developing MCW
- making Thad buy into the long term approach
- pump and dump everyone else if possible (they are all irrelevant long term)

has the organization said anything about royce white at all? I get the feeling they don't even care if he shows up.

Even when they acquired him, there were plenty of talks that White is irrelevant and that Aldemir is the real prize of the deal. Guessing that is correct.

it seems to have disappeared now but White tweeted the other day to someone who asked him if he'd ever play for the Sixers, something to the effect of "you never say 100% but I'm 99.9% sure" he will...wonder if Brown and Hinkie are already starting to crack down on social media use by players...

Matt reply to Xsago on Aug 20 at 13:04

Isn't a given that developing Noel will be a key this season as well? I don't think that will mean rushing him back or pushing for wins, but I hope Brown intends to spend a lot of time with Noel off the court and in walkthroughs, and at least get him some NBA minutes later in the season. I don't see the advantage of playing Noel in Delaware or dragging his rehab longer than it should take.

I was just saying what my impressions were from the press conference. Brown was super excited about Noel, but he sort of looked at him as a 2014 pick, not someone who will be the focus of development this year. I guess Noel will spend most of this season rehabbing and he won't play a lot if at all.

Following up on what someone said earlier, I assume JRich starts at the 3 right? MCW, Turner, JRich, Thad, Hawes....

I don't think J-Rich will be available for the start of the season if at all. He has a bad knee injury. He's out long term.

Stan reply to MikeW on Aug 19 at 19:37

Jason Richardson is expected resume basketball activities by February. I'm guessing James Anderson, who has averaged 3.7 ppg over his career, is supposed to be our starting SF. Or maybe they can move Thad to the 3 and have a front court of Hawes and Moultrie.

Tray reply to Stan on Aug 20 at 14:12

I remember Anderson looking pretty good as a rookie. Wouldn't be surprised if he outplays Turner this year, at least.

Terrible hire. I'm a bit perturbed at this move mainly because Brown comes off as way too intelligent and charismatic. We need to lose people! We need Wiggins or Parker! Brown is simply too good of a coach for a tank season. We should have brought back Eddie Jordan!

Relax. Noone can win more than 20-25 wins with this team...

Listen to the press conference

ESPN is doing some summer predictions to get traffic

Their worst three teams in the NBA

Sixers - 20/62
Phoenix - 22/60
Orlando - 24/58

Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Aug 20 at 11:49

The Dwight Howard deal really worked out well for everybody, didn't it? I guess Denver and the Lakers made out best, each getting 1 season from a former all-star.

I think saying it will take Brown over 4 years to get over .500 is ludicrous. Don't get me wrong that shouldnt be the goal but you are vastly over-rating the league. The Sixers could be over .500 by 2014-2015 season if Noel pans out and they get Wiggins, Randle, Gordon, or Parker.

Matt reply to KH on Aug 20 at 13:01

I think Brian's referring to Brown's cumulative coaching record. Even with optimistic growth in years 2-4, it's hard to see Brown reaching .500 until year 5.

buke reply to Matt on Aug 21 at 11:30

If you are referring to cumulative coaching record, that is a pretty good estimate, but "cumulative" coaching record isn't what matters much at this point. If the Sixers don't have a .500 season until five years from now, then that should be more than enough evidence to consider this experiment a failure.

buke reply to KH on Aug 20 at 17:45

That would surprise me. Durant's team had two bad years after drafting him and Lebron's had one anyway. Granted they do have money for free agents next summer but I'm not sure how much of it will be spent then.

Also I think the feelings being expressed about Noel are ludicrous as well. The kid will play a lot this year. He will be back before Christmas mark my words. If you know anything about Nerlens Noel is that he loves to play the game of basketball. All reports are that his rehab is going well. His injury was way less severe then Derrick Roses. They will not be sitting him extra months to tank games. They will still be awful even if he plays and plays fairly well. Usually I love this blog but I think some of the stuff being said in this particular post is way out there.

Did you listen do the Brett Brown press conference? He was excited about him, but he certainly didn't sound like a guy who expects to see Noel soon. And i don't think that has anything to do with his work ethic, severity of the injury or his love for the game. They just won't rush him and will force him to take his time and get in the best shape possible before stepping on the floor.

Nerlen's highlights from two years ago. I like how he's able to put the ball on the floor- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZSd-cn2DBA

Seanzybillups reply to Stan on Aug 21 at 14:01

Those are some high percentage baskets. Does have any mid-range to speak of? Seeing him handle the ball kinda reminds me of Durant.....maybe just bc he is tall and lanky. No way is he even in Durant's league offensively.

Memphis has traded guard Tony Wroten to the 76ers for a future second round pick, league source tells Y! Sports.

You know what they say, "You can never have enough perimeter players who can't shoot!"

The Wroten deal is - Wroten to Philly for 2014 2nd Rd pick (Top 50 protected) ... they traded him for nothing aka (flexibility)

Hah! And they always say that you can't get something for nothing.

Stan reply to buke on Aug 22 at 19:11

But the Sixers got nothing for nothing.

buke reply to Stan on Aug 22 at 19:34

Well they did need more guards and he is supposed to be a good ball handler anyway. The Sixers may set this century's record for lowest backcourt field goal percentage. On the other hand, their bigs could have a banner year in grabbing offensive rebounds.

I like Wroten. He has potential. And he cost literally nothing.

buke reply to Xsago on Aug 22 at 19:38

If they are committed to being bad, then this is exactly the type of player they should be auditioning this year: a young player with previously forecasted upside who has declined in value and won't get enough chances with a competitive team.

not a bad move at all. Wroten was a 1st rd pick in 2012. just picking up another asset.

Believe it or not, i am actually more confident in Wroten than in MCW to develop into a good player. But MCW is still an unknown quantity so i might be very wrong.

Sixers still have like $10 mill in roster space they have to use just to reach the salary cap minimum. i have no clue who else they're targeting.

they dont need to reach the salary floor til the end of the season and if they dont there arent any severe penalties

ahh didn't realize that, thanks. guess it makes sense to just pick up an expiring contract at some point over the course of the season as buke mentioned

buke reply to Mike on Aug 24 at 13:46

I guess everyone wonders how that shortfall will be resolved. My own guess is that, at the moment, they aren't targeting anyone with much of a price tag. From what I understand, the determination of whether a team meets the minimum salary requirements is done at the end of the year. If that is the case, they could always meet that shortfall by taking in a larger expiring contract sometime during the season.

If we don't count Kazemi but count all of the other players who were picked up during the offseason by various means, they now have thirteen players on the roster in the month or so before camp. Two of those players (Richardson and Noel) are injured. My guess is that they pick up one more guard, but that player may just be someone who is picked from those free agents receiving preseason camp invites.

I don't think this is just about losing. Young player development is probably also a factor. If the front office really wants to see MC Williams and Wroten get extensive opportunities, getting a player with enough stature to lock-in a position ahead of one of them would be counterproductive to that goal.

There's a certain Canadian dude out in LA who might be the ideal teacher for those two no?

If they end up short of the salary floor, the difference is distributed amongst the players under contract. So it does not cost the team anything more than if they had been at the floor.

Think of it as a tankers bonus to the players who had to fight shorthanded all season.

Stan reply to tk76 on Aug 26 at 11:59

I'd rather have them spend that money. Maybe take on the contract of Gerald Wallace, David Lee, Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash, Landry Fields, Nene, or Kendrick Perkins for 1st round picks.

Nene and an unprotected 1st round pick for Spencer Hawes. Do you think that the Wizards would make that trade? They can use that cap space to overpay for Pau Gasol and Rudy Gay.

ahh but which of those moves can they do without making the team better enough to actually win games?

ojr107 reply to das411 on Aug 26 at 17:06

I don't think Perkins or Gerald Wallace makes us any better.

Hard to say. I would not risk their chances in locking down a top 4 pick this year (meaning finishing with a bottom 2 record.) Then the following season would be a good time to make those types of moves you describe.

That way you ideally get your franchise star and then surround them with as much talent as soon as possible (both additional #1's and solid vet role players.) You don't want to draft a star and then lose them later because it took too long to add talent around them.

Bottom 2 record only guarantees you a top 5 pick.

Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.

There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?

Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.

There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?

Stan reply to tk76 on Aug 28 at 18:23

My gut says that Boston is going to win the lottery.

The guy I keep hearing about for next year's draft is Emmanuel Mudiay. He's going to be a high school senior and he already committed to Southern Methodist University. Odd.

buke reply to Stan on Aug 29 at 11:40

Not odd at all. Larry Brown is the coach of SMU.

Well i've heard people refer to Jahlil Okafor as the successor of Shaq, Bynum and the host of older great true post centers. He's the prohibitve no.1 pick as of right now. I guess it will be a fairly strong draft as it should have at least 2-3 players with star potential (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns) as well as the players from this class that will decide to stay in school for another year. I'm almost certain that there will be at least one of the top prospects that will stay for his sophomore year.

Btw, all in all i think it's fair to say the Sixers are very likely to get a top 3-4 pick in next years draft, regardless of their actual position in the end.

eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Aug 28 at 22:58

Depending on who we get at the top of this upcoming draft of course, the player in the '15 draft class that I would love, love, love to end up with is Justin Jackson. Man, I really really like this kid's game. His IQ and levelheadedness at his current age is astounding to me, without even mentioning his physical and athleticism attributes.

Justin Jackson to the Sixers in '15! (on the wing beside Wiggins or Parker obviously)

I have a premonition we're going to get the #2 pick in the lottery, or somehow have a better record than Orlando or Boston or someone, and spend the whole lottery-to-draft period, or the whole season, arguing with you about whether we should take Parker with the second pick. So let me just stake my ground now and say that I don't even see Parker as a top 5 pick in this draft.

Sixers have agreed in principle to hire up and coming Grizzlies assistant coach Lloyd Pierce to a similar position, source told Y! Sports.

Ehhh, i hate that Butler to Milwaukee trade. Now the Sixers are not the only tanking team in the league with cap space to absorb terrible players/contracts for picks...

Memphis waived fab melo

not a huge fan of him but wouldnt mind if the sixers claimed him

Philadelphia has hired Chad Iske as an assistant coach, source tells Y! Iske built great rep for player development under George Karl.

Another player development guy. Nice.

Positive news: at least the Sixers new coach didn't get a DUI this weekend!

Mike reply to Brian on Aug 31 at 18:00

that was my first thought when i saw that

Who was the best center the Sixers had since Wilt?

TwoSense reply to Stan on Sep 2 at 11:20

Moses, obviously.

Stan reply to TwoSense on Sep 2 at 11:32

I thought of him as more of a PF

TwoSense reply to Stan on Sep 2 at 11:47

He was listed as a C his whole career sans one early year in the ABA. Incredible rebounder, double-doubles nightly were a given.

Charlie H reply to TwoSense on Sep 3 at 19:50

With Houston, Moses started at forward because Billy Paultz was the starting center. On the Sixers he was strictly a center. Caldwell Jones was traded (for him), as was DD, so they didn't have a true 5 they could start. I think he was most effective at the 4 because he shot more jumpers and still was an animal in the paint. He was a better shooter than people remember.

Caldwell was better than Sam. Overall I'd say he was a better defender than Mutumbo but didn't bring the intimidation factor. Have to put Theo ahead of all three. Was Mutombo really better than Theo? In spite of his many flaws, I would rank Dawkins third. He was just a much better player than Mutombo.

Caldwell Jones

And don't forget Johnny Kerr.

Matt reply to Stan on Sep 3 at 9:20

If you're throwing out Moses, it's 35-year-old Mutombo followed by Dalembert. Are you trying to get us all depressed?

buke reply to Matt on Sep 3 at 13:14

What! No Manute Bol or Shawn Bradley? No mention of Christian Welp?

Agree with Mutombo behind Moses. Don't think I agree with Dalembert as #3. I'd take the young Theo in that spot. Caldwell Jones wasn't far behind Dalembert. And based on entertainment value alone, I'd take Daryl Dawkins over Dalembert. Dalembert was very sturdy as a Sixer, though. He didn't miss very many games after his first year.

tk76 reply to buke on Sep 3 at 13:22

From interview:

"Q: Is Philadelphia a good basketball city?
Gminski: I think it’s a football city at its core, and when the Phillies are good they are followed, so the 76ers are probably third. The Flyers have their fervent 20,000 who come out every game, it seems like. My time there did not end well [Gminski played for the 76ers from ‘88-91]. I was a great player at my old contract, but when I signed a bigger contract, I wasn’t nearly as good, even though I was the same player, and I got run out of there. WIP is the sports talk radio, and it is just brutal. Now, when I go back, it’s like, "You’re the greatest. We loved you when you were here, G-Man." I think, "Where were you in ’90 when I was getting killed?"


Stan reply to tk76 on Sep 3 at 17:24

haha. He did a pretty decent job of describing this fanbase without using the words "assholes" and "fairweather"

Yeah, diplomatic and pretty much spot on. I'm always baffled by how so many fans dislike a player based on their contract- as opposed to blaming the GM. I can see how having an overpaid player is bad for the team, but it is not a reason to hate a player.

buke reply to tk76 on Sep 3 at 14:46

You're right. I did completely forget about Gminski. Maybe because he played during one of those "in-between" Sixers eras where they were neither good enough nor bad enough to be particularly memorable. Although his best years were before coming here, he still should rank as one of the better Sixer centers post-Wilt.

Tom Moore on Sep 2 at 21:00

Story: Sam Hinkie on 2013-14 Sixers: 'Everyone starts with a blank slate'


Looks like the Suns are releasing Beasley.

Pair him up with Turner and LOOK OUT EASTERN CONFERENCE!!!!

stonedeightytoo reply to joeykey on Sep 3 at 18:49

more like look out kitchen cabinets of eastern conference

Tray reply to Mike on Sep 4 at 14:21

I love Bodner's draft work, but he's under investigation, not "allegedly" under investigation. He allegedly assaulted this woman; that doesn't make the fact of the investigation itself an allegation too. Even if you're not sure whether he's under investigation or not, the right word there would be reportedly, not allegedly. TMZ didn't "allege" that White was under investigation, it reported it.

Until there's an on the record confirmation from the police, TMZ reported an alleged investigation.

Regardless, that's extremely pedantic.

So you've not spoken to Tray before then?

Tom Moore on Sep 4 at 15:47

Report: Royce White being investigated for alleged domestic assault:


"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"

"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"

"That's two, two - two mints in one!"

stan reply to Dollar Bill on Sep 4 at 20:52

Are you OK?

Much better than your in utero Samenty-Sixers. Thanks for your kind inquiry. Now go play on traffic.

correction: IN traffic (the power of the underrated preposition prevails)

Stan reply to Dollar Bill on Sep 4 at 22:17

Stan's Diner menu: proxy intelligence, organic stupidity, corned beef hash, sufferin' succotash. Daily Special: possum cutlet & grits.

Hey - sorry for putting this here - but every little bit helps - my brother in law is a teacher in the philadlephia public school system and he needs books for his students and the school district doesn't have / won't give him the money for these 'consumable' books, so my sister set up this 'charitable crowd funding' thing (something i was recently talking about with friends needing to exist) to help raise the money to get his books. If any of you can help at all it would be greatly appreciated, or just pass it along to people you might know who might be willing to help. He's already 1/3 of the way to the goal


(Brian - if you want to delete this I'll understand)


buke reply to GoSixers on Sep 5 at 13:15

Actually, this is your best post ever. Even I'll give a few bucks.

Every little bit helps

i already know i'm gonna get it, because i'm an idiot, but all you outta town 76er fans - are you gonna get league pass this season? i'm pretending i'm thinking about not getting it. but i know i'm gonna feel like a weird sucker, paying to root against the sixers every nite. sheesh.

1. Thanks for the donation joey - very cool of you :)

2. I didn't get it last year, I don't know if I'll get it this year. If I do get it - I wouldn't be 'rooting' for them to lose - I just wouldn't care if they won or lost I'd be focused on the guys who matter (very few on the roster this year) long term for the success of the sixers. I think I might look into investing in some college games instead since they are more relevant to the sixers going forward than their actual record on the court :)

The NFL package automatically renewed for me. If I have to actively stop that from happening for the NBA, I probably won't.

If you don't tell them you don't want auto renew than the NBA package does auto renew - my cable company sends me a letter a couple weeks before telling me about it - but even then - after I tell them I don't want auto renew - they still have renewed it in the past :)

buke reply to joeykey on Sep 5 at 13:58

That's an interesting question. League Pass (whether TV or broadband) rolls over each season if you don't take the action to cancel it. Part of me doesn't want to waste my money, or more importantly, time watching the Sixers this season. But part of me just can't resist viewing at least part of the debacle. In the end I might just take the passive way and allow myself to be suckered.

What Market do you live in?

I get 4 sixer games (two clipper two laker games) a year no matter what - and I figure that's more than enough :)

buke reply to GoSixers on Sep 5 at 14:13


But, you're right. A few Sixers games a year lately would be more than enough and that will probably never be truer than this year. In the latter half of last season, I probably skipped more than half of the games and felt better for it.

However, if I do want to catch a Sixers win this season, undoubtedly that will require much more consistent game watching until one happens. I will take some interest in the earlier games just to see what the hell, if anything, Brown can manage to squeeze from this team.

Ah the midwest - i often miss it quite a bit - but hey - one of those sixer wins this year could come against the T'wolves.

I just think depending on the budget for spending on things like this - popping some money down on specific college games might be more 'positive' as a sixer fan as you project who they might pick (then again, there's a lot more free options on the games)

Does the NBA sell individual games yet? Maybe buy every 10th games to see how they're progressing

I'm a little concerned, honestly. I used to watch every inning of every Yankee game until last year. Life just sort of intervened, I wasn't crazy about the direction the team was headed, so I just didn't set the time aside anymore. This year, I've watched maybe 5 games, maybe. Have a feeling that if I don't watch religiously, and sort of plan for it and make sure the time is carved out, I'll wind up not watching much at all this year and that might be the end of it. It's a big commitment to watch all the games.

Life does have a way of getting in the way if you can't devote your full 'professional' time to it - I know all about that - and I don't even have kids like you do - just an extremely over bearing job and some of my own life issues causing distraction - I think I watched 5 sixers games last year - sometimes I think the benefit of my adhd is that my interests come and go and when i decide to focus on something I will - but i can leave it a lone for a while and still have the interest when I come back.

Watching all the games when they start 90 minutes before you even get home from work is a pain as well :)

Sure. How else am I going to be able to watch the Pelicans?

Oh come on - you don't really need to WATCH the pelicans you just need to check the box score to make sure they're maintaining their spot in 7th 'place' :)

Pretty sure they're making the playoffs.

I'm not sure of that at all...I'm pretty sure they won't be top 5 in the lottery - but that's about it

w/out analyzing their team, that's how things usually work out for the Sixers. They'll also probably win their last 5 or 6 meaningless games and drop to like the 6th-worst record and the coach will be gushing about the great strides they made in the second half of the season, led by the emergence of Evan Turner, who will then receive a max extension.

Oh i was talking about the hornets - not the sixers.

You're a bit (ok a lot) jaded by the nonsense of the last few years (decades), so I see what made you say that, but I'm confident that it's a 'brand new day' and that sixers recent history will in no way inform going forward - or jrue holiday would still be here

actually, i was talking about the pelicans (making the playoffs) and the sixers (winning the meaningless games to screw themselves out of wiggins).

Gotcha - maybe for the first part of the sixers season you could focus on the eagles - o wait - tht won't work either :)

Stan reply to Brian on Sep 6 at 0:11

I can see them making the playoffs. I see 6 teams that are clearly better than them- Thunder, Clippers, Grizzlies, Rockets, Warriors, and Spurs. The other two spots will be a 6 team race between the Mavs, Lakers, Timberwolves, Blazers, Nuggets, and Pelicans.

I'm probably going to follow the Pelicans as a fan. I'll root for them, but still have a reason to be pleased if they lose. I like watching a team on the rise who is hopefully learning how to win (although hopefully not too quickly.) I think that is more exciting then watching an established team where you expect them to perform.

Maybe in a couple of years the Sixers will be back on the rise. But for this year too many of the Sixers will be irrelevant- in that they won't be ion the team in 2 years. i want to see Noel develop, and don't expect MCW to ever amount to anything, so that leaves zero future Sixers when you look at their opening day roster. But I can enjoy watching Jrue finally get to play on a team with both shooters and an athletic big.

Stan reply to tk76 on Sep 6 at 0:17

I'm rooting against them. I'm kind of jealous of how they were able to get rid of Ariza and Okafur's contracts. How they were able to get the #1 pick during a year in which one of the best prospects at the C position entered the draft and how they were saved from the Chris Paul trade. I want them to suffer for a year or two before they get really good.

I have to pick some team to watch this year. The draft pick part sort of complicates it, but I'm not sure what other team would hold my interest. I don't like watching the other really good teams- it makes me feel like a bandwagon fan. But I do like watching an up and coming team with players who are starting to break out.

Drew reply to tk76 on Sep 11 at 9:45

That is bull Crap. why are the sixers not on the rise also. why not watch your home team Rise. Everybody should root for the pelican to Losr. Then Sixers can get a better pick.

And if the pelicans lose so much they get a top 5 pick the sixers don't get the pick.

Do you understand what the sixers are trying to do with their roster next season?

tk76 reply to Drew on Sep 11 at 11:47

Yeah, I am clearly a fair weather Sixer fan. I've watched about 95% of their games over the last 20 years, but will maybe watch 50% this year. I'm sure Hinkie will understand and forgive given the product.

Good question. I haven't decided yet, but i think i'll renew it. I want to see if one of the young guys shows some promise and i'll probably find another team to root for in the meantime. I already like the Timberwolves because of Rubio and Love anyway and i might follow the Pelicans now as well...

I read some of the comments on this page. so much negativity toward your team. This team is tryin to rebuild. how the hell do many expect this to happen. which superstar will come to Philly. maybe Evan turner will be more mature nd comfortable this year. maybe he will live up to his own High expectation. Go sixers

There used to be a lot of high expectations, especially in the upper level of the Spectrum.

Evan Turner hasn't yet earned quotation marks. Could this be the year? His way is now paved.

Thad is a positive. The new coach seems like he means it. Plenty of seats from which to choose on game nights. You're right. It's not all bad. Roman Gabriel and the Fire High Gang wasn't built in a day!

Drew reply to Dollar Bill on Sep 6 at 15:40

I will watch every game this Year. i work for comcast in Colorado. i am happy that i watch my team. I think the fans should get behind this young team. imagine if they get two more players in next draft. then the bandwagon will be filled.

Relevant to the 76ers I guess...

I was just reading a True Hoop article in which they mention "The Oklahoma City Model" as a proper and recognized strategy. That cracks me up. It's called tanking. It has always been called tanking. Teams in all professional sports that have a draft tank. Granted, the Thunder have had tremendous success by tanking and have built a perennial contender, but to give their GM credit for inventing that strategy is beyond ridiculous. You could also call it "The Charlotte Model", no?

Mike reply to joeykey on Sep 6 at 13:52

more than anything OKC got lucky in getting the #2 instead of #1 pick that particular year. which is even more insane considering how bad most #2 picks have been recently. just check this list out:


I'd absolutely love it if they signed Beasley and traded for D. Williams. Possibly picked up Thabeet as well. Get as many bust #2 picks as possible in preparation for getting the #2 pick in the upcoming draft.

Mike reply to Brian on Sep 6 at 14:22

lol. i actually think D. Williams is salvageable in the right situation. problem is he has no true position, similar to another #2 bust we all know.

I think there are two types of tanking. One is intentionally throwing games by holding out your best players in order to lose. This happens on occasion when seeding or specific lottery positioning is at stake. Holding out an injured player through a "lost season" like what the Spurs did with DRobinson prior to getting Duncan also qualifies. IMO this is both smart and acceptable, as teams need to do what is in their best interest- but not everyone would agree.

The Sixers represent something different- in that they are doing a full rebuild. I'm not sure why this is considered tanking. They have stripped away everything that is irrelevant to their future and the resultant team will lose a lot on merit. The NBA rightly rewards this with a higher pick to help the process along. I don't see any requirement (moral or otherwise) that a team that is rebuilding has to add players that will maintain some short term respectability. This would be like telling someone who is renovating their home that they have to put in a temporary kitchen after tearing out the old one. There is noth wrong with gutting a home before putting in the upgrades.


It's considered tanking because the average sports fan doesn't want to bother with nuance. You traded away your best player, you're not signing 'names' who people think can play (even if they're only replacement level) you must be trying to lose on purpose.

There is nuance between tanking and rebuilding that most don't want to see. Pelton at ESPN tries very hard during his (very long) chats to try and explain the difference, but many don't want to hear it

Tray reply to GoSixers on Sep 7 at 23:46

I mean, we are trying to lose a lot of games this year on purpose, although we had other reasons to do what we've done.

Stan reply to tk76 on Sep 6 at 17:48

True. But like Joeykey said, the term "OKC Model" is kind of annoying. They're not doing anything new or revolutionary.

Indiana is the team that I'm really impressed with. No one on their roster is a top 5 pick and they didn't go out and sign some major free agent. They've built a great team by making good draft picks and developing their players.

Roy Hibbert was a shitty college player who entered the league overweight and with conditioning issues. Paul George was the 10th pick despite coming from Fresno State, Lance Stephenson was a 2nd round pick, George Hill was acquired in a trade, and David West was signed despite having injury issues. Even Danny Granger who hasn't been playing was the #17 pick.

What's also impressive is that the guys they drafted didn't have immediate success in the NBA. I think Indiana did a really good job with their training staff.

I guess the only mistake Indiana made was drafting Tyler Hansbrough over Jrue Holiday.

Mike reply to Stan on Sep 6 at 17:59

yep. Hibbert has surprised me the most, because i thought he was an absolute stiff at Georgetown. it's remarkable what their staff has done with him. and Paul George will probably be a top 10 player in the league this season. they're legit contenders in my mind.

This is the article you were referencing? http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62298/whats-up-with-the-milwaukee-bucks

I don't see how the Pacers can be a blueprint.

This anti-tanking article is cited: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40055/does-tanking-even-work

I don't buy the assertions in this at all. Basically there is the premise that bad teams hardly every become great. And that is true- becasue only a few generational superstars win almost all of the titles. But IMO that just reinforces how hard it is to win in the NBA and that you have to put yourself in a position to get lucky.

So the choice for the Sxiers since the end of the Iverson era has been either to have zero chance at a title but a decent chance at building towards 50 wins or do what they are doing now. And now they historically have only a 12% chance of getting really good in the next decade (ouch)- which means Hinkie is taking a big gamble with his own career- bit IMO still doing the right thing for the Sixers.

Just saw the Sixers might be interested in Boobie Gibson and some 35-year-old rookie.

They need to find their Willie Burton.

Stan reply to Brian on Sep 6 at 16:53

Remember when the Sixers signed Lee Nailon and he ended up being arrested later that year for beating up his wife? The Sixers were desperate to get rid of him so they traded him to Cleveland along with a 2nd round pick in exchange for a protected 2nd round pick that they never got. Cleveland used that 2nd round pick to draft Boobie Gibson. If the sign him I guess it will be like they lost nothing in that trade.

Brian S. on Sep 7 at 8:26

Last year had a 10 game plan costing $138 per ticket. The recent invoice received for this year indicates $188 per ticket. A 36% increase to watch a diminished product. Not buying it and have to question the business model.

That's hilarious. You should send a response asking them why they would expect you to pay more considering the moves they made this summer. See if you get a response.

Maybe they should be required to distribute at least some of the money they are beneath the salary floor to ticket holders. That would almost make too much sense.

Mike reply to Brian S. on Sep 8 at 8:58

for the same seats? that's almost unheard of even for a team who just won a title.

ojr107 reply to Brian S. on Sep 8 at 11:25

To be fair- The games they raised the Prices for are against, the Heat(2), Knicks(2), Nets(2) OKC(1), LAL(1), LAC(1), and Pelicans(Yeah, why they are thrown into the big game plan, I have no idea)

So your not really paying more to see the Sixers, your paying more to see the top opponents in the league. Since new ownership has taken over, they have been gradually raising the price to see top opponents and lowering the price/offering specials to see the teams no one wants to see, which makes sense.

but increasing prices by 50% (same thing happened to me) to sell an inferior product does not exactly seem like the best way to fill the building and/or grow the STH base...at least the Celtics have been demoted out of big game

Stan reply to das411 on Sep 8 at 12:05

I guess their philosophy is that no one is going to attend a Sixers game unless they want to watch the opposing team. They might as well make as much money as they can from their major income source.

Brian s. on Sep 8 at 19:33

The problem is even though you are paying to watch the other team play they may sit their stars or limit their playing time this season versus the Sixers. Whats the point of watching mismatches against the better teams in the league. Th entertainment value still comes from having competitive games.

Stan reply to Brian s. on Sep 8 at 20:15

People are going to come in to see Lebron, Wade, Melo, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, Deron and KG play. It's not always about competitive basketball. How often do you get to watch Lebron play in-person?

I'm at the UK alumni game. Wall and Davis are playing; Cousins and Noel came to "coach.". Noel is wearing a vest over a throwback Phillies t-shirt. He's skinny, ambulatory, and pretty boyish. He dribbles a basketball on the bench and was the only alum who couldn't stop fidgeting during the national anthem. He's also really bored by the game. Cousins, unsurprisingly, is really into it, screaming instructions at his team's players cross-court and hanging his head when his team misses shots or Josh Harrelson makes one. He also throws t-shirts into the stands during timeouts. As for the game, Wall is outplaying Brandon Knight, and Kidd-Gilchrist looks like a completely worthless offensive player even in a game played at a quarter of the effort of an all-star game. Calipari just made a speech about donating the million in ticket sales they raised in the game and still seems like a sleazy creep. I'm not sure that Noel has said a word to anyone all game, although maybe that's because all his teammates are still on the team or didn't come (Archie Goodwin). Cousins is very upset that his team is losing and is heatedly discussing this with Eric Bledsoe. Then he forcibly lifted Patrick Patterson out of his chair to get him in the game, although I don't think Patterson is on Cousins's team. Now they're taking pictures at center court of giant charitable check presentations. Noel is so bored he tried to duck out after they shot the first picture. Now he's literally pacing around the group and hovering three feet behind all the other players. He doesn't exactly come across as mature.

Mike reply to Tray on Sep 10 at 7:14

well he's like 19 right?

Mike reply to Tray on Sep 10 at 7:15

also not sure an offseason alumni scrimmage where he's not even playing is the best place to measure his maturity

Tray reply to Mike on Sep 10 at 13:48

That's true, but he just seemed so shy and introverted. It was strange to see. Sometimes Wall or Cousins would try to politely engage him in a conversation, and he would talk for a minute and then go back to staring into space.

I'd prefer if all Sixers prospects ignored Cousins and Wall whenever possible.

Lets put it this way: I would very much prefer shy (Noel) over crazy (Cousins). I don't think there are any issues character wise with Noel.

Tray reply to Xsago on Sep 11 at 14:56

Oh certainly. It was amusing to see Cousins pacing the sidelines as a coach; it was kind of like this bizarro world where his personality flaws were strengths. Sort of like how Mark Jackson went from being the world's most annoying announcer to a really great motivational coach without really changing anything about his personality.

Anonymous on Sep 10 at 9:36

Chad Ford has a very early mock draft for the next draft including projections of who will be picking where


Stan reply to Anonymous on Sep 10 at 14:27

He has New Orleans picking 11th which I would be thrilled with. I have a feeling that a lot of these guys like Jabari Parker, Chris Walker, and Dante Exum might not enter the draft next year.

Bookkeeping: League sources say Sixers have hired Brandon Williams from league office for key position under GM Sam Hinkie.

Rod Thorn 2.0!

I wouldn't trust the jackass that wrote that.

from 'passionate intense proud' to 'we refuse no refuse'

wouldn't pay $188 for a 10 gm plan; time value, gas & parking costs have to be factored along with rubbish on court (thad excluded)

big gm plan: come see our chumps get chumped by the prestigious; slobber over other cities' fortunes; learn to appreciate 3Q starts home

the gilded age is surfacing

Call me crazy, but I think the central is going to be a 3-team race and Detroit has a chance to win the division. A pretty good chance, actually. You aren't going to be able to score on them.

I don't think there is any way Detroit finishes ahead of Chicago and Indiana.

Depends mostly on how Drummond's production works in a full-time role as the starting 5. But with Smith at the three, Jennings and the point and Drummond at the 5, really doesn't matter who's at the 2 and 4, they can defend anyone. Don't think their offense will be very good, and I'm not sold on Mo as a head coach after his time in Philly, but they've got some really good defensive pieces and they've got size. Better size than IND IMO. No idea what to expect from Chicago, other than Deng playing 45 minutes/game as Thibs tries to wring every last molecule of productivity out of him in his walk year.

I think Drummond is very good talent, but is far from leading a team to the top of the conference. He is not even ready to be a full time starter IMO. First he needs to learn how to shoot FTs or he won't even be on the floor for more than 25 minutes. Right now he is not that different from say DeAndre Jordan. He needs time. The sky is the limit though.

Anyone know date that training camp starts?

A quick web search I found an announcement that the Bulls training camp starts September 27th

I couldn't find a note on when the sixers pre-season starts - but I did find this

The Sixers will appear in seven exhibition contests this fall, beginning on Sunday, October 6 (12PM EST) with a game against ACB League club Bilbao Basket in Bilbao, Spain.

I'd say training camp probably starts the week of the 23rd?

Don't know. Communication blackout remains. Could be marketing dept's obverse tactic to tease fan with coin into blind ticket purchase or maybe Dr. Fish, team consultant, prescribed prolonged silence for a full Collins cleanse. Dr. No was more transparent than New Sixers.

As far as i know, training camps for all teams ALWAYS start on the 1st of October. It's like a rule imposed by the league or something...

I was just checking out Facebook for some unknown reason, and I noticed the Sixers official FB page is promoting the big game plan, with a picture of Jrue in a Pelicans uniform. Kind of ironic. "Come see our best player...remember, the guy we traded away!"

I for one am pretty excited for 20 dollar courtside seats this year. Maybe 15 dollars pre-Noel.

Courtside is always awesome, but courtside in Philly has basically none of the bells and whistles they have pretty much everywhere else. You get access to a cash bar and overpriced waitress service. Everywhere else you get access to free food and non-alcoholic drinks, VIP entrance, etc. They just do everything wrong in Philly.

MikeW reply to Brian on Sep 11 at 15:33

Well last year I got to hear Evan Turner discuss with his friend (sitting next to me)where they were going to booze that night, so there's always that. Yeah it is ridiculous though, the allure of courtside is purely in how easy it is to see and hear everything on the court. The bells and whistles are next to nothing besides the more comfortable seats.

Mike reply to Brian on Sep 11 at 19:06

i think it depends what kind of courtside seats you have. for my birthday this year my girl hooked it up and they included free food and drinks at the Lexus Club. neither of us knew so we had to ask one of the dudes down there. he marked our tix, gave us a wristband, and we ordered whatever we wanted. it might be better in other arenas but for us it was pretty much the most amazing night ever.

SixersRising on Sep 14 at 8:48

This is good news for me. If my team is going to lose, I'd at least like to watch local guys I like get a chance.

Going to sign up for League Pass broadband. I'll take the 5 team option, but still undecided on my 5 teams. ack in the late 80's and early 90's I used to follow the Suns (KJ/Chambers/EJ/Hornecek/Thunder Dan) and Seattle (Kemp/Payton/Schemph/XMan/Peirce/EJ/Chambers/Ellis

These next few years I want to become more a broader fan of the game, so hope to find some teams on the rise. I really dislike the Miami/Boston/LAC type teams that were constructed from established stars. And for some reason don't really enjoy OKC.

So the Sixers, Pelicans and 3 other teams (+ Bulls who are on local TV.) What formerly bad team will win 45-50 games this year?

ojr107 reply to tk76 on Sep 16 at 18:45

how much cheaper is the 5 team option? I can't seam to find on the league pass page.

tk76 reply to ojr107 on Sep 16 at 19:52

The 5 team option is on the league pass broadband page. I think it is forty dollars less. Not a big deal, but I generally only watch the success out the national games, so I might as well take the savings. Then again maybe I'll just splurge for the cable package to make it more reliable on the big screen.

buke reply to tk76 on Sep 17 at 10:49

I used to have the cable option but after two seasons it seemed wasteful to me because I found I really didn't have the interest in watching that many teams. In addition, they only have one HD channel (at least they did) and, if I only have a modest interest in watching the teams, I'd rather just watch the games offered on the national HD channels. I also like the ability to watch archived games on the broadband package.

For the five teams (they gave seven a couple of years ago), I pick the Sixers and usually ones that are rarely shown on the national channels.

Court_visioN reply to tk76 on Sep 16 at 18:48

Warriors should be fun to watch. Timberwolves are a good league pass team assuming Rubio/Love stays healthy. I assume you'd want an east coast team for the last one just to balance things out a little but I can't think of an east coast team that's really worth watching. Maybe New York for the lol-factor. Otherwise, Houston's probably a good team to watch too.

Good suggestions. I have to refresh my memory of who has been traded to get a better sense of these teams.

GoSixers reply to tk76 on Sep 16 at 22:01

Without blake griffin the clippers wouldn't be much - they have one 'established' star...not sure I'd dismiss them because of that

The Warriors are a trendy team I expect to take a big step back this year (too many injury prone players need to stay healthy)

Pacers maybe? They fit your criteria? Orlando is one of them young up and coming teams people want to talk about.

The Wolves being healthy would be nice

I think the Rockets could be a nice comedy this year, I don't expect Dwight being any happier in Houston where Harden is the center than he did in LA with Kobe.

Cleveland? Irving is supposedly fun to watch

What exactly type of team do you want to watch? Wouldn't you like to watch at least one contending team?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Sep 17 at 13:03

I'll still mostly watch the Sixers and maybe Pelicans. I figure the contents will be in national TV enough to get my fill.

I do like watching good teams, but teens that are full of older vets who made their names on previous teams are less interesting for some reason. That is what I meant by Miami, LAC and formerly Boston. In the beginning it is interesting to see how these teams mesh, but after that I lose interest because I already sort of know what to expect from the players.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Sep 17 at 13:04

Contents should read contenders

If you can stand the color purple, a Northwestern season ticket will supply the opportunities to see Big 10 (or 11 or 12) powers and to pick Doug's brain for Sixers saga nuggets when he appears in the corridor.

I would definitely go if I lived in that side of town. I'm more in Kane County Cougar country.

Can understand your reluctance. There's not much opportunity for cruise control between St. Charles & north shore. It be a little busy.

Some suggestions:

1. Timberwolves - Rubio in an Adelman system. Always fun to watch. And they also check the "criminally underrated" point.

2. Pelicans - Holiday + Davis. A definite must watch.

2. Warriors - Iguodala + Curry. Will probably be exciting.

3. Grizzlies - A chance to watch completely different type of basketball. And they'll be good. Really good.

4. Rockets - Who knows what Morey has up his sleeves. This is a high risk/reward pick :)

5. Hawks - Exciting changes similar to the ones in Philly are going on in Atlanta. They could be both progressive and good. Also a chance to finally see Mike Budenholzer coach.

formerly bad team with a chance to win 45-50 games =

Detroit Pistons

even if they suck they should be really fun to watch

Yeah, I'd definitely pick Detroit.

Jfp reply to Brian on Sep 17 at 17:41

Nobody picks Cleveland so they can watch Bynum play? Oh, wait. . .

tk76 reply to Jfp on Sep 17 at 20:38

I'm tempted to pick Cleveland, but I don't want to hear about Bynum. That team really has an interesting frontcourt *when healthy. Bynm, Varajao, Thompson, Bennett and Zeller.

I reviewed the new depth charts at http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nba.aspx
I can see why the sixers are tanking so hard- as there are some legitimately bad teams out there that will be a challenge to separate from. the Sixers lack talent, but they likely won't be nearly as dysfunctional as some teams, so i guess we will have to see how it plays out.

So I'll go with Sixers, Pelicans, Pistons, Warriors and maybe the Wolves. That must be the strangest/worst 5 teams ever selected on League Pass. Maybe I'll go with 1 good team for my sanity.

Don't worry both the Warriors and the Wolves have a pretty good chance of winning 50+ games.

New Orleans Pelicans: nickname ranks with ones of ABA...Anaheim Amigos, Oakland Oaks, Memphis Tams, Baltimore Claws, Minnesota Muskies, San Diego Conquistadors/Sails, Pittsburgh Condors.

Delightfully whimsical name but logo has "militarized" the enchantingly goofy water bird. Jackie Moon disapproves of graphic.

The NBA begins and ends with the Boston Celtics. Can't dial them out!

FYI, Sixers training camp starts in 10 days.

tk76 reply to MikeW on Sep 18 at 10:55

Which will more resemble a summer basketball camp. I don't remember even the mid 90's teams being as low profile as this squad. Although I guess Spoon, Dumas and Barros were not much better.

Bynum drama already starting in CLE

"Drama" implies movement or action. What has he done?

John Kuester, former Pistons coach, rumored as the new top assistant under Brett Brown.

Mike reply to Xsago on Sep 20 at 14:24

didn't he already name 3?

Well i don't think there's a limit to the coaching staff. You can have as many assistant coaches as you want to. Most teams have at least 4 i think. Anyway Kuester is rumored to be the top guy under Brown. Other signed assistants include: Lloyd Pierce, Chad Iske, and Greg Foster with Billy Lange as a possibility as well.

Mike reply to Xsago on Sep 22 at 10:07

they just named another one from the Villanova staff too though, Billy Lange. he was the head coach of Navy for 7 years before working as Jay Wright's associate head coach the past 2 seasons.

Mike reply to Xsago on Sep 22 at 10:07

oops didn't see you mentioned Lange too

nice write-up on Noel in today's Inquirer. he looks like he's added a good amount of muscle since i last saw him in a uniform:


Paul George is set to sign a contract worth $90 million over 5 years. The one good thing about drafting Turner over George is that we didn't have to overpay Paul George.

Mike reply to Stan on Sep 23 at 6:47

i don't think he's going to be overpaid. he might be a top 10 player in the league within the next season or 2.

Summer residents of the Sixers fallout shelter, quaintly called Hinkie's Hut of Freeze-dried Macaroni & Cheese, will soon be emerging after taking potassium iodide pills to counter exposure to an expectant media and 182 die-hard, torchbearing Sixer fans. It remains to be seen whether protean genius or even prosaic effectiveness can exist in such conditions. Stay tuned to your emergency broadcast signal.

That story is really hedged, but if it happens, I won't defend it. I would say that MAYBE Cousins would be worth a max if he played all the time the way he did in his best 20 games or so last season. But even then probably not, because of the defense.

I doubt if anyone on this board saw Cousins play 10 games last
season. An unflattering reputation precedes him but who knows what he's worth relative to rest of league knuckleheads. Double-double big men are fairly rare commodities. Kings' ransom has reason.

I know I saw more than 10. Probably more than 20. Watching that train wreck was my game of choice on the west coast when nothing else was going on. Pretty sure Tray watched a bunch, too.

Much like Wall, he's capable of excellent play. Also like Wall, he's capable of horribly destructive play, and we've seen much more of the latter than the former through their careers, so far. Think a max extension for either is a terrible, terrible idea. Of the three, George is the only one I'd even consider for a max extension, and I'm not sure I'd be too happy about handing out that contract, either. Tying up that much money in Hibbert and George...don't think that gets you anywhere near a title.

Mike reply to Brian on Sep 23 at 20:03

game 7 of the Eastern Conf Finals doesn't count?

Tray reply to Mike on Sep 23 at 21:19

And who knows what might have happened with a healthy Granger.

Stan reply to Brian on Sep 23 at 23:28

PG: In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter. He's getting overpaid by 2 or 3 million a year and that's not going to be the difference between them landing another star player. The only thing it might do is affect their ability to re-sign Lance Stephenson. In a year or two when Ray Allen retires, Wade becomes a shell of his former self, and Lebron has to carry a team of scrubs, the Pacers might be the best team in the East.

Max extension for most players is a bad idea. An 80 or 90 million windfall tends to disincentivize, distract a young man to some extent. What's Jrue makin'? 50 or 55? That's too much bread for what he brings to the table...but it's in line with other astronomical paydays of the not-yet-there group. Who in their right mind would turn it away? League office, owners, tv execs, agents, players union are to blame for the financial nonsense - - especially the owners (who co-sign the bottom line of dream contracts).

Players are pay-to-play entities instead of produce-for-reward functionaries anymore. Sixers new xtra-long pipecleaner, Noel, who lugs questionable wheels, gets a 3-plus million rookie contract without blocking 1 shot, grabbing 1 rebound or carrying an offensive game. More power to him. Hope he lives up to it.

Can you imagine what prime time Wilt would collect today? Or rambunctious William Russell? Or the ripped and ropey Nate Thurmond? Or the marvelous Big E? Or captain Willis Reed? There'd be casinos named after them.

I can tell you exactly how much all those guys would make today...the same amount as Joe Johnson, give or take.

Joe Johnson. That's funny. Which version? The Celt? The Sun? The Hawk? Or the Net?

Late Hawks/early Nets version. He's still got 2 years left on his deal, right?

120 for THAT. I think he's Lou Hudson's grandson. Or Reggie Theus's nephew.

No wonder there was an opening for Ferry.

For those who haven't heard, I have left LibertyBallers and will be writing at my own blog. Feel free to check it out.


Is that going to be all Sixers or ate you going to mix in some college scouting/commentary?

This season? It might all be college / scouting.

It will probably have more college than I did at LB. Not full-on scouting reports, but thoughts as I'm watching games throughout the season. It will still be sixers focused, thoguh.

GoSixers reply to Derek Bodner on Sep 24 at 9:41

Congratulations - glad to see you at a place more suited to your type of writing and in depth analysis.

Thanks. Pretty excited about it.

That's great Derek! Will be checking that out "on the reg", as the kids say. Good luck man!

Oh, wow, didn't know that. I'll bookmark it immediately. Good Luck!

so who wins a playoff game next, Sixers Phillies or Eagles?

^ this must be why Brian calls it depressedfan

I think it's very clearly the Eagles. quickest to rebuild, and much easier to make the playoffs than in baseball. They're a couple of defensive backs away from being there, IMO.

spencer is hired reply to Derek Bodner on Sep 24 at 9:16

Derek, I knoe your opinion on Thad learning to be a s.f. is that he would have trouble in a lot of ways adjusting, after reading it on Liberty Ballers.

My question is, is there a comparison to be made between the Kw. Leonard situation coming out of college and Thad, as he is viewed now.

I thought Leonard played more of a p.f. his last year in college and was impressed how he adjusted so quickly to the s.f. role in S.Antonio.

Is it more of a defensive issue than offensively? And could Brett Brown work a miracle with him?

It's a couple of things.

First, I think Thad's quickness advantage against power forwards is one of this greatest strengths offensively, and he largely loses that moving to sf.

Second, I place a great deal of value in a big man who can blow up the pick and roll. Thad's excellent at that. He also struggles a bit changing direction on the perimeter when defending isolation scorers. So you take away his greatest strength defensively and throw in a weakness, and I think it drastically changes his defensive impact.

Now, if Thad can get back to having a decent corner 3 and a set shot, I think he can still find a way to contribute offensively, but I wouldn't want to move him back to sf mainly for defensive reasons.

Very happy to see Derek leave LB (and the college age kids working there). I now have very little reason to go to the LB site, if any.

There's some people there I really like. Rich, Jake (who is the youngest, but good, and now credentialed with the Flyers), Justin, Brandon (who is credentialed with the eagles now). I also find Dave funny, and he's in his late 20's. Sean's good. There's some good writers there.

I'm still doing a podcast with Rich, fwiw. Certainly respect and like a lot of people on the site.

spencer is hired reply to Derek Bodner on Sep 24 at 12:12

Thanks for the reply. Is it the way the league is going that allows a possible Noel and Thad combo to shine defensively together, in spite of both being on the light side weightwise?

And has the pick n role become more of a linchpin recently leaguewide that quickness is more vital than strength down low?

And lastly, is there any way that a Noel and Hawes frontcourt could compliment each other well enough to succeed for 20 minutes a night?

Well, it's not that I don't think them being so slightly isn't a concern. But I do think quickness is incredibly important, and the league has moved to using the pick and roll very much, whereas the number of post scorers (while climbing a bit in recent years) is still relatively sparce.

I think Noel can guard 4's (RE: perimeter oriented big), but I think pulling him away from the basket negates his biggest strength, and you don't want Hawes trying to defend stretch 4's for very long periods of time.

GoSixers reply to Derek Bodner on Sep 24 at 12:22

, and you don't want Hawes trying to defend stretch 4's for very long periods of time.

Aside from corpses, and possibly midgets, is there anyone you would WANT Hawes trying to defend for long periods of time?

GoSixers reply to das411 on Sep 24 at 9:46

Well I'm going to put the Phillies third in that list due to a GM who has his head up his arse and has handed out multiple bad extensions, and drained the minor league system that was the strength that got them to where they were (similar to the Yankees, but the Phillies don't have Yankees money) and the fact that the TV deal isn't going to be as huge as they might expect, Comcast area monopoly being what it is.

The Eagles and Sixers are both 'bad' right now but in better places in my opinion. Making smart hires and accepting the rebuilding process. I'll pick the Eagle mostly due to the fact that, well, they are in possibly the worst division in football right now, with multiple bad owners (in Washington and Dallas) and a franchise in New Jersey headed down the toilet but unwilling to accept how truly bad they are.

Not sure how it worked out - but I'll see the eagles first 4 games this season and I don't have DirecTV so it's nice to watch, I'm thankful that this draft might be pretty deep in QBs

Da Jruth on Sep 25 at 20:00

Who cares? No one's replacing Brian.

He is.

I also put a good word in with the Sixers PR to try to get DepressedFan blog favorite Rich Hofmann credentialed in my place for Liberty Ballers and will see him at a luncheon with Sam Hinkie tomorrow.

"Depressed Fan blog favorite"? From thin air. When did communal voting take place?

Remember the Xs and Os posts from Rich on Depressed Fan? Everybody liked them.

Rich is certainly my favorite blogger out there... One of the few alongside Derek and Brian that truly understands the game.

I mainly worded it the way I did because he has wirtten for DepressedFan. Obviously, opinions will vary.

And yeah, Rich is awesome. Hence why I recruited him to do the podcast with me when I found out Brian wouldn't be able to.

He's one of my favorites. Dollar Bill doesn't like anyone under 60.

Yet he spends copious amounts of time on blogs written mostly by people in their early 20's?

I mean, Brian and I are practically the elder statesmen of the blogging game.

wait this isn't the same Rich Hofmann who writes for the DN right?

He's the son of DN Rich Hofmann.

Wait, so Depressed Fan commenter "Rich" is the son of Rich Hoffman, and is also called Rich Hoffman? This is why we Jewish folks don't name our children after ourselves.

tk76 reply to Tray on Sep 27 at 17:23

With a name like Rich Hoffman, I wold think tribe membership is a possibility- not that it matters.

Tray reply to tk76 on Sep 28 at 2:40

It's possible, but Jewish tradition forbids naming your child after a living relative (or yourself), on the charmingly antiquated theory that the Angel of Death might get confused when he comes to take the living relative and take your child instead. Of course, that's not why we don't do it today; at this point it's just one of those things that traditionally isn't done.

ah ok

"Objection, Your Honor, on the basis that baldheaded counsel is badgering, inflammatory and assuming facts not in evidence."

First Bodner, now you - speaking for "everybody." Accuracy doesn't often take that road.

I see your opinion but certainly don't agree. The difference between you and that trio you mentioned is merely 2, no matter how they posture, with whom they hobnob or where they sit at the Wachovia Center.

The game is not difficult to understand. Fine pointing is often excessive - and obnoxious. See litany of fired coaches turned broadcasters.

Chess isn't difficult to understand
It is difficult to master

The same applies to almost any endeavor (Object Oriented Programming isn't difficult to understand, it's difficult to master), at this point you're just being a crotchety old man cause it's your schtick, but like most things, you jumped the shark (or as I like to say, went to space) long ago.

My mother is a bitter paranoid narcissist in her mid 70s - these days when you post, you remind me of her.

You've mastered the expression of your disfavor in your regrettable style. Now go on to other pursuits, bub.

"Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'...into the FEW-CHUUUH!!"

I'm glad you can quote classic rock songs, it's awesome, but of course, as usual, not relevant to the point. You'll ignore the point if you can't make some obscure historical nonsensical reference to try and counter it.

Seriously, you make Yogi Berra look erudite

You make Santa Barbara cloudy. Go fish off the pier. "You can observe a lot by watching."

Observation and understanding are not the same thing, I realize that it's hard to let go of the old ways...but that's ok, pretty soon the entire memory will be gone, and the kids you've alienated will come back and put you in a nice home

I never "spoke for everybody". Get over yourself.

You surely did. But I'm not arguing with a square of fudge.

And...now I remember why I abandoned DF. Thanks for the reminder.

Come back, Lassie, come back!

Did Jake get his permission slip signed?

So the Knicks announce they have a new (old) GM and ESPN lays out his history with the knicks, and this is evidence why the Knicks will always be the knicks

Mills previously worked with the Knicks for 10 years as president of MSG Sports (Dolan oversees MSG as its executive chairman) and hired Isiah Thomas, who presided over the team during one of its least successful stretches, with the Knicks missing the playoffs in six of their seven seasons on Thomas' watch.

The tumultuous period of Mills' reign included a sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Anucha Browne Sanders. The Knicks' former senior vice president of marketing and business operations successfully sued MSG, as a jury in October 2007 ordered the Knicks to pay her $11.6 million after finding she endured crude insults and unwanted advances from then-coach Thomas.

Mills was demoted by the Knicks in the summer of 2008. Thomas was fired in 2008 as well but remains a confidant of Dolan.

Much like I can always count on the incompetence and ego of Jerry Jones to make sure the Dallas Cowboys never truly succeed, I can be confident that Jim Dolan who somehow made a lot of money in the cable industry (probably shady like) lacks the insight to realize he is the biggest barrier to Knick success



Apparently, the Sixers according to the CBA are over the cap. Not sure if there are potentially interesting implications from this though...

Not really.

The only real reason the system is in place like it is is to prevent teams from using their cap space then going out and using their their exceptions. It's to prevent a loophole in the CBA. They can renounce those exceptions at any time and use their full cap space in a trade or signing.

Our Tom Moore reports that Brown called Turner "a generic player" in a press conference. Love this guy already.


Moultrie out a couple months with an ankle injury he needed surgery for

Bad, but inconsequential news. Moultrie probably would've helped lose a few games, but someone else will pick up his slack.

ESPN reporting that Brians favorite player from the Evan Turner draft received a max money extension from the Sacramento Kings, but not for max years (4 instead of 5) with no options at all.

I wonder if their new owner partner will be able to influence him at all, he had a great career of never improving or maturing, just existing on talent...of course he had a lot more than cousins

funny. I guess this signing makes more sense than $305M for Cano, though.

Cano ain't going to get 10 years, he ain't going to get 30.5 AAV - that's an insane number - the outcome of the A-Rod, Pujols, and even Hamiltons contract should put some sanity into the market.

Only way to even get close to that is to have a market outside of the Yankees for him - and so many teams with the big money have either A. No room for him or B. been burned by big deals before...I'm not sure

Maybe there's a chance that STeinbrenner west ponies it up but after the disasters of this season that he forced his GM to I'm hoping he learns some fiscal sense.

8/$200M is probably about where he winds up. If it's in that neighborhood, he probably stays in NY. If it's higher than that, it means someone else made a silly offer to him.

The Yanks will probably have money to spend next year, though. A-Rod will be off the books for one year, at least.

A-Rod ain't gonna be off the books for the year - the penalty was excessive in terms of what everyone else has gotten in the past - Selig let his emotion interfere with his common sense - Ryan Braun only got 100 games and hell he interfered with a test in the past. A-Rod is going to win his appeal a bit and play a part in the 2013/14 season...hell if was smart - he would have sat out the rest of this season even while appealling and use that in his appeal to point out he sat out X amount of games.

The Yankees are going to have to go over pay a closer too

(And $25/yr AAV is still too much for any one baseball player unless he's far and away the best in the game - and I feel Cano might be slightly over rated due to 'yankee mystique')

eh. hard to argue his numbers. robertson will be the closer next year, they'll have to overpay an 8th inning guy. not that it matters, they won't be relevant for years.

25/AAV to me is rarefied air for the best of the best in the game...I'm not saying Cano isn't very very good, I'm not sure he's one of the best in the game, and I'd argue that 25/AAV is too much for even the best in the game (I mean starting pitchers only pitch in about 20% of the games, they're only involved in whether the team wins or loses 20% of the games but for some reason that's not taken into account)

Ps - anyone notice the cheap 'geek driven' A's are going to have another playoff run again working off what seems to be an untapped resource (the power of the platoon)

Peyton Manning can REALLY survey the court and thread the needle. And Wes Welker is quick on cuts to daylight, has a nose for the ball and a pair of Fred Biletnikoff/Lester Hayes hands. Both Broncos could be ready to help Sixers backcourt by March, just in time for a run at the 8th seed.

Simmons and Jalen Rose offer a completely useless, gimmicky graphic-laden Sixers preview video that somehow drags on for 15 minutes.


tk76 reply to Tray on Oct 1 at 17:26

I actually enjoyed that. Given the material they had to work with (a Sixers preview), they needed any gimmicks they could find.

Tray reply to tk76 on Oct 1 at 17:45

I just don't see what value either one of those guys adds, either in terms of entertainment or actual content. Zach Lowe asks what we'll get for Thad and Turner, and Jalen's like, "they're trading Thad and Turner?? Turner's a good young player! He may not be #2 pick good, but he's worth his #2 pick rookie contract salary!" Then Simmons retreats into the whole lazy sportswriter cliche about how Turner's such an enigma, he doesn't know what to make of him, Turner's been forced to play off the ball, maybe this will be the year we'll find out who Turner really is (!) - when of course Turner is as proven a bust as anyone in basketball. It might make more sense to hold out a little hope for Michael Beasley, that's how proven a flop Turner is. Other than that I guess they didn't say anything too stupid, but they didn't really say anything else.

Mike reply to Tray on Oct 1 at 18:12

i mean they're talking about the worst team in the league. it's obviously not going to be as analytical as teams that actually matter this season.

you also didn't mention the Turner shot chart, which was pretty useful in revealing how bad he is around the basket

If you took away the gimmicks from anything Simmons wrote you'd be left with pronouns and punctuations.

Sure he's hired some good intelligent folk who do better when they don't have 'espn.com' type article limits - but simmons himself should take a more 'supervisory' role in the fact that he should 'supervise' what other people write and just collect his royalties...and he should have been booted off the NBA faster than Lane Kffin bailed on the volunteers once the USC job opened up

Mike reply to GoSixers on Oct 1 at 19:32

i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show. pretty sure a lot of people still enjoy his podcasts and occasional column. it's entertainment. it's ok to enjoy it for what it is (I enjoy reading Zach Lowe too for different reasons, and i know i'm getting a totally different column from him than i would be getting from Simmons). you speak in absolutes like there is no possible way someone else could have another opinion.

Tray reply to Mike on Oct 2 at 10:35

"i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show."

Anyone else who ever is on the show, or anyone else who could conceivably be on the show? Yeah, he's a little better than Magic. But I would take anyone in the TNT cast over him (maybe not Shaq), plus Webber, plus probably dozens of retired players. Nothing Simmons says or writes is funny to me; everything he says is some obvious rant about a GM's bad choices or how lousy some player is, a crazy trade idea, or an 80s movie/70s classic rock-analogizing rant about whether a player is a true "alpha dog" and/or which player on a team is the "alpha dog," how can you only have one "alpha dog" on a team, etc. This is exactly the same stuff you get from someone like Skip Bayless, only delivered in a less angry way and with way more extraneous fluff that assumes the reader has the same crappy taste as him. Moreover, it really, really isn't like there are writers who write about actual strategy and stats like Lowe, and writers who write about the personalities of the game, like Simmons, and Simmons is the best of the personality writers. There are millions of basketball writers who focus on personality and aren't serving up this tired tripe about who's the alpha dog and who isn't. Like for starters, pretty much every Grantland piece on basketball that isn't written by Simmons, Lowe or Goldsberry.

for those that care about such things the sixers new slogan is Together We Build

I would've preferred "Run Away From Us"

We're like a fine wine...
Just wait until 2016
We have a plan (cause honestly - they haven't since Iverson left)
It's not whether you win or lose but how much your players develop

not this year. this year it's how much you lose.

Wins are bad....mmmmmkay. with mr mackays balloon head.

Hinkie's camp motto: You eat what you kill.

Looking at exhibition schedule:

Does Spain have a consumer protection agency?

I'm telling you now Freddie & the Dreamers, Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders, Herman's Hermits & the late Davey Jones of the Monkees hailed from Manchester, northern England, site of game with Thunder.

'No KG-PP-Doc' Celtics at The Bob in Newark, DE...a buzz from Claymont to Smyrna.

buke reply to Dollar Bill on Oct 3 at 10:34

"C'mon baby let's start today, c'mon baby let's play...the game of love.... love... love....love, love, love, love, love!"

Indeed, and moving a bit further ahead in time, the following venerable acts (to one degree or another) also hailed from Manchester:

Joy Division/New Order, The Fall, The Buzzcocks, Magazine, The Smiths/Morissey, Happy Mondays, the Stone Roses, 808 State, Simply Red, Oasis,The Chemical Brothers, I Am Kloot

And...going further than the British invasion....John Mayall

Everyone else agree that Sixers UNDER 16.5 is a shoe in?

“Coach (Brett Brown) is asking us big to space further out,”

“I was shooting two’s earlier and coach gave me a hard time so I figured I better step back"

This is an actual Spencer Hawes quote from training camp. Gotta love the early signs of coach Brown...

I don't love ANY coach who encourages the 7 foot man to move farther away from the basket - no.

Every time Spencer Hawes attempts a three, an angel gets its wings, clipped...and he should be junk punched

hawes sucks but id rather he shoot 3's than long 2's

Tray reply to sixerfan1220 on Oct 3 at 0:01

A Hawes long two may be a good shot for our offense this year, compared to our other options. I think with Hawes the goal is to get a big empty stats season out of him so we can flip him for maybe a high second round pick and an undervalued role player.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Oct 3 at 0:26

I thought you were an athiest

I've always considered myself more of an agnostic...i don't believe in anything with out supporting evidence

Did anyone see where the Wages of Wins people said our worst case is 30 wins, our most likely case is 43 wins, and our best case is 48? Also, Houston is going to be the best team in the league and could go 73-9, Detroit will win 53-56 games, the Pacers will be a sub .500 team, as will the Warriors and Nets (not us though), Pelicans will win just 29 games and the Lakers will be worst in the league with 21. I really don't get how Wages of Wins continues to have a following. They're peddling junk science in the most literal sense.


Just giving it a cursory look, seems like they don't take injuries into account. They're projecting a full-season's worth of wins for both Richardson and Nerlens. They also seem to love Moultrie, but don't project him to play many minutes.

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 3 at 11:08

So their health might get us to 28 wins or something, but 43 wins would be impossible, and not taking injuries into account doesn't explain thinking the Nets, Pacers and Warriors will be sub .500 teams.

Yeah, I'm not defending their projections. A couple years ago someone did a study comparing their projections to just taking last year's standings and saying each team will have the exact same record this year. Last year's standings were much more accurate.

Do you have the link to that?

Nah. Not even sure if I read the study, might've just read it referenced somewhere.

is it possible we have the worst starting backcourt, worst starting frontcourt, and worst bench in the league? that sounds impossible, but when you break it down by position, we have probably the worst starting PG, SG, SF, and C, or at least bottom 3 at each of those positions (this is assuming you count Thad as a PF. if not then just swap PF in for SF on that list). and easily the worst bench.

Tray reply to Mike on Oct 3 at 9:49

I had some doubts that Hawes was a bottom 3 center, but it's hard to find 3 starting centers worse than him. Ironically, the one starting center that's easily worse, assuming he continues to start, is Depressed Fan fave Biyombo.

PhillyFastBreak reply to Mike on Oct 3 at 9:55

Bottom 3 might be a stretch for Hawes but he's certainly in the bottom 10 somewhere in a group that includes Kris Humphries, Chris Kaman, Robin Lopez, Dalembert, and Kendrick Perkins.
Starting wings, I would put Turner above DeMarre Carroll, Earl Clark, Fournier, Nick Young, Gerald Green, and maybe Alec Burks.
In regard to PG and SG/SF (whatever you're not calling Turner), the Sixers are definitely bottom 3.

All in all, it's a recipe for a top pick.