I don't think Brown is here just for the development years. He will be given a chance to work with legit talent IMO if nothing extraordinary happens.
We'll see maybe i'm wrong but i have a feeling that as long as Brown maintains a solid relationship with Hinkie and the key players he will be here for a long time.
I think you're allowing your bitterness towards the 'rebuilding' process to cloud your understanding of what Brown said in his interview. From what I've read he talked very much like a man who was more worried about evaluating the talent on the roster than his career W/L record in the first few seasons.
As for what 'choice' he was, this was the guy whose name leaked on draft night. Who knows why it took so long, but this was the guy reportedly at the top of the list in June. No explanation for why it took so long to finalized, maybe it was money, maybe it was something else, but in the end it sounds like the GM got the guy he always wanted and maybe was patient enough to wait for him until he said yes.
I'm just saying I felt your analysis of his press conference was clouded by something as nothing else I've seen indicates he hasn't fully embraced the reset button - Let Evan Turner say 'not tanking' - his over trying can only help the team evaluate how bad he is and get closer to a top 3 pick
A coach isn't going to say "Try to lose." but this is quote I was referring to. Guess it's technically hearsay (what Turner says Brown said to him)...
"I told him, 'Everybody wants to be in tank mode and thinks we're going to lose. I intend on trying to win as much as possible because losing's too easy,' " Turner said. "He said, 'Well, they got the wrong coach if we're going to go out and lose on purpose. We want to compete and get better.' "
A. It's Turner
B. A coach's job is partly to placate players who aren't as insightful as they like to thinkg
We want to compete and get better, not sure what part of that says 'I'm not on board with rebuilding'. The job is to evaluate the talent and develop it - thus - yeah - he wants them to get better, it's part of his job to develop guys, but I'd read that more as someone trying to placate Turner's ego (which seems pretty fragile to me after the past couple seasons)
I wouldn't pay too much attention on that quote. What was Brown supposed to say to one of his players? That they will actively try to lose? Of course not. The players SHOULD give consistent effort and try to win games. The GM and to a degree the coach are the ones that can put a limit to winning via many ways.
Quite the contrary, i've never heard a coach speak less about trying to win in the following season. Regarding next season he was talking about process, pain and my favorite "science experiment". I really don't know what more can he say and not blatantly tell the media that the organization wants to be terrible next season and he's perfectly fine with it.
Not losing on purpose != focusing on player development over winning meaningless games.
If the expectation of a coach is that he's going to go out there and try to lose, I don't think you'll ever find one. If you have found a coach who is willing to concede that player development is more important than wins and losses this season, which I believe the Sixers have, then you've struck gold.
Brown talked about next year being an educated science experiment, said about how important it is to let players play through and give young players a chance, and talked about how he's looking at the development of the pieces on the team as the compass for his success rather than the result.
I really couldn't have expected much more from him, to be honest.
That's all well and good, so long as it's a long learning curve. I don't want him squeezing out wins this year or the whole thing blows up in our faces. He and the front office need to be prepared to take steps to make sure that doesn't happen.
Watch his press conference (in 3 parts) on sixers.com - even from the introduction I get the impression he knows it's a long haul rebuilding, tolerance, patience, these are key terms he's using
This roster is so weak and raw that they will have one of the worst records in the league no matter how hard they try to win.
MCW
Turner
????
Young
Hawes
Bench:
Lavoy Allen
after that, really no one with nba experience to start the season.
Lastly, a coach has to respond to a player who says "I don't want to tank" with some version of "we are not going to tank." Anything else would be a scandal.
So what exactly are you interested in for next season because the sixers are probably going to be the worst team in the league (barring injuries to other mediocre teams)
The only thing thing that matters to me this year is finishing with the worst record, having a guaranteed top four pick and the best shot at Wiggins. Anything else is secondary, including player development. I hope this new coach feels the same way, despite what he says.
Yep, feel the same way. Give Noel a couple extra months of strength training once his rehab is done, then play him in Delaware for a few weeks. Coddle him, and give him as little exposure as possible to this sad sack team (while also making sure he doesn't accidentally improve the team).
Coach Brown (ugh, almost feels dirty saying that) multiple times put emphasis on development, physical fitness, physical endurance, the new training facility that they're building (I didn't know about that), a focus on defense while still being able to run...Noel's health will be 'held at a premium' says Brown
He barely even talked about Noel in the press conference. He might not even play next season.
From what i understood (and Brown was surprisingly very honest during the press conference), there are only three things that matter next season:
- developing MCW
- making Thad buy into the long term approach
- pump and dump everyone else if possible (they are all irrelevant long term)
Even when they acquired him, there were plenty of talks that White is irrelevant and that Aldemir is the real prize of the deal. Guessing that is correct.
it seems to have disappeared now but White tweeted the other day to someone who asked him if he'd ever play for the Sixers, something to the effect of "you never say 100% but I'm 99.9% sure" he will...wonder if Brown and Hinkie are already starting to crack down on social media use by players...
Isn't a given that developing Noel will be a key this season as well? I don't think that will mean rushing him back or pushing for wins, but I hope Brown intends to spend a lot of time with Noel off the court and in walkthroughs, and at least get him some NBA minutes later in the season. I don't see the advantage of playing Noel in Delaware or dragging his rehab longer than it should take.
I was just saying what my impressions were from the press conference. Brown was super excited about Noel, but he sort of looked at him as a 2014 pick, not someone who will be the focus of development this year. I guess Noel will spend most of this season rehabbing and he won't play a lot if at all.
Jason Richardson is expected resume basketball activities by February. I'm guessing James Anderson, who has averaged 3.7 ppg over his career, is supposed to be our starting SF. Or maybe they can move Thad to the 3 and have a front court of Hawes and Moultrie.
Terrible hire. I'm a bit perturbed at this move mainly because Brown comes off as way too intelligent and charismatic. We need to lose people! We need Wiggins or Parker! Brown is simply too good of a coach for a tank season. We should have brought back Eddie Jordan!
The Dwight Howard deal really worked out well for everybody, didn't it? I guess Denver and the Lakers made out best, each getting 1 season from a former all-star.
I think saying it will take Brown over 4 years to get over .500 is ludicrous. Don't get me wrong that shouldnt be the goal but you are vastly over-rating the league. The Sixers could be over .500 by 2014-2015 season if Noel pans out and they get Wiggins, Randle, Gordon, or Parker.
I think Brian's referring to Brown's cumulative coaching record. Even with optimistic growth in years 2-4, it's hard to see Brown reaching .500 until year 5.
If you are referring to cumulative coaching record, that is a pretty good estimate, but "cumulative" coaching record isn't what matters much at this point. If the Sixers don't have a .500 season until five years from now, then that should be more than enough evidence to consider this experiment a failure.
That would surprise me. Durant's team had two bad years after drafting him and Lebron's had one anyway. Granted they do have money for free agents next summer but I'm not sure how much of it will be spent then.
Also I think the feelings being expressed about Noel are ludicrous as well. The kid will play a lot this year. He will be back before Christmas mark my words. If you know anything about Nerlens Noel is that he loves to play the game of basketball. All reports are that his rehab is going well. His injury was way less severe then Derrick Roses. They will not be sitting him extra months to tank games. They will still be awful even if he plays and plays fairly well. Usually I love this blog but I think some of the stuff being said in this particular post is way out there.
Did you listen do the Brett Brown press conference? He was excited about him, but he certainly didn't sound like a guy who expects to see Noel soon. And i don't think that has anything to do with his work ethic, severity of the injury or his love for the game. They just won't rush him and will force him to take his time and get in the best shape possible before stepping on the floor.
Those are some high percentage baskets. Does have any mid-range to speak of? Seeing him handle the ball kinda reminds me of Durant.....maybe just bc he is tall and lanky. No way is he even in Durant's league offensively.
Well they did need more guards and he is supposed to be a good ball handler anyway. The Sixers may set this century's record for lowest backcourt field goal percentage. On the other hand, their bigs could have a banner year in grabbing offensive rebounds.
If they are committed to being bad, then this is exactly the type of player they should be auditioning this year: a young player with previously forecasted upside who has declined in value and won't get enough chances with a competitive team.
Believe it or not, i am actually more confident in Wroten than in MCW to develop into a good player. But MCW is still an unknown quantity so i might be very wrong.
ahh didn't realize that, thanks. guess it makes sense to just pick up an expiring contract at some point over the course of the season as buke mentioned
I guess everyone wonders how that shortfall will be resolved. My own guess is that, at the moment, they aren't targeting anyone with much of a price tag. From what I understand, the determination of whether a team meets the minimum salary requirements is done at the end of the year. If that is the case, they could always meet that shortfall by taking in a larger expiring contract sometime during the season.
If we don't count Kazemi but count all of the other players who were picked up during the offseason by various means, they now have thirteen players on the roster in the month or so before camp. Two of those players (Richardson and Noel) are injured. My guess is that they pick up one more guard, but that player may just be someone who is picked from those free agents receiving preseason camp invites.
I don't think this is just about losing. Young player development is probably also a factor. If the front office really wants to see MC Williams and Wroten get extensive opportunities, getting a player with enough stature to lock-in a position ahead of one of them would be counterproductive to that goal.
If they end up short of the salary floor, the difference is distributed amongst the players under contract. So it does not cost the team anything more than if they had been at the floor.
Think of it as a tankers bonus to the players who had to fight shorthanded all season.
I'd rather have them spend that money. Maybe take on the contract of Gerald Wallace, David Lee, Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash, Landry Fields, Nene, or Kendrick Perkins for 1st round picks.
Nene and an unprotected 1st round pick for Spencer Hawes. Do you think that the Wizards would make that trade? They can use that cap space to overpay for Pau Gasol and Rudy Gay.
Hard to say. I would not risk their chances in locking down a top 4 pick this year (meaning finishing with a bottom 2 record.) Then the following season would be a good time to make those types of moves you describe.
That way you ideally get your franchise star and then surround them with as much talent as soon as possible (both additional #1's and solid vet role players.) You don't want to draft a star and then lose them later because it took too long to add talent around them.
Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.
There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?
Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.
There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?
My gut says that Boston is going to win the lottery.
The guy I keep hearing about for next year's draft is Emmanuel Mudiay. He's going to be a high school senior and he already committed to Southern Methodist University. Odd.
Well i've heard people refer to Jahlil Okafor as the successor of Shaq, Bynum and the host of older great true post centers. He's the prohibitve no.1 pick as of right now. I guess it will be a fairly strong draft as it should have at least 2-3 players with star potential (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns) as well as the players from this class that will decide to stay in school for another year. I'm almost certain that there will be at least one of the top prospects that will stay for his sophomore year.
Btw, all in all i think it's fair to say the Sixers are very likely to get a top 3-4 pick in next years draft, regardless of their actual position in the end.
Depending on who we get at the top of this upcoming draft of course, the player in the '15 draft class that I would love, love, love to end up with is Justin Jackson. Man, I really really like this kid's game. His IQ and levelheadedness at his current age is astounding to me, without even mentioning his physical and athleticism attributes.
Justin Jackson to the Sixers in '15! (on the wing beside Wiggins or Parker obviously)
I have a premonition we're going to get the #2 pick in the lottery, or somehow have a better record than Orlando or Boston or someone, and spend the whole lottery-to-draft period, or the whole season, arguing with you about whether we should take Parker with the second pick. So let me just stake my ground now and say that I don't even see Parker as a top 5 pick in this draft.
@SpearsNBAYahoo
Sixers have agreed in principle to hire up and coming Grizzlies assistant coach Lloyd Pierce to a similar position, source told Y! Sports.
Ehhh, i hate that Butler to Milwaukee trade. Now the Sixers are not the only tanking team in the league with cap space to absorb terrible players/contracts for picks...
With Houston, Moses started at forward because Billy Paultz was the starting center. On the Sixers he was strictly a center. Caldwell Jones was traded (for him), as was DD, so they didn't have a true 5 they could start. I think he was most effective at the 4 because he shot more jumpers and still was an animal in the paint. He was a better shooter than people remember.
Caldwell was better than Sam. Overall I'd say he was a better defender than Mutumbo but didn't bring the intimidation factor. Have to put Theo ahead of all three. Was Mutombo really better than Theo? In spite of his many flaws, I would rank Dawkins third. He was just a much better player than Mutombo.
What! No Manute Bol or Shawn Bradley? No mention of Christian Welp?
Agree with Mutombo behind Moses. Don't think I agree with Dalembert as #3. I'd take the young Theo in that spot. Caldwell Jones wasn't far behind Dalembert. And based on entertainment value alone, I'd take Daryl Dawkins over Dalembert. Dalembert was very sturdy as a Sixer, though. He didn't miss very many games after his first year.
"Q: Is Philadelphia a good basketball city?
Gminski: I think it’s a football city at its core, and when the Phillies are good they are followed, so the 76ers are probably third. The Flyers have their fervent 20,000 who come out every game, it seems like. My time there did not end well [Gminski played for the 76ers from ‘88-91]. I was a great player at my old contract, but when I signed a bigger contract, I wasn’t nearly as good, even though I was the same player, and I got run out of there. WIP is the sports talk radio, and it is just brutal. Now, when I go back, it’s like, "You’re the greatest. We loved you when you were here, G-Man." I think, "Where were you in ’90 when I was getting killed?"
Yeah, diplomatic and pretty much spot on. I'm always baffled by how so many fans dislike a player based on their contract- as opposed to blaming the GM. I can see how having an overpaid player is bad for the team, but it is not a reason to hate a player.
You're right. I did completely forget about Gminski. Maybe because he played during one of those "in-between" Sixers eras where they were neither good enough nor bad enough to be particularly memorable. Although his best years were before coming here, he still should rank as one of the better Sixer centers post-Wilt.
I love Bodner's draft work, but he's under investigation, not "allegedly" under investigation. He allegedly assaulted this woman; that doesn't make the fact of the investigation itself an allegation too. Even if you're not sure whether he's under investigation or not, the right word there would be reportedly, not allegedly. TMZ didn't "allege" that White was under investigation, it reported it.
"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"
"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"
Hey - sorry for putting this here - but every little bit helps - my brother in law is a teacher in the philadlephia public school system and he needs books for his students and the school district doesn't have / won't give him the money for these 'consumable' books, so my sister set up this 'charitable crowd funding' thing (something i was recently talking about with friends needing to exist) to help raise the money to get his books. If any of you can help at all it would be greatly appreciated, or just pass it along to people you might know who might be willing to help. He's already 1/3 of the way to the goal
i already know i'm gonna get it, because i'm an idiot, but all you outta town 76er fans - are you gonna get league pass this season? i'm pretending i'm thinking about not getting it. but i know i'm gonna feel like a weird sucker, paying to root against the sixers every nite. sheesh.
1. Thanks for the donation joey - very cool of you :)
2. I didn't get it last year, I don't know if I'll get it this year. If I do get it - I wouldn't be 'rooting' for them to lose - I just wouldn't care if they won or lost I'd be focused on the guys who matter (very few on the roster this year) long term for the success of the sixers. I think I might look into investing in some college games instead since they are more relevant to the sixers going forward than their actual record on the court :)
If you don't tell them you don't want auto renew than the NBA package does auto renew - my cable company sends me a letter a couple weeks before telling me about it - but even then - after I tell them I don't want auto renew - they still have renewed it in the past :)
That's an interesting question. League Pass (whether TV or broadband) rolls over each season if you don't take the action to cancel it. Part of me doesn't want to waste my money, or more importantly, time watching the Sixers this season. But part of me just can't resist viewing at least part of the debacle. In the end I might just take the passive way and allow myself to be suckered.
But, you're right. A few Sixers games a year lately would be more than enough and that will probably never be truer than this year. In the latter half of last season, I probably skipped more than half of the games and felt better for it.
However, if I do want to catch a Sixers win this season, undoubtedly that will require much more consistent game watching until one happens. I will take some interest in the earlier games just to see what the hell, if anything, Brown can manage to squeeze from this team.
Ah the midwest - i often miss it quite a bit - but hey - one of those sixer wins this year could come against the T'wolves.
I just think depending on the budget for spending on things like this - popping some money down on specific college games might be more 'positive' as a sixer fan as you project who they might pick (then again, there's a lot more free options on the games)
Does the NBA sell individual games yet? Maybe buy every 10th games to see how they're progressing
I'm a little concerned, honestly. I used to watch every inning of every Yankee game until last year. Life just sort of intervened, I wasn't crazy about the direction the team was headed, so I just didn't set the time aside anymore. This year, I've watched maybe 5 games, maybe. Have a feeling that if I don't watch religiously, and sort of plan for it and make sure the time is carved out, I'll wind up not watching much at all this year and that might be the end of it. It's a big commitment to watch all the games.
Life does have a way of getting in the way if you can't devote your full 'professional' time to it - I know all about that - and I don't even have kids like you do - just an extremely over bearing job and some of my own life issues causing distraction - I think I watched 5 sixers games last year - sometimes I think the benefit of my adhd is that my interests come and go and when i decide to focus on something I will - but i can leave it a lone for a while and still have the interest when I come back.
Watching all the games when they start 90 minutes before you even get home from work is a pain as well :)
Oh come on - you don't really need to WATCH the pelicans you just need to check the box score to make sure they're maintaining their spot in 7th 'place' :)
w/out analyzing their team, that's how things usually work out for the Sixers. They'll also probably win their last 5 or 6 meaningless games and drop to like the 6th-worst record and the coach will be gushing about the great strides they made in the second half of the season, led by the emergence of Evan Turner, who will then receive a max extension.
Oh i was talking about the hornets - not the sixers.
You're a bit (ok a lot) jaded by the nonsense of the last few years (decades), so I see what made you say that, but I'm confident that it's a 'brand new day' and that sixers recent history will in no way inform going forward - or jrue holiday would still be here
I can see them making the playoffs. I see 6 teams that are clearly better than them- Thunder, Clippers, Grizzlies, Rockets, Warriors, and Spurs. The other two spots will be a 6 team race between the Mavs, Lakers, Timberwolves, Blazers, Nuggets, and Pelicans.
I'm probably going to follow the Pelicans as a fan. I'll root for them, but still have a reason to be pleased if they lose. I like watching a team on the rise who is hopefully learning how to win (although hopefully not too quickly.) I think that is more exciting then watching an established team where you expect them to perform.
Maybe in a couple of years the Sixers will be back on the rise. But for this year too many of the Sixers will be irrelevant- in that they won't be ion the team in 2 years. i want to see Noel develop, and don't expect MCW to ever amount to anything, so that leaves zero future Sixers when you look at their opening day roster. But I can enjoy watching Jrue finally get to play on a team with both shooters and an athletic big.
I'm rooting against them. I'm kind of jealous of how they were able to get rid of Ariza and Okafur's contracts. How they were able to get the #1 pick during a year in which one of the best prospects at the C position entered the draft and how they were saved from the Chris Paul trade. I want them to suffer for a year or two before they get really good.
I have to pick some team to watch this year. The draft pick part sort of complicates it, but I'm not sure what other team would hold my interest. I don't like watching the other really good teams- it makes me feel like a bandwagon fan. But I do like watching an up and coming team with players who are starting to break out.
That is bull Crap. why are the sixers not on the rise also. why not watch your home team Rise. Everybody should root for the pelican to Losr. Then Sixers can get a better pick.
Yeah, I am clearly a fair weather Sixer fan. I've watched about 95% of their games over the last 20 years, but will maybe watch 50% this year. I'm sure Hinkie will understand and forgive given the product.
Good question. I haven't decided yet, but i think i'll renew it. I want to see if one of the young guys shows some promise and i'll probably find another team to root for in the meantime. I already like the Timberwolves because of Rubio and Love anyway and i might follow the Pelicans now as well...
I read some of the comments on this page. so much negativity toward your team. This team is tryin to rebuild. how the hell do many expect this to happen. which superstar will come to Philly. maybe Evan turner will be more mature nd comfortable this year. maybe he will live up to his own High expectation. Go sixers
There used to be a lot of high expectations, especially in the upper level of the Spectrum.
Evan Turner hasn't yet earned quotation marks. Could this be the year? His way is now paved.
Thad is a positive. The new coach seems like he means it. Plenty of seats from which to choose on game nights. You're right. It's not all bad. Roman Gabriel and the Fire High Gang wasn't built in a day!
I will watch every game this Year. i work for comcast in Colorado. i am happy that i watch my team. I think the fans should get behind this young team. imagine if they get two more players in next draft. then the bandwagon will be filled.
I was just reading a True Hoop article in which they mention "The Oklahoma City Model" as a proper and recognized strategy. That cracks me up. It's called tanking. It has always been called tanking. Teams in all professional sports that have a draft tank. Granted, the Thunder have had tremendous success by tanking and have built a perennial contender, but to give their GM credit for inventing that strategy is beyond ridiculous. You could also call it "The Charlotte Model", no?
more than anything OKC got lucky in getting the #2 instead of #1 pick that particular year. which is even more insane considering how bad most #2 picks have been recently. just check this list out:
I'd absolutely love it if they signed Beasley and traded for D. Williams. Possibly picked up Thabeet as well. Get as many bust #2 picks as possible in preparation for getting the #2 pick in the upcoming draft.
I think there are two types of tanking. One is intentionally throwing games by holding out your best players in order to lose. This happens on occasion when seeding or specific lottery positioning is at stake. Holding out an injured player through a "lost season" like what the Spurs did with DRobinson prior to getting Duncan also qualifies. IMO this is both smart and acceptable, as teams need to do what is in their best interest- but not everyone would agree.
The Sixers represent something different- in that they are doing a full rebuild. I'm not sure why this is considered tanking. They have stripped away everything that is irrelevant to their future and the resultant team will lose a lot on merit. The NBA rightly rewards this with a higher pick to help the process along. I don't see any requirement (moral or otherwise) that a team that is rebuilding has to add players that will maintain some short term respectability. This would be like telling someone who is renovating their home that they have to put in a temporary kitchen after tearing out the old one. There is noth wrong with gutting a home before putting in the upgrades.
It's considered tanking because the average sports fan doesn't want to bother with nuance. You traded away your best player, you're not signing 'names' who people think can play (even if they're only replacement level) you must be trying to lose on purpose.
There is nuance between tanking and rebuilding that most don't want to see. Pelton at ESPN tries very hard during his (very long) chats to try and explain the difference, but many don't want to hear it
True. But like Joeykey said, the term "OKC Model" is kind of annoying. They're not doing anything new or revolutionary.
Indiana is the team that I'm really impressed with. No one on their roster is a top 5 pick and they didn't go out and sign some major free agent. They've built a great team by making good draft picks and developing their players.
Roy Hibbert was a shitty college player who entered the league overweight and with conditioning issues. Paul George was the 10th pick despite coming from Fresno State, Lance Stephenson was a 2nd round pick, George Hill was acquired in a trade, and David West was signed despite having injury issues. Even Danny Granger who hasn't been playing was the #17 pick.
What's also impressive is that the guys they drafted didn't have immediate success in the NBA. I think Indiana did a really good job with their training staff.
I guess the only mistake Indiana made was drafting Tyler Hansbrough over Jrue Holiday.
yep. Hibbert has surprised me the most, because i thought he was an absolute stiff at Georgetown. it's remarkable what their staff has done with him. and Paul George will probably be a top 10 player in the league this season. they're legit contenders in my mind.
I don't buy the assertions in this at all. Basically there is the premise that bad teams hardly every become great. And that is true- becasue only a few generational superstars win almost all of the titles. But IMO that just reinforces how hard it is to win in the NBA and that you have to put yourself in a position to get lucky.
So the choice for the Sxiers since the end of the Iverson era has been either to have zero chance at a title but a decent chance at building towards 50 wins or do what they are doing now. And now they historically have only a 12% chance of getting really good in the next decade (ouch)- which means Hinkie is taking a big gamble with his own career- bit IMO still doing the right thing for the Sixers.
Remember when the Sixers signed Lee Nailon and he ended up being arrested later that year for beating up his wife? The Sixers were desperate to get rid of him so they traded him to Cleveland along with a 2nd round pick in exchange for a protected 2nd round pick that they never got. Cleveland used that 2nd round pick to draft Boobie Gibson. If the sign him I guess it will be like they lost nothing in that trade.
Last year had a 10 game plan costing $138 per ticket. The recent invoice received for this year indicates $188 per ticket. A 36% increase to watch a diminished product. Not buying it and have to question the business model.
That's hilarious. You should send a response asking them why they would expect you to pay more considering the moves they made this summer. See if you get a response.
Maybe they should be required to distribute at least some of the money they are beneath the salary floor to ticket holders. That would almost make too much sense.
To be fair- The games they raised the Prices for are against, the Heat(2), Knicks(2), Nets(2) OKC(1), LAL(1), LAC(1), and Pelicans(Yeah, why they are thrown into the big game plan, I have no idea)
So your not really paying more to see the Sixers, your paying more to see the top opponents in the league. Since new ownership has taken over, they have been gradually raising the price to see top opponents and lowering the price/offering specials to see the teams no one wants to see, which makes sense.
but increasing prices by 50% (same thing happened to me) to sell an inferior product does not exactly seem like the best way to fill the building and/or grow the STH base...at least the Celtics have been demoted out of big game
I guess their philosophy is that no one is going to attend a Sixers game unless they want to watch the opposing team. They might as well make as much money as they can from their major income source.
The problem is even though you are paying to watch the other team play they may sit their stars or limit their playing time this season versus the Sixers. Whats the point of watching mismatches against the better teams in the league. Th entertainment value still comes from having competitive games.
People are going to come in to see Lebron, Wade, Melo, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, Deron and KG play. It's not always about competitive basketball. How often do you get to watch Lebron play in-person?
I'm at the UK alumni game. Wall and Davis are playing; Cousins and Noel came to "coach.". Noel is wearing a vest over a throwback Phillies t-shirt. He's skinny, ambulatory, and pretty boyish. He dribbles a basketball on the bench and was the only alum who couldn't stop fidgeting during the national anthem. He's also really bored by the game. Cousins, unsurprisingly, is really into it, screaming instructions at his team's players cross-court and hanging his head when his team misses shots or Josh Harrelson makes one. He also throws t-shirts into the stands during timeouts. As for the game, Wall is outplaying Brandon Knight, and Kidd-Gilchrist looks like a completely worthless offensive player even in a game played at a quarter of the effort of an all-star game. Calipari just made a speech about donating the million in ticket sales they raised in the game and still seems like a sleazy creep. I'm not sure that Noel has said a word to anyone all game, although maybe that's because all his teammates are still on the team or didn't come (Archie Goodwin). Cousins is very upset that his team is losing and is heatedly discussing this with Eric Bledsoe. Then he forcibly lifted Patrick Patterson out of his chair to get him in the game, although I don't think Patterson is on Cousins's team. Now they're taking pictures at center court of giant charitable check presentations. Noel is so bored he tried to duck out after they shot the first picture. Now he's literally pacing around the group and hovering three feet behind all the other players. He doesn't exactly come across as mature.
That's true, but he just seemed so shy and introverted. It was strange to see. Sometimes Wall or Cousins would try to politely engage him in a conversation, and he would talk for a minute and then go back to staring into space.
Oh certainly. It was amusing to see Cousins pacing the sidelines as a coach; it was kind of like this bizarro world where his personality flaws were strengths. Sort of like how Mark Jackson went from being the world's most annoying announcer to a really great motivational coach without really changing anything about his personality.
He has New Orleans picking 11th which I would be thrilled with. I have a feeling that a lot of these guys like Jabari Parker, Chris Walker, and Dante Exum might not enter the draft next year.
Call me crazy, but I think the central is going to be a 3-team race and Detroit has a chance to win the division. A pretty good chance, actually. You aren't going to be able to score on them.
Depends mostly on how Drummond's production works in a full-time role as the starting 5. But with Smith at the three, Jennings and the point and Drummond at the 5, really doesn't matter who's at the 2 and 4, they can defend anyone. Don't think their offense will be very good, and I'm not sold on Mo as a head coach after his time in Philly, but they've got some really good defensive pieces and they've got size. Better size than IND IMO. No idea what to expect from Chicago, other than Deng playing 45 minutes/game as Thibs tries to wring every last molecule of productivity out of him in his walk year.
I think Drummond is very good talent, but is far from leading a team to the top of the conference. He is not even ready to be a full time starter IMO. First he needs to learn how to shoot FTs or he won't even be on the floor for more than 25 minutes. Right now he is not that different from say DeAndre Jordan. He needs time. The sky is the limit though.
A quick web search I found an announcement that the Bulls training camp starts September 27th
I couldn't find a note on when the sixers pre-season starts - but I did find this
The Sixers will appear in seven exhibition contests this fall, beginning on Sunday, October 6 (12PM EST) with a game against ACB League club Bilbao Basket in Bilbao, Spain.
I'd say training camp probably starts the week of the 23rd?
Don't know. Communication blackout remains. Could be marketing dept's obverse tactic to tease fan with coin into blind ticket purchase or maybe Dr. Fish, team consultant, prescribed prolonged silence for a full Collins cleanse. Dr. No was more transparent than New Sixers.
I was just checking out Facebook for some unknown reason, and I noticed the Sixers official FB page is promoting the big game plan, with a picture of Jrue in a Pelicans uniform. Kind of ironic. "Come see our best player...remember, the guy we traded away!"
Courtside is always awesome, but courtside in Philly has basically none of the bells and whistles they have pretty much everywhere else. You get access to a cash bar and overpriced waitress service. Everywhere else you get access to free food and non-alcoholic drinks, VIP entrance, etc. They just do everything wrong in Philly.
Well last year I got to hear Evan Turner discuss with his friend (sitting next to me)where they were going to booze that night, so there's always that. Yeah it is ridiculous though, the allure of courtside is purely in how easy it is to see and hear everything on the court. The bells and whistles are next to nothing besides the more comfortable seats.
i think it depends what kind of courtside seats you have. for my birthday this year my girl hooked it up and they included free food and drinks at the Lexus Club. neither of us knew so we had to ask one of the dudes down there. he marked our tix, gave us a wristband, and we ordered whatever we wanted. it might be better in other arenas but for us it was pretty much the most amazing night ever.
Going to sign up for League Pass broadband. I'll take the 5 team option, but still undecided on my 5 teams. ack in the late 80's and early 90's I used to follow the Suns (KJ/Chambers/EJ/Hornecek/Thunder Dan) and Seattle (Kemp/Payton/Schemph/XMan/Peirce/EJ/Chambers/Ellis
These next few years I want to become more a broader fan of the game, so hope to find some teams on the rise. I really dislike the Miami/Boston/LAC type teams that were constructed from established stars. And for some reason don't really enjoy OKC.
So the Sixers, Pelicans and 3 other teams (+ Bulls who are on local TV.) What formerly bad team will win 45-50 games this year?
The 5 team option is on the league pass broadband page. I think it is forty dollars less. Not a big deal, but I generally only watch the success out the national games, so I might as well take the savings. Then again maybe I'll just splurge for the cable package to make it more reliable on the big screen.
I used to have the cable option but after two seasons it seemed wasteful to me because I found I really didn't have the interest in watching that many teams. In addition, they only have one HD channel (at least they did) and, if I only have a modest interest in watching the teams, I'd rather just watch the games offered on the national HD channels. I also like the ability to watch archived games on the broadband package.
For the five teams (they gave seven a couple of years ago), I pick the Sixers and usually ones that are rarely shown on the national channels.
Warriors should be fun to watch. Timberwolves are a good league pass team assuming Rubio/Love stays healthy. I assume you'd want an east coast team for the last one just to balance things out a little but I can't think of an east coast team that's really worth watching. Maybe New York for the lol-factor. Otherwise, Houston's probably a good team to watch too.
Without blake griffin the clippers wouldn't be much - they have one 'established' star...not sure I'd dismiss them because of that
The Warriors are a trendy team I expect to take a big step back this year (too many injury prone players need to stay healthy)
Pacers maybe? They fit your criteria? Orlando is one of them young up and coming teams people want to talk about.
The Wolves being healthy would be nice
I think the Rockets could be a nice comedy this year, I don't expect Dwight being any happier in Houston where Harden is the center than he did in LA with Kobe.
Cleveland? Irving is supposedly fun to watch
What exactly type of team do you want to watch? Wouldn't you like to watch at least one contending team?
I'll still mostly watch the Sixers and maybe Pelicans. I figure the contents will be in national TV enough to get my fill.
I do like watching good teams, but teens that are full of older vets who made their names on previous teams are less interesting for some reason. That is what I meant by Miami, LAC and formerly Boston. In the beginning it is interesting to see how these teams mesh, but after that I lose interest because I already sort of know what to expect from the players.
If you can stand the color purple, a Northwestern season ticket will supply the opportunities to see Big 10 (or 11 or 12) powers and to pick Doug's brain for Sixers saga nuggets when he appears in the corridor.
1. Timberwolves - Rubio in an Adelman system. Always fun to watch. And they also check the "criminally underrated" point.
2. Pelicans - Holiday + Davis. A definite must watch.
2. Warriors - Iguodala + Curry. Will probably be exciting.
3. Grizzlies - A chance to watch completely different type of basketball. And they'll be good. Really good.
4. Rockets - Who knows what Morey has up his sleeves. This is a high risk/reward pick :)
5. Hawks - Exciting changes similar to the ones in Philly are going on in Atlanta. They could be both progressive and good. Also a chance to finally see Mike Budenholzer coach.
I'm tempted to pick Cleveland, but I don't want to hear about Bynum. That team really has an interesting frontcourt *when healthy. Bynm, Varajao, Thompson, Bennett and Zeller.
I reviewed the new depth charts at http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nba.aspx
I can see why the sixers are tanking so hard- as there are some legitimately bad teams out there that will be a challenge to separate from. the Sixers lack talent, but they likely won't be nearly as dysfunctional as some teams, so i guess we will have to see how it plays out.
So I'll go with Sixers, Pelicans, Pistons, Warriors and maybe the Wolves. That must be the strangest/worst 5 teams ever selected on League Pass. Maybe I'll go with 1 good team for my sanity.
New Orleans Pelicans: nickname ranks with ones of ABA...Anaheim Amigos, Oakland Oaks, Memphis Tams, Baltimore Claws, Minnesota Muskies, San Diego Conquistadors/Sails, Pittsburgh Condors.
Delightfully whimsical name but logo has "militarized" the enchantingly goofy water bird. Jackie Moon disapproves of graphic.
The NBA begins and ends with the Boston Celtics. Can't dial them out!
Which will more resemble a summer basketball camp. I don't remember even the mid 90's teams being as low profile as this squad. Although I guess Spoon, Dumas and Barros were not much better.
Well i don't think there's a limit to the coaching staff. You can have as many assistant coaches as you want to. Most teams have at least 4 i think. Anyway Kuester is rumored to be the top guy under Brown. Other signed assistants include: Lloyd Pierce, Chad Iske, and Greg Foster with Billy Lange as a possibility as well.
they just named another one from the Villanova staff too though, Billy Lange. he was the head coach of Navy for 7 years before working as Jay Wright's associate head coach the past 2 seasons.
Paul George is set to sign a contract worth $90 million over 5 years. The one good thing about drafting Turner over George is that we didn't have to overpay Paul George.
Summer residents of the Sixers fallout shelter, quaintly called Hinkie's Hut of Freeze-dried Macaroni & Cheese, will soon be emerging after taking potassium iodide pills to counter exposure to an expectant media and 182 die-hard, torchbearing Sixer fans. It remains to be seen whether protean genius or even prosaic effectiveness can exist in such conditions. Stay tuned to your emergency broadcast signal.
That story is really hedged, but if it happens, I won't defend it. I would say that MAYBE Cousins would be worth a max if he played all the time the way he did in his best 20 games or so last season. But even then probably not, because of the defense.
I doubt if anyone on this board saw Cousins play 10 games last
season. An unflattering reputation precedes him but who knows what he's worth relative to rest of league knuckleheads. Double-double big men are fairly rare commodities. Kings' ransom has reason.
I know I saw more than 10. Probably more than 20. Watching that train wreck was my game of choice on the west coast when nothing else was going on. Pretty sure Tray watched a bunch, too.
Much like Wall, he's capable of excellent play. Also like Wall, he's capable of horribly destructive play, and we've seen much more of the latter than the former through their careers, so far. Think a max extension for either is a terrible, terrible idea. Of the three, George is the only one I'd even consider for a max extension, and I'm not sure I'd be too happy about handing out that contract, either. Tying up that much money in Hibbert and George...don't think that gets you anywhere near a title.
PG: In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter. He's getting overpaid by 2 or 3 million a year and that's not going to be the difference between them landing another star player. The only thing it might do is affect their ability to re-sign Lance Stephenson. In a year or two when Ray Allen retires, Wade becomes a shell of his former self, and Lebron has to carry a team of scrubs, the Pacers might be the best team in the East.
Max extension for most players is a bad idea. An 80 or 90 million windfall tends to disincentivize, distract a young man to some extent. What's Jrue makin'? 50 or 55? That's too much bread for what he brings to the table...but it's in line with other astronomical paydays of the not-yet-there group. Who in their right mind would turn it away? League office, owners, tv execs, agents, players union are to blame for the financial nonsense - - especially the owners (who co-sign the bottom line of dream contracts).
Players are pay-to-play entities instead of produce-for-reward functionaries anymore. Sixers new xtra-long pipecleaner, Noel, who lugs questionable wheels, gets a 3-plus million rookie contract without blocking 1 shot, grabbing 1 rebound or carrying an offensive game. More power to him. Hope he lives up to it.
Can you imagine what prime time Wilt would collect today? Or rambunctious William Russell? Or the ripped and ropey Nate Thurmond? Or the marvelous Big E? Or captain Willis Reed? There'd be casinos named after them.
It will probably have more college than I did at LB. Not full-on scouting reports, but thoughts as I'm watching games throughout the season. It will still be sixers focused, thoguh.
I think it's very clearly the Eagles. quickest to rebuild, and much easier to make the playoffs than in baseball. They're a couple of defensive backs away from being there, IMO.
Derek, I knoe your opinion on Thad learning to be a s.f. is that he would have trouble in a lot of ways adjusting, after reading it on Liberty Ballers.
My question is, is there a comparison to be made between the Kw. Leonard situation coming out of college and Thad, as he is viewed now.
I thought Leonard played more of a p.f. his last year in college and was impressed how he adjusted so quickly to the s.f. role in S.Antonio.
Is it more of a defensive issue than offensively? And could Brett Brown work a miracle with him?
First, I think Thad's quickness advantage against power forwards is one of this greatest strengths offensively, and he largely loses that moving to sf.
Second, I place a great deal of value in a big man who can blow up the pick and roll. Thad's excellent at that. He also struggles a bit changing direction on the perimeter when defending isolation scorers. So you take away his greatest strength defensively and throw in a weakness, and I think it drastically changes his defensive impact.
Now, if Thad can get back to having a decent corner 3 and a set shot, I think he can still find a way to contribute offensively, but I wouldn't want to move him back to sf mainly for defensive reasons.
There's some people there I really like. Rich, Jake (who is the youngest, but good, and now credentialed with the Flyers), Justin, Brandon (who is credentialed with the eagles now). I also find Dave funny, and he's in his late 20's. Sean's good. There's some good writers there.
I'm still doing a podcast with Rich, fwiw. Certainly respect and like a lot of people on the site.
Thanks for the reply. Is it the way the league is going that allows a possible Noel and Thad combo to shine defensively together, in spite of both being on the light side weightwise?
And has the pick n role become more of a linchpin recently leaguewide that quickness is more vital than strength down low?
And lastly, is there any way that a Noel and Hawes frontcourt could compliment each other well enough to succeed for 20 minutes a night?
Well, it's not that I don't think them being so slightly isn't a concern. But I do think quickness is incredibly important, and the league has moved to using the pick and roll very much, whereas the number of post scorers (while climbing a bit in recent years) is still relatively sparce.
I think Noel can guard 4's (RE: perimeter oriented big), but I think pulling him away from the basket negates his biggest strength, and you don't want Hawes trying to defend stretch 4's for very long periods of time.
Well I'm going to put the Phillies third in that list due to a GM who has his head up his arse and has handed out multiple bad extensions, and drained the minor league system that was the strength that got them to where they were (similar to the Yankees, but the Phillies don't have Yankees money) and the fact that the TV deal isn't going to be as huge as they might expect, Comcast area monopoly being what it is.
The Eagles and Sixers are both 'bad' right now but in better places in my opinion. Making smart hires and accepting the rebuilding process. I'll pick the Eagle mostly due to the fact that, well, they are in possibly the worst division in football right now, with multiple bad owners (in Washington and Dallas) and a franchise in New Jersey headed down the toilet but unwilling to accept how truly bad they are.
Not sure how it worked out - but I'll see the eagles first 4 games this season and I don't have DirecTV so it's nice to watch, I'm thankful that this draft might be pretty deep in QBs
I also put a good word in with the Sixers PR to try to get DepressedFan blog favorite Rich Hofmann credentialed in my place for Liberty Ballers and will see him at a luncheon with Sam Hinkie tomorrow.
Wait, so Depressed Fan commenter "Rich" is the son of Rich Hoffman, and is also called Rich Hoffman? This is why we Jewish folks don't name our children after ourselves.
It's possible, but Jewish tradition forbids naming your child after a living relative (or yourself), on the charmingly antiquated theory that the Angel of Death might get confused when he comes to take the living relative and take your child instead. Of course, that's not why we don't do it today; at this point it's just one of those things that traditionally isn't done.
First Bodner, now you - speaking for "everybody." Accuracy doesn't often take that road.
I see your opinion but certainly don't agree. The difference between you and that trio you mentioned is merely 2, no matter how they posture, with whom they hobnob or where they sit at the Wachovia Center.
The game is not difficult to understand. Fine pointing is often excessive - and obnoxious. See litany of fired coaches turned broadcasters.
Chess isn't difficult to understand
It is difficult to master
The same applies to almost any endeavor (Object Oriented Programming isn't difficult to understand, it's difficult to master), at this point you're just being a crotchety old man cause it's your schtick, but like most things, you jumped the shark (or as I like to say, went to space) long ago.
My mother is a bitter paranoid narcissist in her mid 70s - these days when you post, you remind me of her.
I'm glad you can quote classic rock songs, it's awesome, but of course, as usual, not relevant to the point. You'll ignore the point if you can't make some obscure historical nonsensical reference to try and counter it.
Observation and understanding are not the same thing, I realize that it's hard to let go of the old ways...but that's ok, pretty soon the entire memory will be gone, and the kids you've alienated will come back and put you in a nice home
So the Knicks announce they have a new (old) GM and ESPN lays out his history with the knicks, and this is evidence why the Knicks will always be the knicks
Mills previously worked with the Knicks for 10 years as president of MSG Sports (Dolan oversees MSG as its executive chairman) and hired Isiah Thomas, who presided over the team during one of its least successful stretches, with the Knicks missing the playoffs in six of their seven seasons on Thomas' watch.
The tumultuous period of Mills' reign included a sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Anucha Browne Sanders. The Knicks' former senior vice president of marketing and business operations successfully sued MSG, as a jury in October 2007 ordered the Knicks to pay her $11.6 million after finding she endured crude insults and unwanted advances from then-coach Thomas.
Mills was demoted by the Knicks in the summer of 2008. Thomas was fired in 2008 as well but remains a confidant of Dolan.
Much like I can always count on the incompetence and ego of Jerry Jones to make sure the Dallas Cowboys never truly succeed, I can be confident that Jim Dolan who somehow made a lot of money in the cable industry (probably shady like) lacks the insight to realize he is the biggest barrier to Knick success
The only real reason the system is in place like it is is to prevent teams from using their cap space then going out and using their their exceptions. It's to prevent a loophole in the CBA. They can renounce those exceptions at any time and use their full cap space in a trade or signing.
ESPN reporting that Brians favorite player from the Evan Turner draft received a max money extension from the Sacramento Kings, but not for max years (4 instead of 5) with no options at all.
I wonder if their new owner partner will be able to influence him at all, he had a great career of never improving or maturing, just existing on talent...of course he had a lot more than cousins
Cano ain't going to get 10 years, he ain't going to get 30.5 AAV - that's an insane number - the outcome of the A-Rod, Pujols, and even Hamiltons contract should put some sanity into the market.
Only way to even get close to that is to have a market outside of the Yankees for him - and so many teams with the big money have either A. No room for him or B. been burned by big deals before...I'm not sure
Maybe there's a chance that STeinbrenner west ponies it up but after the disasters of this season that he forced his GM to I'm hoping he learns some fiscal sense.
8/$200M is probably about where he winds up. If it's in that neighborhood, he probably stays in NY. If it's higher than that, it means someone else made a silly offer to him.
The Yanks will probably have money to spend next year, though. A-Rod will be off the books for one year, at least.
A-Rod ain't gonna be off the books for the year - the penalty was excessive in terms of what everyone else has gotten in the past - Selig let his emotion interfere with his common sense - Ryan Braun only got 100 games and hell he interfered with a test in the past. A-Rod is going to win his appeal a bit and play a part in the 2013/14 season...hell if was smart - he would have sat out the rest of this season even while appealling and use that in his appeal to point out he sat out X amount of games.
The Yankees are going to have to go over pay a closer too
(And $25/yr AAV is still too much for any one baseball player unless he's far and away the best in the game - and I feel Cano might be slightly over rated due to 'yankee mystique')
eh. hard to argue his numbers. robertson will be the closer next year, they'll have to overpay an 8th inning guy. not that it matters, they won't be relevant for years.
25/AAV to me is rarefied air for the best of the best in the game...I'm not saying Cano isn't very very good, I'm not sure he's one of the best in the game, and I'd argue that 25/AAV is too much for even the best in the game (I mean starting pitchers only pitch in about 20% of the games, they're only involved in whether the team wins or loses 20% of the games but for some reason that's not taken into account)
Ps - anyone notice the cheap 'geek driven' A's are going to have another playoff run again working off what seems to be an untapped resource (the power of the platoon)
Peyton Manning can REALLY survey the court and thread the needle. And Wes Welker is quick on cuts to daylight, has a nose for the ball and a pair of Fred Biletnikoff/Lester Hayes hands. Both Broncos could be ready to help Sixers backcourt by March, just in time for a run at the 8th seed.
I just don't see what value either one of those guys adds, either in terms of entertainment or actual content. Zach Lowe asks what we'll get for Thad and Turner, and Jalen's like, "they're trading Thad and Turner?? Turner's a good young player! He may not be #2 pick good, but he's worth his #2 pick rookie contract salary!" Then Simmons retreats into the whole lazy sportswriter cliche about how Turner's such an enigma, he doesn't know what to make of him, Turner's been forced to play off the ball, maybe this will be the year we'll find out who Turner really is (!) - when of course Turner is as proven a bust as anyone in basketball. It might make more sense to hold out a little hope for Michael Beasley, that's how proven a flop Turner is. Other than that I guess they didn't say anything too stupid, but they didn't really say anything else.
If you took away the gimmicks from anything Simmons wrote you'd be left with pronouns and punctuations.
Sure he's hired some good intelligent folk who do better when they don't have 'espn.com' type article limits - but simmons himself should take a more 'supervisory' role in the fact that he should 'supervise' what other people write and just collect his royalties...and he should have been booted off the NBA faster than Lane Kffin bailed on the volunteers once the USC job opened up
i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show. pretty sure a lot of people still enjoy his podcasts and occasional column. it's entertainment. it's ok to enjoy it for what it is (I enjoy reading Zach Lowe too for different reasons, and i know i'm getting a totally different column from him than i would be getting from Simmons). you speak in absolutes like there is no possible way someone else could have another opinion.
"i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show."
Anyone else who ever is on the show, or anyone else who could conceivably be on the show? Yeah, he's a little better than Magic. But I would take anyone in the TNT cast over him (maybe not Shaq), plus Webber, plus probably dozens of retired players. Nothing Simmons says or writes is funny to me; everything he says is some obvious rant about a GM's bad choices or how lousy some player is, a crazy trade idea, or an 80s movie/70s classic rock-analogizing rant about whether a player is a true "alpha dog" and/or which player on a team is the "alpha dog," how can you only have one "alpha dog" on a team, etc. This is exactly the same stuff you get from someone like Skip Bayless, only delivered in a less angry way and with way more extraneous fluff that assumes the reader has the same crappy taste as him. Moreover, it really, really isn't like there are writers who write about actual strategy and stats like Lowe, and writers who write about the personalities of the game, like Simmons, and Simmons is the best of the personality writers. There are millions of basketball writers who focus on personality and aren't serving up this tired tripe about who's the alpha dog and who isn't. Like for starters, pretty much every Grantland piece on basketball that isn't written by Simmons, Lowe or Goldsberry.
We're like a fine wine...
Just wait until 2016
We have a plan (cause honestly - they haven't since Iverson left)
It's not whether you win or lose but how much your players develop
I'm telling you now Freddie & the Dreamers, Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders, Herman's Hermits & the late Davey Jones of the Monkees hailed from Manchester, northern England, site of game with Thunder.
'No KG-PP-Doc' Celtics at The Bob in Newark, DE...a buzz from Claymont to Smyrna.
"C'mon baby let's start today, c'mon baby let's play...the game of love.... love... love....love, love, love, love, love!"
Indeed, and moving a bit further ahead in time, the following venerable acts (to one degree or another) also hailed from Manchester:
Joy Division/New Order, The Fall, The Buzzcocks, Magazine, The Smiths/Morissey, Happy Mondays, the Stone Roses, 808 State, Simply Red, Oasis,The Chemical Brothers, I Am Kloot
And...going further than the British invasion....John Mayall
A Hawes long two may be a good shot for our offense this year, compared to our other options. I think with Hawes the goal is to get a big empty stats season out of him so we can flip him for maybe a high second round pick and an undervalued role player.
Did anyone see where the Wages of Wins people said our worst case is 30 wins, our most likely case is 43 wins, and our best case is 48? Also, Houston is going to be the best team in the league and could go 73-9, Detroit will win 53-56 games, the Pacers will be a sub .500 team, as will the Warriors and Nets (not us though), Pelicans will win just 29 games and the Lakers will be worst in the league with 21. I really don't get how Wages of Wins continues to have a following. They're peddling junk science in the most literal sense.
Just giving it a cursory look, seems like they don't take injuries into account. They're projecting a full-season's worth of wins for both Richardson and Nerlens. They also seem to love Moultrie, but don't project him to play many minutes.
So their health might get us to 28 wins or something, but 43 wins would be impossible, and not taking injuries into account doesn't explain thinking the Nets, Pacers and Warriors will be sub .500 teams.
Yeah, I'm not defending their projections. A couple years ago someone did a study comparing their projections to just taking last year's standings and saying each team will have the exact same record this year. Last year's standings were much more accurate.
is it possible we have the worst starting backcourt, worst starting frontcourt, and worst bench in the league? that sounds impossible, but when you break it down by position, we have probably the worst starting PG, SG, SF, and C, or at least bottom 3 at each of those positions (this is assuming you count Thad as a PF. if not then just swap PF in for SF on that list). and easily the worst bench.
I had some doubts that Hawes was a bottom 3 center, but it's hard to find 3 starting centers worse than him. Ironically, the one starting center that's easily worse, assuming he continues to start, is Depressed Fan fave Biyombo.
Bottom 3 might be a stretch for Hawes but he's certainly in the bottom 10 somewhere in a group that includes Kris Humphries, Chris Kaman, Robin Lopez, Dalembert, and Kendrick Perkins.
Starting wings, I would put Turner above DeMarre Carroll, Earl Clark, Fournier, Nick Young, Gerald Green, and maybe Alec Burks.
In regard to PG and SG/SF (whatever you're not calling Turner), the Sixers are definitely bottom 3.
A few people have speculated about OKC as a Thad destination should we trade him, so it'll be marginally interesting to see Steven Adams, Perry Jones, and Jeremy Lamb.
So I was thinking about how depressing it is that even if we finish with the worst record in the league this year, we'll only have a 25% chance at Wiggins. It kind of makes it difficult to obsess over losses (and therefore to care much about the season at all) when the difference between worst and second worst is just 5 percent. Then I wondered, what's the point of the lottery? Is there any evidence that it discourages teams from tanking? I don't know of any teams that choose not to tank because of the uncertainties of the lottery. And isn't there a reasonable argument that it encourages tanking? Realistically, only two or three teams a year are talent-poor enough to finish with the worst record; even if you sit your best players for most of the second half of the season, a team like Boston will usually have played its way out of its chance at the bottom spot in the first half. But with the lottery, more teams have a shot at the #1 pick, or at a top 3 pick. So because of the lottery, Boston, for example, will have a greater incentive to trade Rondo midseason than it would if it knew that even with all those post-trade losses, it would only get the 5th pick. The only good incentive, if you don't like tanking, that the lottery creates as far as I can see is that it reduces the incentives to an all-out race to the bottom between teams like us and Phoenix. Presumably if Phoenix knew it would get the #1 pick if it finished with the worst record, they'd be more willing to openly tank by doing things like sitting Dragic and Bledsoe with phantom injuries fairly early in the season; they'd be kind of crazy not to. But if all that's at stake is increasing their chances of the #1 pick by 5 percent, they're somewhat less willing to do things that look really bad. I don't really know, though, that discouraging egregious tanking among a few teams is worth creating an incentive for half a dozen to tank in somewhat less open ways. Or the unfairness of letting a team that already has some decent pieces pick up the #1 pick.
Also, if you're worried about really egregious tanking at the bottom, you could still have a lottery without creating a system where 5 teams have a 9 percent chance or better at the number 1 pick.
But the Sixers went out of their way to have a terrible team, they didn't lose their franchise player due to a freak injury or see him leave in free agency. Tanking is uninspiring and non creative and it's the NBA's way to deter teams from following that path and exposing the leagues's major flaw.
It does hurt some teams like Charlotte who are terrible and have no other means to turning their franchise around. The conspiracy theorist in me believes that the NBA likes to control the lottery, which is why I don't think the Sixers will get the #1 overall pick next year. If the Sixers get Wiggins they will always be referenced as the team who built their success on tanking.
San Antonio had injuries, OKC was "rebuilding", and Chicago was "lucky". The Sixers on the other hand traded away their best player who was 23 at the time for a guy coming off an year-ending ACL injury.
Pretty sure this is unprecedented in the major sports. A team trading its best player who was that young in order to get worse. I can't think of another example. Hope it doesn't work out like it did for the Browns (which is the closest example I can come up with recently).
Pretty sad that I have no enthusiasm, zero excitement, and could give two shits about the opening game of the year, even if it's preseason. Thanks Sam.
In Pelicans/Jrue watch, Tyreke Evans was injured in last night's preseason opener and will possibly miss at least the preseason, and Jrue had 13 points, 3 assists, 6 fouls, and 8 turnovers in his Pelicans debut. They still won though, behind 26 points from Anthony Morrow, who I did not know was a Pelican. Eric Gordon still has lingering injury issues and is going to miss the first two weeks of preseason.
Some amusing quotes from Mike Brown on his #1 pick, whom he doesn't seem to be too high on:
Cavs coach Mike Brown said the lack of pressure will benefit both the rookie and the organization. “It’s a terrific situation for not only Bennett, but for us,” he said. “He can come along slowly, and if he blossoms early, it’s a bonus for everybody. “We don’t have to rely on a teenager because of the depth we have.” Unbeknownst to Brown, Bennett turned 20 years old on March 3. The veteran coach said he’s keeping a close eye on Bennett. “Yesterday, I felt he was in a fog, running in 15 inches of mud,” he said. “It’s down to nine inches of mud now." . . . “If he earns minutes, I’ll find him some time,” he said. “The great thing about it, it doesn’t have to be 35 minutes. Anything we throw at him is a bonus. He has a lot of time to improve.” . . . Brown cautioned not to get too hyped about Bennett making uncontested shots after practice.
“He has a nice stroke,” he said. “When you’re shooting the ball with no defense, that’s one thing. When you have to shoot the ball after busting your behind, doing four or five or six things in what we call multiple effort on defense, then contesting, rebounding and running the floor, and then Serge Ibaka is moving out on you to contest your shot, that’s a different shot than shooting it out here with no defense. Yes, he can stroke it a little bit.”
Brown also says he'll only play Bennett at the four, which is where Tristan Thompson, Varejao at times (oftentimes once Bynum is back), Tyler Zeller at times, and Earl Clark at times play.
FYI, the team the Sixers beat today (by one possession) lost to Real Madrid by 39 earlier in the week. Real Madrid being a first level "Euroleague" team and Bilboa a (good) second tier"Eurocup" team. Bother teams are in the ACB, which is the top Spanish Leage, but compete at different teirs in European competion.
Don't the best teams from Eurocup get to play in Euroleague the next year, while the worst Euroleague teams drop down into the Eurocup level?
If I understand it right, Bilboa is sort of at the level of the Sixers for most of the last 10 years, in that they are stuck in a mediocre level were they are the best of the worst but not at a level where they can compete with the best.
Well, it's kind of difficult to explain because in Europe the entire system works differently than in the US. But since i am from Europe and i am relatively familiar with how things work, i'll try to explain (i guess it might be interesting for you if you are interested) as briefly as possible.
In the US (as far as i know) you have 30 NBA teams and the D-League. The rest are college teams. In Europe there are thousands of professional and semi-professional basketball teams.
There are all kinds of leagues and organizations in Europe, but in general, the domestic leagues are the basic competitions for all teams. The best teams from the domestic leagues get a chance to play internationally the following season. There are three general tiers of international competition: the Euroleague that consists of 24 teams, the Eurocup that will have 48 teams this year and the Euro Challenge that includes some lower ranked teams. The simplest explanation (albeit not 100% accurate) is that the champions (and sometimes runners up, third placed teams etc.) of the best ranked domestic leagues in Europe get to play in the Euroleague. The next best teams have a chance to play in the Eurocup etc.
Almost every year there are 5-6 teams that play in the Eurocup but are actually better than the 5 worst teams in the Euroleague. This is mostly a result of teams getting better (or worse) compared to the previous year when they earned the spot in the international competitions.
Bilbao is around 5th-6th in the ACB, which is the best and highest ranked domestic league in Europe. 4 teams from the ACB play in the Euroleague (you can't have more than 4 teams from a single country), so Bilbao can only play in the Eurocup (where they ended up as runners up last year). But because the Spanish league is strong, they are still better than some of the participants in the Euroleague.
This might help you understands some of the basics for example (even though it's Wikipedia):
Oh and to reply to what you said, promotion and relegation work in the domestic league. For the most part the Euroleague and the Eurocup are not directly connected through promotions and relegations, but rather teams that can't qualify for the Euroleague get to play in the Eurocup. The only exception is the winner of the Eurocup that has a chance to play in the Euroleague in the following season.
You can get a sense of what the NBA thinks about tanking from its bizarre series of offseason report cards. We get an F, Orlando gets a D, the Jazz get a D+ for letting Jefferson and Millsap walk, while the Knicks get a B for adding Bargnani and Artest and Minnesota gets a B for a lot of meaningless lateral moves. Comments include:
"Carter-Williams and Noel have plenty of potential, and the Sixers will likely have two more Lottery picks in next year's (much stronger) Draft. This is basically the route the Sonics/Thunder took to The Finals and there are certainly worse plans to have in today's NBA.
But no one knows just how good the two rookies will be in three or four years. What is certain is that, right now, this is one of the worst teams in the NBA." No shit. And it just continues like that for every rebuilding team.
Looking way too far ahead obviously but, say they end up with the #3 pick and the Pelicans make the playoffs (both very likely), what kind of magic can Hinkie possibly create that would result in more than incremental baby-like steps for the next several years? You're holding cards of 1) a raw non-shooting PG that most keen observers don't place much faith/belief in going forward, 2) a frail also very raw big man with a repaired knee that isn't your prototype true 5-man (due to said size/weight issues) that will have trouble as a 4-man on D (struggle guarding quicker stretch 4's or stronger 4's on the blocks) and on O (shooting range is highly questionable outside of 4-5 feet), who is better suited as a help-side defender and lob/oop finisher at this point in his career and 3) an undersized power forward that really isn't a small forward on an 8 mil a year deal.
Basically you miss on the premier talent(s) in this draft and the pick coming to you is out of the lottery in the teens so you possibly add two more pups to the already immature litter. It seems like we should just go ahead and relegate ourselves to this supposed NBA team being nothing more than a minor league D-League level franchise for the forseeable future (4-5 years). This guy can be consumed and drown in all the analytics he wants but this chance he's taking is more subject to backfire and not work out moreso than it succeeding. Luck plays too much of a factor for it not to.
I've long grown tired of the mediocre cycle this squad was in but I have not shared some of the same excitement and optimism concerning this new GM that others in the community have. I often ask myself if this GM was not of the analytics background/variety and he tore the team down by trading its' best player on draft night would the optimists still hold the "plan" in such a positive light?
Color me very very skeptical and only time will tell but I sense a long stretch of futility and laughingstock of the league status. There's too many things that have to go right and the ever-present luck falling into place for it to succeed.
(Just wanted to share some bottled up feelings from the summer that I haven't put out there.)
Agreed. The Sixers could be the next OK City or could be the next Sacramento. Odds might be more likely that the Sixers will be the next Sacramento.
Frankly I was pretty irritated when Hinkie made no moves in the summer to at least acquire some demonstrated players of reasonable competence. However, once I resigned myself to this radical experiment, I was at least pleased that he acquired young players like Wroten and Darius Morris who might develop into players with fair NBA careers if given the chance. With all of the injuries, if he doesn't acquire a player or two with some presence upfront, these games are going to be really brutal. A frontline of Thad, Hawes, Olbrecht, and Lavoy is not going to hold its own.
They will have one high and medium first rounder in the summer of 14 and sufficient money to acquire some players who can make a difference. It's possible that they could be relevant sooner rather than later. We'll see.
Hypotheticals I know, but let's say they get two decent players in the upcoming draft with the high and medium picks, and add a veteran or two who as you say can make a difference. They'll have 4 really young guys who can all still be considered raw, inexperienced and not a game-changer yet, if ever (as most phenoms don't usher themselves into the league and take over right away while leading their team to near-contender status). They'll have a difference maker possibly, or two (as you said). They're likely, if they're fortunate that the rest of the conference is watered down enough, to only be right back to where they were - a borderline 8 seed.
And this is probably, at a minimum, 4 years from now when they will be relevant enough to be first round fodder for a true contender. So I guess what I'm getting to is, when you get back to that point as that proverbial dreaded 8 seed, you're no longer bad enough to get a high lottery pick and you're not good enough to contend. You're back to the same point you were 4-5 years prior when you had a young player on the rise that was maybe worth building around. Elite free agents still won't want to come here and if any of the four pups aren't showing signs of stardom (the 2 picked this year aren't likely to be stars) what do you do then with as little trading that goes on due to the CBA?
There's just too much luck and too many things that have to fall in the right place for this risk to manifest itself into the ultimate reward. And since I'm of the belief that it is not likely to work, going through numerous years of futility and at my age and being that I'm an avid watcher of their games live, it's just not worth it. The risk may have needed to be taken (maybe not as drastically as he's done/doing) but it's just too damn high for my liking, that's all.
(Wishfully none of this worrying matters and we get a star with that high pick next year and it's all for naught)
You could be exactly right. In three or four years we could be back to where we were two or three years ago.
But, that's the beauty of Hinkie's moves (for himself anyway). The near future looks so bad that if the Sixers in three years hence return to where they were three years ago, that will look like a success by then.
I just hope the front office is a bit more ambitious than that and successful in getting compatible free agents to come here. The fans deserve something after putting up with last year and the coming year.
"I often ask myself if this GM was not of the analytics background/variety and he tore the team down by trading its' best player on draft night would the optimists still hold the "plan" in such a positive light?"
No, for the very sensible reason that we wouldn't trust a Billy King-type GM to make the right moves after obtaining a top pick. For instance, if Hinkie or Morey had been the GM in Cleveland during the LeBron years, instead of the geniuses who surrounded LeBron with Larry Hughes and Antwan Jamison and Shaq and Ben Wallace, I think it could've worked out. But in a small market, LeBron was probably always doomed to failure with a bumbling GM.
Other than that, I don't think we really know anything about how good or great the #3 pick might be in this draft, so the prospect of our only picking third shouldn't fill us with dread. Maybe Dante Exum will be a superstar in the NBA. He's an 18 year old guard whose main weaknesses are his strength and his shooting - two things that he can improve on hugely at his age. I don't even think we know for certain that Wiggins will be the #1 pick. Maybe Randle has a much better season. Or maybe he has a disappointing season and falls to third. Maybe the team with the second pick is run by a nut and we end up with the consensus #2 in the draft at 3. These things happen all the time.
True on the Billy King-type, but why (or how can you) seem so convinced that a Hinkie or Morey would make the right moves? I mean, we have no history or background to go off of being that the guy's never held such a position. This is kind of what I was hitting on when I mentioned the thoughts of lending credence to this unproven guy just because of his analytics background. That's basically what I think you're saying here. He's an analytics guy so he gets the benefit of the doubt. When to me, in reality, he should get no more of a pass for what he's done/trying to do than if Thorn, Collins, or DiLeo or any other non-analytics guy attempted it. At which point, I think there'd be tons of doubt and reluctance to buy in to it. But the guy that pores over numbers and formulas is granted blind faith?
(And I don't want to ever ever end up with the "consensus" #2 again. Ever.)
Well, I basically believe that analytics have reached the point where, while they're neither perfectly accurate measurements of how good players are in the present, nor (and much less) perfectly accurate predictors of how good players will be in the future, they're quite alright, and a lot better than (a) looking at raw numbers or (b) scouting a player's skills. So I think a GM armed with these tools that many GM's don't use to nearly as great a degree will tend to get the better of trades, and tend to make smarter free agent signings than the majority of GM's, and possibly draft better. And I think that's borne out to some degree by the record of analytically minded GM's, like Orlando's GM, Morey, Denver's former GM, and Presti. Even the Jrue deal is a promising data point. I mean, you trade a point guard who's STILL fighting to prove he's a better player than Ty Lawson (and on paper looks a lot worse) for the best prospect in the draft and a low lottery pick in the best draft in years. How'd we get so much? It seems like a classic case of a team overvaluing a guy because he made an All-Star team once, and only because several better players were injured or in career-worst slumps. But that's how non-analytic GM's value players, and I think Hinkie can repeatedly take advantage of these inefficiencies.
I don't know that analytics will ever supercede scouting a player's skills for me but that's for another day. Maybe combining them, yes, but the old school approach will be hard to shake.
I'll ask you this, if Noel caps out as a Dalembert-type (hardly no offense, quality shot blocker, decent rebounder) and the low lottery pick ends up as say about as good as a Thad, would you consider that a good return for Jrue? A no O Dalembert and a tweener with a little O but no boarding prowess Thad for Jrue at his age.
I guess the only rebut I've got is that Hinkie can't take advantage as you say if he doesn't have any accumulated pieces worthy of fleecing someone else.
It's just interesting to me to see the rope being extended and faith given to such an unproven guy all in the name of analytics. Because there's no proof in the pudding yet, which doesn't mean we should all be full of doubt but we also shouldn't be so full of confidence either. It pretty much all falls back on hope - especially for the believers, not so much for the skeptics.
"I guess the only rebut I've got is that Hinkie can't take advantage as you say if he doesn't have any accumulated pieces worthy of fleecing someone else."
I don't know; Morey managed to flip Landry for Martin, lousy players for picks, Martin and picks for Harden. Thad and Turner have some value. Thad probably has quite a lot.
In 2014 draft watch news, the team many think is our stiffest competition for the 2014 NBA draft (even though they have approximately three legit NBA players to our one, plus two decent rookies), the Phoenix Suns, are blowing out their international matchup, Maccabi Haifa. At the moment the score's 58-34. To put this in some sort of perspective, Maccabi Haifa lost by just 8 to the Warriors in last year's preseason. The Pelicans still don't know when Tyreke Evans will be back, but Anthony Davis, unfortunately, is having a really great start to his preseason. Jrue, picking up from last year, had 13 points and 4 turnovers tonight on 5-13 shooting and zero trips to the line.
eddies', the Sixers were horrible last year. they've advanced past the 1st rd in the playoffs 1 time in the last decade (to the 2nd rd!). with this upcoming draft i think you could argue they picked the perfect time to finally blow up a sinking ship.
even if they don't end up with a superstar in this year's draft, the point is acquiring assets the way Houston did, so that when a trade for a superstar does become available you have the assets to swing a deal. you need a superstar in this league to contend. that's the only thing Hinkie is concerned with right now.
A couple of thoughts off the top of my head regarding the team building discussion from above:
1. I absolutely agree that luck is a major factor in the NBA. That's why you have to do the correct and smart moves and hope that eventually they will work out. It's simple statistics.
2. "Analytical" GMs do not base their decisions on analytics. They use analytics in addition to other tools like traditional scouting, psychological evaluation etc to form their opinion and decision. The reason why a lot of us have faith in Hinkie is because he is open-minded and not opposed to use new modern technologies. He's never said that he will not use the traditional stuff - all the "analytical" GMs do use scouting heavily. It's as simple as - Having more information is always better.
3. @eddies' heady's Why do you think the fate of the Sixers franchise depends on the 4 players picked in the first round in 2013 and 2014? The point of the picks is not just how good a player can become, but how good of an asset the picks and players are/will be. The Sixers will not be rebuilding for a long time. This is a one or maximum two year deal. After that they'll try to contend.
Which alternative avenues can they pursue?
- They can package some of Turner, Hawes, Thad, Noel, MCW and the 2 picks in 2014 for developed stars.
- They will have plenty of cap space they will be able to use on high end free agents or to acquire additional assets which can later be used in a trade for a star.
What i am trying to say is, maybe none of those 4 young players will even be on the team in 2 years. It's all about finding the collection of players that can make the team a contender. Contrary to popular belief, championship teams are not made through the draft. They are made via good trades, but in order to facilitate good trades you need assets which often means high end draft picks.
Some examples of players that might be available in the near future (next 2 years) via trade, free agency or both: Love, Aldridge, Horford, Millsap, Gallinari, Westbrook, Ibaka, Lopez, Hibbert, Monroe, Favors, Hayward, Asik, Batum, Deng, Dragic, Pekovic, Lawson etc. Things change fast in the NBA and players want to move on to greener pastures. You don't think you can build a contender out of some of those players?
Think about how Houston acquired Harden, Boston acquired Garnett and Allen, the Lakers acquired Gasol, the Clippers acquired Paul... It's all about waiting for the right moment and having the assets to pounce. The biggest reason why people like Hinkie is because he is all about the assets and not because of his analytics or draft scouting ability.
Of course it takes a ton of luck to win championships. It also helps to be in a favorable location (city/climate/taxes.) There is no sure fire way to go from bad to contention in less than 5 years. But yo can try to put yourself in the best position "to get lucky", and on the flip side there are approaches than hinder your chances.
For the past 30+ years all of the titles have gone to teams who have one of a small handful of players (MJ, Magic Duncan, Kobe, Shaq etc.) From 1991 to 2010 in all 15 of the 20 champions were won by MJ, Kobe or Duncan... not coincidentally they best 3 players of that era. Now Lebron is the current great, and he has won the last 2. This is how the NBA has always been, and I don't expect a major sea change anytime soon.
What makes it worse is that even if you draft one of those players they may not chose to stay. Kobe forced his way on draft day to LA and was refusing to play for a number of teams. Shaq forced his way to LA. Lebron and Wade colluded their way to Miami as part of a plan they concocted while in the dream team that included Wade's owner agreeing to blow up his team and sacrifice losses for the promise of Lebron in a few years.
But you also have guys like Duncan and Durant who seem genuinely committed to working with their small market teams to build a lasting contended- so it can happen... but you have to put yourself in the best position you can to find one of those players. Because you can't change Philly as a destination with regards to where it is seen as a city, taxes, climate, nightlife, etc. Most stars are fine with Philly, but they won't force their way here like they would for LA, Miami, NY or tax free Texas.
So you maximize what you have through ownership spending on facilities, coaches and management. You treat your players first class and you try and build a buzz around your franchise that makes it a more appealing destination. And the most sure-fire way to build a buzz around a franchise is to have a young rising star. Not a second level player like Jrue or Iguodala, but a real rising star in the tradition of Iverson or Barkley.
The team gave it its best shot by trying to build around Jrue and Bynum. If they could have found success then they might have had a 6 year window to attract a superstar to team with them and push them to contention. It was, at least on paper, a plausible approach. But after that failed they were left with only Jrue and minimal assets. Building incrementally from there would have all but guaranteed a repeat of the Iguodala years, where they waste a good player's prime trying to climb to mere respectability. In the meantime, your picks are in the 10-18 range, minimizing your chances of making a franchise altering pick.
So they swung and whiffed with Jrue/Bynum and were faced with a long, slow slog back to maybe the second round of the playoffs in 3 years if they made incremental additions. So that left them with 2 options: either go "Boston/NJ" and try and flip your young roster for some established vet second tier superstars or go their current tank route in order to maximize the chips you have down of different roulette numbers in an effort to condense what would typically take several years of stinking into one or two giant years of crap.
It was not really that hard of a choice, given with their diluted talent base from losing picks and assets in the Bynum trade they lacked even the opportunity to go the Boston/NJ route. It took courage to trade Jrue, knowing that there was a good chance that their all in risk would not play out and they would lose their jobs if they did not get the right guys in the draft in the next 2 years. Just like with Bynum trade, they could make the best choice available and still lose there jobs over the consequences that are not fully in their control.
So if you want to root for a team that has some control over its destiny in terms of building towards a contender then I'd recommend either LA or following the team that drafts the next generational player (or just root for OKC as they will be good for a long time.) It tough, because in the 80's the Sixers were one of those franchises that had a stacked deck and that all ended in the 90's. But to stay a sane Sixers fan now is to know that they will be either bad or mediocre unless they are both lucky and smart. And one without the other won't cut it.
Even though I'm not a big fan of tanking and trading away 23 year old all-stars, I am at peace with where the Sixers are. If they aren't able to land a franchise player in this year's draft then the process is going to continue the following year. My hope is that they can get that player before they turn into the Charlotte Bobcats. It's just going to be an era of terrible basketball.
Perhaps MCW, Noel, Thad, this non-franchise player we draft, and the other non-franchise player we get with the Pelicans' pick (draftexpress currently projects Mitch McGary at 13 - this is a very deep draft) would be a pretty fun team to watch. And maybe at that point we'll be able to make some deals with all these young appealing assets to land a franchise player, or maybe just the promise of all these young players, plus all our cap room, will lure a free agent franchise player here.
They tried with Brand and Iggy and then with Jrue and Bynum. Having been through all of those seemingly wasted years makes it easier to swallow the bitter pill of tanking. But it won't be pretty. At least we don't have to worry about the team being a disappointment.
Also i'd like to add that i'm not a big believer in tanking in general, but i am a believer in doing the right things at the right time. This year is the right year to "rebuild" and get a high draft pick (asset). Last year was not. This is the biggest reason why i am on board with the way Hinkie handled this and not on board with, for example, what Charlotte did
And most importantly, the NBA is a dynamic league. The quality of the rosters and the perception of the teams can change on a yearly basis. The key is being on the front line of those who can make those sudden moves happen.
Here's a bleak thought. Under Collins, the Sixers had the worst shot selection in the NBA - a long-two centric offense. We got to the line less than any team in the league for several seasons straight. Part of that was personnel, but (a) some of that bad-shot-happy personnel is gone (Jrue) and (b) a lot of it was coaching. Now we have a new coach who's pretty smart, and what do you know, we took 20 threes in our first preseason game and 30 in the second, got to the line 46 times in the first preseason game and 31 in the second. Even with less talent on the roster, our offense can't help but improve substantially from last season if this keeps up.
That was what I was saying. Just to compare apples and apples, in our first two preseason games last year we shot a total of 33 threes, 48 foul shots, and 141 shots inside the arc. This year in our first two preseason games, 50 threes, 77 foul shots, and just 105 shots inside the arc. On the other hand, we have had 46 turnovers in our first two games, so that could help.
A smarter offense doesn't necessarily mean improved offense. Not yet anyway. The team will take a ton of threes, but won't make many because they are not good shooters. They will at times force shots at the basket and might have a worse "at-the-rim" percentage than usual. They will turn the ball over a ton. And they can't rebound to save their lives.
They'll be bad. Really bad. The positive here is that they will be bad in a fun way, not the dull Sixers of the past few years.
Assuming that the team hits just .333 of its threes, every time you switch out a long two for a three, you're replacing a shot that, on our team, is only worth .7 points per possession (and on even the best midrange shooting teams is worth .8 points per possession) for one that's worth 1 point per possession. And that's nothing compared to what getting to the line more will do to our offense. On the other hand, increased turnover rate, and our defense should be awful.
Don't worry i get the math, i just don't think the Sixers will shoot anywhere near 33% from 3 as a team. I won't be surprised if they end up below 30% as a team.
Hawes will be in the low 30s
Anderson will be in the mid to high 30s
Turner might be in the mid 30s, but he won't attempt a ton
MCW, Wroten, Thad will be mid 20s despite taking a lot of threes
Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but i fully expect the Sixers to have a bottom 5 offense this year.
Thad will be mid 20s? He's a career 33% three point shooter. The two years he actually shot them, 34% and 35%. Wroten and MCW have always been lousy shooters, this is true, although maybe we're coaching them up. Even supposing we only shoot 30%, though, these are still significantly better shots than the bread and butter of our offense in past seasons. That said, we could easily go from being the lowest-turnover team in the league to one of the worst teams with the ball, and we will be a lot worse in other areas too, so I am pretty confident that we'll be bad.
I'd also like to point to the fact that Hawes, Turner and Thad all attempted multiple long twos in the game, whereas none of the others even thought about it.
Can't agree with the jab at Turner here; he has gone to the line 22 times in 2 games. He also appears to be in decent shape. If he has a normal day from FT yesterday, his stats look better. I'm not upset at what I've been seeing from Turner so far(relatively speaking, of course).
Noel, "endearing"
MCW, "emerging leader"
Turner, "a generic player"
White, "we are going to help him"
Brown's optimistic rhetorical start brings to mind the late Mister (Fred) Rogers, who was one heckuva coach himself. In an ironic situational twist, "Coach" Rogers (b. 1928) shared a neighborhood, Latrobe PA, with trailblazer-to-be Arnold Palmer (b. 1929) during the Great Depression. Now how's about them apples, young fellers!?!
24 players (!) Lucas's 2nd & last year here. That wasn't a pro team; Lucas ran a YMCA Unlimited squad. Pitiful roster. Yet JL went 94-49 in previous 2 with Spurs. Classic example of talent & lack of talent determining outcomes, coach as knickknack.
FYI: open 87ers tryout Saturday 8 am at Philadelphia Community College gym; I'll be wearing high black Cons, a red/white/blue headband, sharp elbows, an unflappable handle and a tickle-the-twine J (including a Sam Jones banker).
Today in Jrue/Pelicans watch, Anthony Davis continues to impress in preseason action (29, 9, 4 blocks), and Jrue continues to stink it up (9 points on 14 shots, 5 turnovers, several of which were steals by Oladipo). Also, they announced plans to start Stiemsma at center.
Oh and Avery Johnson. Why does ESPN always find the most boring ex-players and coaches, while NBATV and TNT almost always pick pretty interesting ones? Jalen's ESPN's one token engaging ex-player, but he's a worthless analyst and he's not even that engaging. I would take Malik Rose over almost all of the NBA talking heads on ESPN, and he's not even that good.
Ok, he's obviously added muscle somewhere. Not sure that's where I would add it if I were an NBA player, but, if it's indicative to added lean muscle mass across his body, great. He looks thinner in the face. Will it make a significant difference on the court? Remains to be seen, but everyone who was complaining about him being doughy and out of shape will be happy. . . Or maybe not.
Maybe Turner will have a real breakout season with all this added lean muscle mass he may or may not have. And the thinner face will help him navigate in tight quarters in the paint; we all know the head's the biggest part of the body.
"McNamara's band", as often is the case, may bend the Seventy-Sixers' trombones tonight. But who's counting? Enjoy your Friday night. And raise one for the late crewcutted Charlie Swift. And Bill "Soup" Campbell. And "Big" Al Meltzer. And the late gentleman Jim Barniak. And the late Andy Musser. Respectable broadcast announcers, all. The green & white vs. the red, white & blue - pro basketball's apogee.
Some observations after watching the Sixers play the Celtics:
- Thad has developed a right-hand dribble move.
- Hawes looks quicker and in better shape.
- Turner's shot looks better: still weird but a quicker release, holding it in front instead of over his head. No improvement in accuracy however.
- The team has a fast-break mindset, lots of long passes. Nobody held the ball, very little dribbling except for Turner.
- Carter-Williams' offensive skills will translate. He goes to the basket with confidence and under control in spite of trying some difficult moves. Always looking to get into the paint. Very athletic.
- Look for a lot of alley-oops this year. MCW can throw it and he'll probably be good on the receiving end too.
- Vander Blue is going to stick. Seems very smart. Drew a couple of shooting fouls with his quickness, calls rookies don't usually get. (One was against another rookie on a 3-point attempt. The other was on ace defender Bradley.)
- Wroten and MCW are both fearless with the ball. There will be a lot of turnovers this year.
- If the Sixers are going to be "really bad," the Celtics might be historically bad. The Sixers' coaching staff seemed much better prepared. I didn't see a single possession where the team didn't seem to be on the same page. The Cs looked like they don't have a plan.
- The Celtics didn't do well with their rookies and FAs. Olynyk is okay but makes Hawes look fast. Good shooter. Pressey is not good. Dave Cowens likes him though. (What an improvement over Tommy. Don't know if he's permanent or just doing a few preseason games.)
- They're going to give up a ton of offensive rebounds. Nobody boxes out.
- Brad Stevens needs some new suits. Looks like he gets his ties from the 6.99 clearance table.
- Royce White is not in shape. Good ballhandler, looks to pass. Terrible shooter.
- Thad is definitely in shape, as always. He's going to have a great year. His jumper still looks shaky, but he's playing in the paint almost all the time now. Lots of interior passing and quick layups.
- Suddenly the Celtics have almost no 3-point game. Jordan Crawford is their only threat from deep. Courtney Lee gives them a little bit there.
- James Anderson is a very good athlete and shooter. Good on the break.
All in all a well coached team that plays strong team defense and keeps the ball moving. They'll score a lot of points because they'll have a lot of possessions. They'll give up points on turnovers and defensive mismatches, obviously. Noel will fit in nicely and give them an interior defender. (Cowens isn't sold on him as an intimidator, says he's a weak-side shot blocker and will have trouble defending NBA bigs.) There's a nice collection of point guards - Darius Morris has speed and skills, Wroten and MCW are big and can play defense, Vander Blue has great energy - a very athletic group. Khaliff Wyatt looks like the odd man out, but isn't he a 2? Blue plays more like a 2 also but seems to have a good handle. I think they're gonna be fun to watch.
I'm surprised about Blue. I went to see his first round game in the NCAA tournament this March; he was clearly the only NBA prospect out there, but in spite of dominating the last few minutes of the game, he didn't really appear to have any offensive skills. His college stats and scouting reports bear that out. I thought at most he might amount to a "3 and D" (plus some stuff in transition) guy in the pros if he ever got his shot down. Generally speaking, we seem to have gotten a good group of guards off the scrap heap. Turner might be the worst player among them (excluding Wyatt, who's like a poor man's Turner), even if he's the most talented. I'm a little concerned that we won't be able to lose 60+ games with this group if we don't trade Thad.
1. They will turn the ball over so much that it will make it almost impossible to win a game. What we are witnessing is the exact opposite of what Collins was preaching. And unlike in preseason, opposing teams will kill us with points off turnovers when the real stuff begins.
2. The Sixers generally tried harder than the opposing teams in all 3 games. Wroten for example looks great in this setting but he will struggle somewhat to replicate this production in the regular season.
3. As weird as that sounds trading Turner, Hawes or both midseason will do more than enough to lose a ton of games after the allstar break.
- Thad definitely has improved his handle. He also made some nice interior passes. This could be another improving aspect of his game.
- Turner looks to get to the basket far more and surprisingly visibly restrained himself of arguing with the refs and ran back instead. That's good for him as it was always his biggest weakness IMO. He did have one terrible possession when he dribbled out the clock and shot a contested long two though.
- I've been mildly impressed with MCW so far. He looks like a legit floor general. Doesn't force tough fancy passes, makes the simple plays, and looks capable of penetrating to the rim at will. He will need to start thinking about generating some offense for himself eventually though.
- Wroten had his worst preseason game so far, yet was still ok. The good comes with the bad with him, and the Sixers will need to figure out how to get him under control at times. Made some really impressive passes though.
- Anderson looks like a legitimate rotation wing player. Good role player potential.
- Hawes was his usual self.
- I think Brown has done a good job so far coaching the team. They are clearly buying in and all on the same page.
Really impressed by what Brett Brown has been trying to do with the team. It might translate into bringing out skills from middling players that would have not translated if they were put in more traditional roles on a more talented team.
My question is whether having a good system, coach and chemistry will actually translate into many more wins given the low overall talent level. In an ideal world it results more watchable basketball but not many more wind. But the other possibilities are either more wins than they expect or seeing the style of play disintegrate as the weight of losing caused the team to fracture.
More wins than expected unless we get completely eaten by turnovers. I don't really get why we're moving Hawes and Thad behind the three-point line, unless it's about boosting their trade value (although maybe that is the whole point). We seem to be doing a lot of stuff that's designed to wring a few extra wins out of this roster, and that isn't really stuff that we need to be putting in place now for future seasons.
I understand what they are doing with Hawes. They want to teach their wings to penetrate and break down the defense. Hawes can't set a pick and he can't finish a good look inside. But he can pull his defender away and clear out the lane by seeing up far away from the basket. And give he hits a few threes then it's a bonus.
Also, he makes for a drive and kick target that they otherwise don't have. It is not about wins as much as being able to run a set where the guards can drive and then either finish, dish or kick out for the open shoot. Right down Thad is the only guy they can dish to and Hawes and Anderson are the only guys they can kick out to.
Very good points. But you do have to wonder whether teaching our guards, only one of whom stands a chance of being a big part of our future, is worth potentially coming away with only the 4th pick in this draft. To be sure, whether Wiggins is all he's cracked up to be is a pretty open question. I can recall similar hype for Rudy Gay early in his college career. Nevertheless, if we get outtanked by Phoenix or Boston and don't get a top two pick, we're all going to be pulling our hair out.
I'm not yet convinced that their preseason play will translate into more wins than was previously expected. But I'd hope that if they do start winning some games then that will up the value of guys like Et and HAwes to where they can trade them for value and bring the team back to the bottom. I do worry that ET will somehow sell himself as a long term option.
As for Thad- if they have any hope of a quick turnaround by drafting a star and then bringing in FA in the next 2-3 years then they should keep Thad around. He's a winner.
I think the Sixers visibly tried much harder than the opposing team in all of the games so far. That won't happen in the regular season. The game will inevitably slow down due to much better transition defense and teams will scout for the Sixers weaknesses. And right now they have no idea who those weaknesses are because a arge number of the players have never really been scouted by NBA teams.
I think we could finish with a better record than the Suns, Bobcats, maybe the Jazz, even the Celtics if they trade Rondo and go all-out for the top pick. The Bobcats for example, even with Al, are not a team with any particularly efficient options on offense. Al's the best thing they have and he makes about half of his shots, can't shoot threes, barely gets to the line, and is going to slow down their offense, which is a problem when transition opportunities is the main way (only way in some cases) most of those guys score. They play, and sometimes even start together, multiple absolute zeroes on offense (MKG, Bismack), which always makes it hard on the few scorers they have. The one spot of hope I see on offense is Ben Gordon potentially having a comeback year, but other than Jannero Pargo he's the only shooter they have, so he may not come by a ton of open shots when Al gets doubled. Their defense was league-worst last year, probably should improve a bit with new coaching, but has no real reason to get better when Jefferson and Zeller will likely be their starting 4 and 5.
As far as Turner and Hawes building value, I hope so. I have been really happy to see how positive Brown is in interviews about those guys. Every interview he's saying how Turner's maturing into "a real leadah." It probably helps their trade value more than we think, especially when Turner hasn't had the greatest reputation as far as personality goes in the past.
"Nevertheless, if we get outtanked by Phoenix or Boston and don't get a top two pick, we're all going to be pulling our hair out."
Speak for yourself. The day that whether or not the Sixers get Andrew Wiggins (vs. someone else) means that much to me is the day I officially declare myself a loser and draw a big "L" on my forehead to warn everyone.
What I remember is that my life progressed just fine without the Sixers getting Tim Duncan and that I enjoyed too many Sixers' games to count after the 1997 draft.
Yeah, in the larger scheme of our lives missing out on Duncan was hopefully not a crushing blow, but as fans of the team it's about as devastating a turn of events as anything that happened to the franchise in the last thirty years, right? Wiggins might be a superstar of that order, we don't know yet, but you'd certainly like to draft a player who has a chance of being that good.
I guess the bottom line is that I intend to try to enjoy this team this year as I have tried to every year that I have had access to watching them (although last year was really tough) and I won't regret a single win that they may achieve. Anytime that they have a chance to win a game, I won't be hoping that they lose it while I'm watching. If they manage to win over 25 games and don't get one of the top three picks as a result, I won't feel any angst about the season.
If New Orleans doesn't get a top five pick, the Sixers should have two well placed picks. If Hinkie can't get value from that and the amount of cap space he'll have, then he'll make Billy King, Stefanski, and Thorn look like Red Auerbach.
I just really don't get fans like you, who will root for, or at least "won't regret," an extra win or two that could cost dozens or even hundreds of wins, chances at winning the Finals, etc. I mean, suppose you were a Spurs fan in 1997, the year they won 20 games, third worst in the league, and won the lottery and drafted Duncan. Fourth worst in the league, Denver, won 21 games; they drafted Tony Battie. Fifth worst was us; we won 22 and drafted Van Horn. If you're watching the last two games of the season in 1997 in San Antonio, knowing that a couple extra wins could knock you down from a 16% chance at the #1 pick to an 8% chance, how do you not ardently root for losses? One or two extra wins that year would have cost the Spurs four championships, a fifth Finals appearance, and, just going by Duncan's total win shares over his 16-year career, 184 regular-season wins and 33 playoff wins. I can sort of understand fans who don't like to see their teams rebuild, but once you know your team is going to be pretty awful in a given season, how can you not regret a win in a meaningless season that could have catastrophic effects on the team for decades to come?
I don't mind when a young team improves and wins a few extra games late in the season as they develop. I also don't mind if they lose a close game or two that helps their lottery position. So i'm fine either way.
What I do mind is when they start benching young players in favor of some vets on one year deals who will squeeze out a few wins to try and save a coach/GM's job. For example bring in Joe Smith in the AI trade for a half a season and playing him heavy minutes down the stretch so that a terrible team can win a bunch of meaningless games (winning 18 of their last 25 After they were assured of missing the playoffs.) Those types of empty wins bug me. Sacrificing playing time for rookies so that you can say you won over 40 games bothers me.
The same could be said of Andre Miller in that deal. Of course, at the time Iguodala looked like he might have real star potential on both ends of the court, so I guess I get why we chose to get veteran value back. But it led to a wasted half-decade.
FYI - For those that have the automatic renewal of League Pass on Directv, they show some, but not all, preseason games every year. Last night's game was televised but not sure about the rest of the preseason games yet to be played.
I don't think so. I no longer have the full TV/broadband league pass, but my Choice broadband subscription says that the games don't start until Oct. 29th. Maybe the full TV League Pass subscription shows all preseason games but I doubt broadband only does. Pretty miserly in my view.
A few comments on all the great previous ones; Eddies, I tend to be a glass half full guy and think Noel will be more of a Ratliff type than Sam type player. And M.C. Williams looks like more of a true p.g. at this time than Jrue did in his early stages, but Xsago made a good point that getting to the rim and creating his own offense is vital to him being more than a soso p.g. in this league.
I think of how Hinkie handled the 2nd round of this draft, skipping over some talented players [T.Mitchell, R.Ledo, R.McCullom,G.Rice Jr.] and can't help but think while watching our team that if a guy shows potential this year he may be moved. That is my biggest conflict with our teams plan.
With a limited amount of true bigs in the league now a Thad, Nerlens tandem could be scary defensively if we find a star to build around. tk76, could you ever see Turner playing a T.Parker type role under Brown if M.C.Williams becomes a standstill 3pt. threat like he tried in the recent O.K. City game.
I want Turner gone next year because of his personality and unwillingness to fit in on the court but wonder what he has to do to get resigned. Does Sam have numbers written down somewhere on a piece of paper that Turner has to reach? Shooting % [48%], free throw attempts, turnovers etc. that he would resign him at?
And finally my boy Spence; did you guys catch the stat given by the announcer during the Okl.City game. Spence was the only N.B.A player last year to average 11 ppg., 7 reb. per game and 1 block per game in less than 28 mpg. last year. A backhanded compliment to me because if your coach knows this and doesn't play you more that is telling. But I hope his development continues and he proves worthy of resigning in a backup role.
Mitchell had 10 and 10 last night in 26 minutes. I thought Hinkie was genuinely trying to come away with the player he liked the best in the second round, and there were some pretty positive scouting reports on Kazemi, but then we stashed him in Europe so he could "develop," which doesn't make any sense because there's nothing there to develop, really. So I don't know what the strategy was there, but I can't imagine we deliberately passed on better players in the second round in order to solidify our lottery position. It's not as if Mitchell would have been devastating to our tanking efforts, he's just a raw kid.
You got it all wrong. Kazemi was not stashed to develop. He was stashed so that his contract will start later, when the team will be trying to win. Right now, Kazemi would be of little value to the current Sixers, but potentially on a 3 year minimum deal he could really help the Sixers in the future (remember the Parsons deal).
It's what they said, though; Kazemi needed to go so he could develop in Europe. (Why wasn't the D-League an option here?) And don't we have a number of players who are of little value to the current Sixers? Right now, what value is James Anderson to the Sixers? I guess you could say we need shooters for MCW to learn how to pass to them, but I'm sure Kazemi would also indirectly help other players' development to some degree. I'm probably (and I'm not being sarcastic about this) missing some distinction about CBA rules between the two players, though.
1. What did you expect them to say? We sent him oversees because we want to exploit some CBA inefficiencies?
2. In order to send Kazemi to the D-league you need to sign him. He couldn't have gone to the D-league without a contract from the Sixers. So that wasn't really an option. If Kazemi wanted to play in the D-league, the Sixers would've had to renounce his rights.
3. Anderson is a potential asset. They had a chance to sign him now, of waivers. They won't get the same chance next year. They didn't draft him and they don't hold the rights to him. If they did, they probably could've done the same with him.
It seems like Hinkie is deadset on finding a bunch of hard playing role players to put around his future star. Aldemir, Kazemi, Wroten[defensive specialist?] and lastly Lawal all fit that category. I felt he didn't want talent in the 2nd round but maybe it was more the type of player he wanted.
Out of the players I mentioned McCollum intrigued me the most. A coaches son and strongly built. But Xsago's point about a timeline contract wise makes sense and leaguewide a lot of 2nd rounders are overseas from this draft and the new C.B.A. may make this a more common practice.
The NBA can't get the name of Jrue's new team right; the top story on nba.com right now is entitled "Davis' big game helps Hornets dump Hawks." Jrue had his first good preseason game though.
Yes. They went 38-3 at home last year. Huge homecourt advantage with the air and the pace they play at. Oddsmakers give them 47 wins and I think that could be a little low.
And he probably didn't get minutes due to his performance in practice and his limited playing time as compared to his age...a team like OKC is going to play the players who give them the best opportunity to win.
I'm not so sure OKC always played the players who gave them the best opportunity to win, because they played Perkins a lot at that position, and everyone seems to agree, and every statistic seems to show, that they were better with Collison on the court. They also played Thabeet in significant minutes. That said, I never heard anyone say that the Thunder should play Orton more.
In short, he's the perfect acquisition for your 2013-14 Sixers: a young player of some potential whose former teams didn't have a place for him, a la James Anderson, Tony Wroten, Darius Morris.
And, then, of course, there's the undrafteds who haven't caught on anywhere yet, like Mac Koshwal, Vander Blue, Khalif Wyatt, and Hollis Thompson
I suppose, I just think that he was on teams without 'great' competition for playing time and his lack of playing time would have had more to do with being unimpressive in practice than being young...now if he had been blocked by a kevin durant or lebron james i'd have more hope that it was just youth :)
He was on teamS, multiple teams, without great competition? His rookie season he was playing behind Dwight Howard and Earl Clark, a skilled third-year player. Keep in mind that Orton was virtually a prep to the pros guy; he played a miniscule 500 minutes behind Cousins in his one year of college basketball. His second year he was playing behind a very well-respected, if wildly overrated, center in Perkins, plus-minus king Collison, Ibaka was the center in some lineups, you have a 7'3 shot-blocker in the mix who was picked second in the draft and who OKC still had some hopes of developing, and there was Perry Jones, a raw rookie with enormous upside, to throw a few minutes to as well. I don't really think that the available evidence points one way or the other as to whether he's capable of being a solid backup big. I think it would be easier to make this sort of argument about Anderson, who failed to catch on over three years in a very friendly offensive system to a player with his skills, and lost battles for minutes to Gary Neal, Nando De Colo, an aging Diaw, Danny Green, etc. Nothing was really blocking him from being a successful role player for the Spurs other than his completely failing to become one.
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
Found a link of firstrow. It is frustrating to have paid for league pass broadband but not have access to the games. Silly NBA pushing people to view by "other avenues."
A recommended Sixers-related read: 10/16/13 mainlinemedianews.com article on Billy Melchionni ["...recalls glory days"] authored by Lou Orlando. Chock-full of interesting tidbits.
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
For those who had wondered what five teams to watch on League Pass this year, the Grantland duo of Lowe and Simmons have a rankings system for you to peruse
They seem to skip the most logical and practical criteria:
1) Are you a fan of a certain team but live outside of its local TV broadcast area?
2) Do the team's games regularly appear on national TV stations?
If the answer to the first question is "Yes" and/or the answer to the second question is "No" then that team is a logical choice to be among ones picks.
Another factor would be WHEN one is most likely to watch games. If one is most likely to watch games later at night, then picking multiple West Coast teams would seem to be a logical choice. If one is restricted to earlier hours, then picking teams in the Eastern and Central time zones would be indicated. Others might want to scatter their choices across time zones for flexibility.
I don't know why anyone would pick Miami or the Lakers unless they were an out-of-area fan of those teams because those teams frequently are on national TV. My guess is that Houston will now make lots of national appearances given that they have both Howard and Harden and Brooklyn will as well now that they are so loaded. NBA promotion is very superstar oriented.
West Coast teams are also more likely to be on national TV because there are fewer of them to choose from for TNT/ESPN late games.
The only reason I've bought league pass for the last six years is because I'm a Sixers' fan living far from their local TV area. Otherwise I would just settle for an assortment of Timberwolves games; the games appearing on TNT, ESPN, and NBATV; and college games.
I don't think they ignored #1 so much as took it for granted that if you were out of market you'd pick your favorite team, but I believe TK mentioned there's a '5 team' package - so he was asking input on what 5 teams to pick - I thought this might help him (I'm pretty well known as being no fan of Simmons, but Lowe doesn't suck, but I believe most things on Grantland that Simmons writes try to be funny/tongue in cheek, usually failing, so I'd look at the article though that eye)
I actually haven't gotten league pass the past couple years, being on the west coast, it's just not all that easy to watch the sixers games, and I really had no faith they were headed anywhere, I'm actually more interested in seeing them play this year for my own reasons than the past two seasons.
Well, sure, but one doesn't need League Pass to watch the NBA in general. Unless you are a really strong but out-of-area fan of a particular team and/or you want to be able to watch some of the teams that are rarely shown on the national networks, there is really little reason to get it. Between TNT, ESPN, NBATV, and one's regional cable sports station, there should be enough games to satisfy the overwhelming majority of NBA fans.
I agree that the Sixers might be more compelling this season than some seasons past. Everyone going into the season knows that they will be bad, so there are no expectations and low potential for disappointment. So, if a subset of their players manage to emerge or surprise, that alone will bring some enjoyment. Last year was so truly awful because there were significant expectations going into the season but they were slowly, steadily, but relentlessly crushed as the season went on. Had the coach and management decided to chuck the season and start the rebuilding process after the all star break last year, the last couple of months might have been more enjoyable.
I have few expectations about players emerging or surprising (though Thad might take the opportunity to take that next step), I'm interested in seeing how Brown works, hopefully he's a long term hire who knows what he's in for in the first couple seasons, so getting an idea of how he fits the puzzle of the plan is what I would look forward to.
I get what you're saying about the locals and nationals but dear god I get tired of watching the lakers and clippers :)
Warriors would be near the top for me. Iguodala had 4, 7, 14 assists and 5 steals in just 28 minutes today against the Lakers. It's a really great situation for him.
Listening to Brown's part 1 (of 2) on TrueHoop TV i'm reminded that if the ownership wants to make a move that says 'we're in this for the long haul' - getting the sixers their own practice facility as opposed to renting one would be an impressive move in my mind.
cool - not a big 700 level reader - I hope they let em do it - that kind of investment makes me feel good about ownership - assuming they're going to pay for it and not try to leverage the city to foot the bill :)
That is a lot of money for someone who hasn't actually shown a lot in his few years in the league. I know it's not about the offense with him, but career TS% of .537 for a 6'10 guy is bad. In both of his last two seasons, he's shot .286 on jumpers, total, from any range. And he takes a ton of short baseline/in-the-paint jumpers.
Thought of a nice Turner trade possibility. Turner for Greg Monroe? Detroit has Smith on along term deal and there is no way Drummond is being moved. If Turner comes out the gate averaging 18 to 20 maybe Dumars takes the bait.
You'll see. Or maybe we'll all see. Draft Express isn't the end all be all when it comes to evalutaion and scouting. They miss on prospects high or low all the time.
I said 'should be' for a reason, I guess as in if I was doing the picking. Kid is nice and well-suited for the next level. I said on here a while back that he'd end up a top pick after this season is done. Who knows at this point, it's just an opinion.
And not for nothing, but when Coach K comes out and states that he's going to run 'his' offense through Hood and Jabari Parker, as young as both are, that's saying something don't you think? (Sulaimon and Cook are no slouches)
That's ridiculous. I went to Duke and do think our players get a bad rap, but Hood's upside is Martell Webster - a long shooter with merely functional slashing ability. And even if he were a sure bet to be the next Martell Webster, which of course he isn't, there are at least ten players in this draft who a GM could get fired for not taking over the next Martell Webster. And of course Coach K is going to run his offense through a fundamentally sound 6'8 shooter and the second best recruit he's had since Luol left. He loves players like Hood, and Parker is really good. I mean, since when does a freshman/redshirt sophomore have to be a top 5 pick in a stacked draft for Coach K to empower him in his offense? That's a terrible argument. Singler and Paulus played pretty huge roles in their freshman seasons, didn't they?
Kyrie would be the best, Jabari Parker would be the second best. Huge dropoff from there to third, and I'm not sure who third would be. I guess McRoberts might have been the third best coming out of high school, and, for all I know, might still be the third best post-Luol player Duke has had depending on how Singler develops, though his time at Duke wasn't great at all.
I'm not really shocked by that. It might wind up being a good thing for the kid, best not to expose him to this group of extraordinary losers, excluding Thad.
Perhaps MCW isn't an extraordinary loser. This is probably contrary to popular opinion, but maybe Royce isn't either. He's overcome some serious issues to at least stick around on the fringes of NBA basketball, which isn't nothing. That said, if Noel does play or practice with us for any significant amount of time, I would like to sign someone like Jason Collins to impart some good work habits and NBA big man know-how. Kwame isn't exactly a good role model.
If they're going to get a role model for Noel, I'd prefer it was someone who was actually good at basketball. Don't think teaching him how to be a journeyman is a positive thing.
Actually, if you watched the game last night, Thad looked like he fit right in with the rest of the losers. His numbers were distressingly similar to Turner's until he got a few cheap baskets in garbage time after the game was out of reach.
As much as I would have liked to have seen Noel this year, keeping him out for the year fits more with the theme of this being an audition year where winning isn't a goal. Noel is practically guaranteed to be here next year regardless of what happens this year.
Only the Sixers could trade their top player for an injured and inexperienced big man, pay the acquired "stud" 3 million dollars to heal slowly and to mature for 12 months, and plan to have him to work on his foul shooting and overall comprehension of the game for which he is employed in the arrested meantime. Allegedly, Noel and agent were seen at the Registrar's Office this summer applying for course audit status. You might think this organization is being run by a runt wrestler and a pallid intramural basketball player.
I wonder if it's a brilliant move as in they got a franchise center, a future 1st round pick in a good draft, and increased their chances of getting #1 overall pick in the lottery for a guy that might only be a borderline all star his entire career.
Or terrible move as in they are going to end up with 4 draft picks who aren't even as good Jrue Holiday.
Can't judge something like that based on hindsight though...whether it succeeds or fails should have no bearing over whether you think it was the right thing to do - that's now - and crotchety old guys aside - the sixers took a huge risk of course - but to me - not doing anything would continue the mediocrity and Jrue Holiday isn't a 'franchise building block' on a team, he's a good player who I think possibly had his best season (at least from the way people look at it in the media) and his value might never have been higher.
The sixers came away with the player many thought was the best raw talent in the draft who dropped due to injury and some teams being so obsessed with losing in the first round of the playoffs they made baffling decisions and a pretty strong (probably) first round draft pick in what is projected to be one of the best drafts (depth wise) in a long while.
I've yet to see anyone who doesn't have some sort of inherent bias towards mediocrity, or complaining, say the sixes made a bad move cause Noel might miss this season - the only reason he was available at 6 was because of his injury - healthy he wouldn't have been there
True and we can't forget that they got him AND another first rounder in that trade. Although it's unlikely that Noel will have the career of Blake Griffin (either in the NBA or as a commercial spokesperson for Kia), we should also remember that Griffin missed his first year after being the top draft pick (and the Sixers' recently departed coach missed most of his after being the top draft pick).
I'm OK with watching Hawes, Daniel Orton, or whomever else they manage to scrounge up man the position this year.
Oh, one more point about that League Pass discussion: I checked the national TV schedule and the Sixers have ONE (that's right, ONE) appearance on the combined stations of ESPN, TNT, major networks, and NBA TV. That one is an early season contest against the Bulls on NBA TV. So, if one lives outside the Philly broadcast area and wants to see the Sixers for more than one game, League Pass is mandatory. In a way this network banishment is justice. If you're not even going to try to be competitive, you don't deserve to be broadcast to the general public.
I'm not sure where the Blake Griffin comparison came in (I guess cause they are both going to miss their rookie seasons?) but Blakes an 'offensive juggernaut' with mediocre (at best) defense whereas Noel is more likely a defensive anchor with limited offensive game :)
So - if I don't get league pass I'll get 5 sixers games (2 lakers, 2 clippers, and NBA TV), thanks for that update.
Yea dude, I just don't see any way around getting League Pass this year. Was thinking of getting the broad band one, as opposed to getting the full League Pass through my cable provider. Does anybody know if the games are watchable, via AppleTV?
I checked out the league pass options, and I know that you can get an option that includes AppleTV. I guess I didn't phrase my question correctly - what I meant was, via AppleTV, how do the games look? Do they look like streaming bullsh*t? Is it even worth watching?
If you have fast cable internet, they stream pretty well. There were some problems with the signal a couple of years ago (on their end, not mine) when the image would get scrambled but there were no problems at all last year.
You can also watch archived games with choice broadband but I think I had to wait until the day after the game last year.
Can't answer your question about Apple TV as I usually hook up my laptop to an extra monitor while I watch it.
I have an apple tv (regret not getting the roku for the amazon option but that's neither here nor there) and have never really had any streaming issues whatsoever except when I use the airplay option from my ipad - for some reason the sound often loses sync - i'm using a wireless internet connection for my apple tv though
I would stress running a wired connection to it if there's any chance you can. Not for bandwidth reasons -- most wifi connections have more bandwidth than your home connection -- but for latency and congestion problems. The broadcast nature of wifi can really lead to unpredictability.
Back to the OP's question, the quality really depends on your setup. On your internet provider, on your internal netowrk, etc. I have had no problems with it in terms of buffering, sync, or quality. I have never tried airplay to my ipad, however.
I did figure that direct would be better but not so possible with the set up Ihave, we primarily use the apple tv for netflix and most of the time once it starts up it runs fine. the 'big' tv is a sony with the built in stuff
Thanks for the answers, guys. Sounds like it's going to work just fine. I've seen some pretty junky looking streams before, so I was a bit skeptical.
We all know the Sixers are going to be god awful, and in past seasons, the vast majority of the games were not available in HD through League Pass anyway, so the streaming option, this season, seems about right.
Last year I bought LP through verizon, and used it almost never, streaming the entire time instead. This year I didn't even bother. The broadband more or less works very well, in my experience.
League pass with a good connection is much better then what you see on internet streams- unless you are using true peer to peer streaming which is more involved aand not available for many games.
If Netflix works better for you than League Pass then it could be that Netflix has a good amount of buffering to cover for your network irregularities while league pass does not buffer their live feeds (much.)
Hinkie's flock bleats "brilliant." Unbudging pessimists and crusty spoilsports mutter "terrible." A voice of 76ers experience in its entirety avers "somewhere in between the two extremes, with a genetic predisposition towards terrible."
Prediction: Brett Brown, despite Downeast smarts, work ethic and good intentions, will be worn to a nub and gone by the time Sixers next seriously contend. "In the year 2525, if man is still alive... ."
Note: historically speaking, "franchise centers" have demonstrated the ability to put the ball in the hole; Nerlens is no magician in that regard.
What about Bill? You know, the famous one who averaged 15 points a game on only 44% shooting. He as was not half bad although Wilt did not think as highly of him as some.
Nerlens Noel
Sharone Wright
Felton Spencer
Kaman
Big Country Reeves
Mel Turpin
Joe Kleine
William Bedford
Stacey King
Tractor Traylor
Ekpe Udoh
Funny that Noel would be a bust if he ended up the second best center of the 11 drafted at #6. I'd say adjusting expectations for a center picked #6 is in order.
And I was wrong about Deke. He was drafted #4. Basically, if you are a center with a pulse you don't make it to #6 most years.
I was going to try and rank those guys, but they are all too rank to know where to start. Funny how Kaman is head and shoulders better than the rest and yet he stinks.
Had the keyhole jumper of a praying mantis but found buckets in the darndest times with running and hard work, sometimes called heart and soul (and occasionally glass assistance).
%s generally lower across board in that era as shots were habitually contended; small-clue (or -care) individuals didn't populate the 8 teams; and general conditions, including travel and lodging, weren't nearly as cushy. Also, premium was on team play/winning; individual starring/showcasing (and wild remuneration) in infancy.
%s generally lower across board in that era as shots were habitually contended; small-clue (or -care) individuals didn't populate the 8 teams; and general conditions, including travel and lodging, weren't nearly as cushy. Also, premium was on team play/winning; individual starring/showcasing (and wild remuneration) in infancy.
I would defer to your analysis as I was not alive back then to watch the games, but my perusal of statistics of the time tells me that the overall game pace was much faster, hence shots were being taken much more quickly. Wouldn't that indicate poor shot selection was part of the reason for low shooting percentages as well? I also wonder how good the actual shooting was in those days. [It always amazes me that Bob Cousy shot 37.5% for his career.] And why would less selfish play (which I don't doubt was the case) result in lower shooting percentages?
2 out of town writers, Duane Eddy & Lee Hazlewood, on last night's Sixers performance:
"Take out the papers and the trash, or you don't get no spending cash. If you don't scrub that kitchen floor, you ain't gonna rock and roll no more! Yakety yak. Don't talk back!
Just finish cleaning up your room. Let's see that dust fly with that broom. Get all that garbage out of sight, or you don't go out Friday night! Yakety yak. Don't talk back!"
Perfect moniker for Sixers this year: the Coasters.
Although the Sixers cuts yesterday all make "basketball sense" (as the great Ed Stefanski would say), I think the team is less interesting. If you are going to be terrible then at least have some guys who are crazy athletes or just crazy to stir the pot. They did't even keep the hometown guy or the guys with the interesting names... We lost our Dumas and Mad Max and have been left with lazy, doughy boring guys like Lavoy and Kwame. I guess they want to be both bad and boring.
I understand the logic. The guess with guaranteed contracts can be better used in trades and are getting paid anyway. None of the guys they cut is likely going to develop into much, and are unlikely to get picked up by other teams. Also, they want even keeled guys since they will have to deal with tons of losses. I can't imagine that you want explosive personalities on a terrible team. But I just want something that generates a bit of interest. Some diversion from the actual product.
I thought Vander Blue showed something in a couple of games and had a chance to develop into a player who could provide energy and excitement. I'm very surprised he was cut.
The Wolves pick was a steal. They got that for taking Wes Johnson and trading away Robin Lopez. They also have LAL's 2015(top 5 protected) 1st round pick for trading Steve Nash.
So one could possibly safely say that they only end up with their own likely high pick and the Pacers. Unless the Wizards surprise which isn't out of the realm of possibility. I think the Wizards could hang around for that 8th seed.
Hearing rumblings the Sixers are interested in recently released PG Lorenzo Brown from the Timberwolves. Anyone else hearing this? Not sure how reliable on this end.
That's a crazy amount of money for a guy that only played 32 games and averaged less than 25 minutes last year. Don't know why they were in a rush to sign him. they would have been $10 million under the cap next year.
Yeah, i agree, even if he stays healthy and plays great, it's not like teams will forget about his injury history. He wasn't getting more than 15 million per season no matter what. I really liked him in Milwaukee when he was healthy, but i think this is a major risk for the Warriors that might come back to haunt them.
It's possible (though that McGee deal was terrible). But that's still 1-3 million less than he actually got now. My point is simply that there was no reason to rush this at that price. They could've waited till next season. They couldn't have lost a ton in terms of salary no matter how he played this season. Their only potential problem would've been if he didn't want to stay with them no matter the price. But if that were the case he wouldn't have signed this deal in the first place.
I'm not sure how much more really with his longer 'missed game' history - plus - what are the odds he stays healthy this year? I mean they can't all be fluke injuries right?
Surprise surprise. None of the (hardly-viewed-at-all) touted are worth slobbering over, let alone trash a season for, my strong suspicion. Some elite physical specimens, I suppose. Honed basketball players/individuals, nope. '13-'14 Sixers tact: Hinkie's folly. Philadelphia will teach the Stanford smartypants a thing or two.
Yes, you're right, the season hasn't started you and you (and a few others) already know better than the people hired to do the jobs, it's a wonder you don't all have NBA jobs already.
I know folks like you would much rather the sixers continue mired in mediocrity, but the point is not to tread water...the point is to try and build a champion, and you're right Philadelphia will teach Sam Hinkie that no matter how much cap room you clear, free agents won't come play there when they can go to other places, with better weather, fan support, tax benefits, night life, whatever
Philadelphia is no more attractive a free agent destination than Milwaukee or Cleveland or Detroit - to players at least - which is as shame since those three cities combined are a pit
Sport is founded on competition. Without competition, what have you got? Empty exercises. (Empty seats this season will vouch.) Product on floor is the responsibility of GM. Philadelphia's new GM has ceded to next year and a better hand. That's small of him, no matter how grandiose his vision for future seasons. The time is ALWAYS now. Philadelphia, 50 year franchise, and its fans deserve more than the roster Hinkie is serving up. Tickets = garbage for sale.
Philly is in fierce competition with Phoenix. And Boston and LA are are entering the race.
The best way to tank is to be a decent team with one great player who is lost for the season... then get lucky and win the lottery. That is how the Spurs, Heat and Bulls have gotten top picks in recent years.
I'm presuming the LA team you are referring to is the Lakers and as long as they have Nash, Gasol and a Kobe that can play, they're going to win enough to not contend for top 5 worst in the league - they'll probably end up like 10th in the West...the lakers can't make an appearance of tanking.
I was somewhat surprised to read on Philly.com that Royce White likely will join the Sixers D-League team. Maybe they cut him because they new no one else would claim him off of waivers? I had assumed them cutting him meant they were completely cutting ties with him.
Good point. I liked Vander Blue but am happy H.Thompson made the team. He rebounds well and hopefully his shot gets more consistant. His length and the school he is from [good coaching] both give me hope he could be a Danny Green type story a year or so from now.
20 TOs in 90-some minutes. Takes some doing, most of it bad. 30-some % from field, 40-some % from line. 1 game ejection. 1 missed trans-Atlantic flight. 1 solo bus trip to Cleveland. Girlfriend abuse accusation. Overweight. What a fine prospect. Shrewd pick-up by mastermind Sam.
"Calling Dr. Fish. Calling Dr. Fish."
At the time he was acquired from Houston, Royce White was "the other guy" in the transaction.
They received the rights to Furkan Aldemire, a decent Euro big who will likely come stateside in a year or two (when the team is hopefully more ready to compete.) At that point they can sign him to a cap friendly rookie contract.
They got White for nothing. His salary is being paid by Houston and he is an expiring contract. Houston needed to clear the cap space in order to get Dwight Howard, so that is how the Sixers got him at the rights to Furkan for nothing. They gave White a chance to see if he was worth having a round, and it appears he is not.
So you can't really criticize Hinkie for acquiring White, but you can for being part of the Houston front office that wasted a first rounder on him 2 years ago.
Good briefing, doc. I had known Rockets were picking up tab on White. Still, he was expensive at 'nothing'...Sixers should have been paid a sum for occupying him for two months.
Furkie Aldemire, huh. Can't wait. Do you think he'll be as good as Uwe Blab?
Mr. Aldemir, from what I have read about him, seems to have the shoulders you requested earlier for our front line in a turkish R.Evans kind of way.
Two questions; What benefits our rebuild more, keeping Kwame and his expiring to possibly be part of a deal or buying him out to audition a young player. Boston seems to have located an interesting one in Favarani, sorry if I mispelled his name.
What would you be willing to offer G.Monroe per year if he goes on the market next summer. I watched him recently and he seems to have the total package offensively from 15 ft. and in and could really be helped by Noels' mobility next to him.
Just what they need - the broad back of Sabonis combined with the feisty spirit of Uncle Tonoose! Hope he's not the second coming of Radmonovic or Milicic or, heavens to Murgatroid, Christian Welp or Efthimios Rentzias. Ol' Tom Meschery of China, Wilt's teammate on Warriors, was one of gutsiest international players (his battles against Rudy Larusso were not to be missed).
1st Q: I don't know. The cold water splash to onlooking others of dumping Brown and eating his Collins-gifted salary is hard to gauge for its effect, especially with this 'I got mine' generation. Might move the needle. Might not. The presence of a non-producer would seem to be a drag on progress, but the Hinkie Fold is in. Kwame's perfect roster material actually..."The Blase Behomoth."
2nd Q: I don't know. Like what I've seen of Monroe during Sixers contests; appears solid, hits the Willis Reed J. There's nothing like a big man vice-gripping a ball, pivoting, and throwing an outlet pass to a squirt who knows what to do with it. If Monroe checks out in a closer, broader inspection (What's he do against better teams? Will big weight weigh on him? What's he like as a locker room influence/personality?), the going rate for an emerging big man would be fair. What's that currently? 4 yrs for 90 million? (smile)
My Q to you: Why would Pistons make him available in an industry with a lack of legit big men? Drummond isn't enough. The combination of the two (along with Smith) - frontline depth - is what makes the Pistons intriguing. Is it budgetary squeeze/cap concerns? I'd keep him in Motown if possible. Or, check that, Mo's-town!!
Everything I've read seems to lead to the Pistons liking Drummond's upside to Monroes'. If this Josh Smith at the 3 experiment fails and Monroe wants max money it could get interesting.
We are going to need scoring eventually but if Hinkie sees Monroe as a 10 to 12 million guy he probably wouldn't overspend.
I was hoping Favors would hit the open market and i would've offered him the max. Monroe? Not sure but i guess he could be worth the max as well. The 2nd contract max is not as dangerous as the 3rd contract max.
I have not really watched Favors play that much. I guess his per minute numbers are somewhat promising, but is he really worth committing that much= especially given where this team is at?
I think he will have a step forward this year and be worth the 2nd contract max or at least be very close to it. I felt like Utah got a steal with that contract.
I also think he would fit greatly with what Hinkie tries to build here. He's still very young (only older than MCW) and his skillset fits well with the new approach to the game under Hinkie/Brown. Bottom line, I am of the opinion that you can build a contender with Favors manning the middle and he won't hurt the teams short term tanking goals so that the team can acquire another young player with star potential to provide help on the offensive end.
As I said, it was reported at the time of the trade that the Sixers were planning on cutting White and the trade was about getting Furkan for free. I don't know anything about Furkan besides his draftexpress proile and that he was drafted late in the second round but has supposedly raised some eyes in Europe with his physical play.
Maybe that report was wrong. Maybe Furkan will end up never amounting to anything. Who knows. I labeled Furkan "a decent Euro big", meaning that he has had some success in Europe.
Since when did a team blog become a reliable source? Particularly when said blog "previously heard from a source" not even worth naming. Rumormonger-ing is more like it.
FWIW That article site Dei Lynum as saying the team was unlikely to keep White. But when LB is actually reporting news they tend to be reliable. they are credentialed by the team and have decent contacts- as does Derek Bodner, formerly of LB, no of his Broadstreethoops.
It seems like the team, the beat writers and the main bloggers are all on pretty good terms currently.
Joke material? I'm willing to compare the work I've done covering the Sixers over the last 3 years to yours. I was recently told by someone at ESPN who I have a tremendous amount of respect for that I was the best writer covering the Sixers. I value his opinion on what I do more than I value yours.
in her defense, ASIDE from you - LB is a little more humor oriented...and not usually really good humor but the seth mcfarland i am a grown up but still a stunted juvenile type too
To be fair the Sixers have been somewhat of a joke these past 2 years. Last year our supposed franchise center suffered a set back in his rehab because he got injured while bowling. As far as the comedy it's hit or miss. Sometimes I think they try to hard.
Nope. If I were looking for a cookie, I wouldn't be bringing something up that happened a month ago. It was brought up because my own relevance was brought into question.
I respect the work that you, Brian and even the more comedically focussed writers and bloggers put into covering the team. Having written a few blog posts, I know how time intensive it it, and it makes following them more interesting- especially given the weak product that has been put on the floor for much of the past decade.
I agree and I actually enjoy the comedic writing a lot too. Whats much worse in my opinion is when theres no variety at all and all i can find is 10 reports on the same topic. I personally dont care to read 10 opinions on a new signing... Unless its being discussed in the comments (which is different).
What i do like is when i can go to various blogs and find lots of articles that are different. For example, i remember one point at which philadunkia had some strange articles about elton brands latest shoe deals and other strange news i didnt see at other blogs. This site and LB were covering most major stories, whereas this site was more mathematical and unique but libertyballers would discuss the general facts in more depth. In any case i really liked that variety and appreciate all the different types of articles to choose from. a funny unique article is much more interesting to me than reading another long essay on some guy that every blogger has written about.
I think Houston was in love with the idea of getting a guaranteed lottery pick and having that pick replace James Harden on a cheap contract. Kevin Martin was just a one year gap. OKC probably wouldn't like the idea of paying Iguodala 15 million.
I wonder if Jrue would have been a better trade piece for Harden. Keep Iguodala and have him lure in Dwight Howard. He was one of the guys Howard said he wanted to team up with.
James Harden (13.7)
Andre Iguodala (12)
Thaddeus Young (9.2)
Nikola Vucevic (1.2)
Dwight Howard (20.5)
Young would then become trade bait preferably for a stretch 4 like Anderson or Ilyasova.
This might not have worked since Iguodala was probably determined on leaving Philadelphia after his contract(I don't blame him)
Source? I assumed Lou opted out thinking he would get a contract in the $7-8 million per year range and settled for the best contract he could get on the market. I assumed it was the Sixers who decided to part ways with him because of the pending Bynum deal and to let Turner develop.
It was a long time ago but it was reported by someone in the Philly media. The Sixers offered something like 3 or 4 years at 6 million per year, but he went to the Hawks on a 4 year, 5 millions per year deal. He simply wanted to go home i guess.
Not sure the trades would've worked the way we would've wanted them to, but i'm pretty sure, he would've had plenty of assets to work with: Jrue, Iguodala, Thad, Harkless, Vucevic, Turner, Hawes and now MCW. Considering how much he values athletic wings with potential and lack of shooting ability as well as dominant rebounding bigs, i'd say Vucevic and Harkless would've had a good chance to be keepers. He probably could've get a first rounder for Iguodala so assuming the other stuff went down as they did in reality the sixers would've had: Noel, MCW, Vucevic, Harkless, Thad, three 2014 first rounders and Turner and Hawes.
The guy thinks Iguodala is a hall of famer. He has a (minimal) grasp of statistics and very little else going for him.
But, considering a few posts ago you called me a "clown" putting out "joke material", I'm not sure I care too much who you prefer to read. Have fun on the internet.
Funniest thing about this whole offseason: The Sixers have gotten more press this year when they are tanking than in the past 5 years combined when they were not tanking.
How many times has a 23 year old all star on a cap friendly deal been traded away for draft picks? Especially when that player has not reportedly demanded a trade? It's odd and a very blatant attempt at tanking.
Or it's a recognition of the direction your franchise is headed and that your 'all star' will never have more value as he does today and maximizing it so you are better positioned to build towards the future (and grab the presumptive #1 pick in the draft if he hadn't been injured at #6)
There's a difference between rebuilding and taking, it requires finesse and nuance, something lacking at ESPN (save for Kevin Pelton it seems)...
Best bet... Take all the other bad teams on the under. Their managers will be looking for ways to lose to catch up to the sixers, and there ou is set higher. Except then all your money is locked up and wasted the entire season, so actually just bet against those teams all season long.. Never too much on 1 game. :)
Just to be clear, i should have said "perhaps the best bet". This was just an idea came up with mostly on the spot, and if mid-tier teams try to tank too that could have an opposite effect. the sixers are the only team that seems to have a clear plan right now. i havnt seen hardly anything about other teams making moves to get worse, but i fully expect that picture to become more clear as time goes on.
Just to be clear, i should have said "perhaps the best bet". This was just an idea came up with mostly on the spot, and if mid-tier teams try to tank too that could have an opposite effect. the sixers are the only team that seems to have a clear plan right now. i havnt seen hardly anything about other teams making moves to get worse, but i fully expect that picture to become more clear as time goes on.
I put the O/U of total words written about the Philadelphia 76ers by Brian Ward, between now and the time he is arrested for his plot to murder Evan Turner, at 17.5. Who wants some of that action?!
I think it's Boston actually. I have a hard time believing anyone in the media even knows Phoenix' GM yet. And Ainge is someone who could afford to say these things and not get fired.
IIRC Boston has openly tanked in the past by holding out healthy players (?Pierce) late in the season before the Oden-Durant-Horford draft. It was the year before they traded for KG and Ray Allan. Ironically, their failed tanking (they were leapfrogged in the lottery by Seattle and Portland) led to an about course that turned out to be brilliant.
That same season the Sixers were in perfect position to "tank" when they had the worst record in basketball at the time of the AI trade. They elected to try an eke out as many wins as possible and used a late season run to drop to the #12 pick (Thad.)
That's what happens when the head coach is worried about his job security and the GM doesn't give a fuck about the team because he already lost his job.
In fairness to Mo, that run probably saved his job for 1.75 additional seasons.
The KG and Allen trades were the same year as the Oden-Durant draft, 2007. Boston drafted Jeff Green and traded him for Allen, then won the '08 title.
I thought it was Hinkie talking until I read "Look at the Sixers." It fit them to a T. Never thought of Ainge, the Tankmaster. Had to be him. The Celtics tanked in '96 - '97, too, to get Duncan. M. L. Carr admitted it recently. And in retrospect, the '78 trade of the entire team to the Clippers looks like a tank job for Larry Bird. Who knows? (One of the 2 franchise swaps I can think of, the other being the Colts for the Rams by Carroll Rosenbloom, but that didn't involve trading rosters, as the Celtics-Clippers deal did.)
I guess this is the end of DP, at least for this year. It's opening night and no post. I'll check in next year. Everybody will be all psyched up about the new Noel-Jabari Parker-Mitch McGary frontcourt.
"Maalik sucks and from the moment he was acquired (and through the Bynum trade), Steve Toll, made it clear that Dorell Wright was the 76ers best offseason acquisition."
The context of that was that Maalik's preseason earned him the chance to get NBA minutes. Prior to that, I had said he wasn't an NBA player. I said that at the time of the draft and up through the preseason that Wayns wasn't an NBA player. So if you're saying that I was a proponent of Wayns, you have that wrong. I was simply saying that with his preseason play he deserved a chance.
As for Wright, again, I was always a huge fan of Wright. Wanted him starting from day one. Again, in context that quote about Wright was saying that he wasn't getting enough publicity and was being overshadowed by other offseason acquisitions (namely Andrew Bynum), not that I didn't like Wright beforehand.
"Steve Toll said Evan a Turner is awful, his rebounding is incredibly overrated (borderline useless), his defense is not good and that won't change."
Steve and I said the same thing about Turner. The quote you used from me was putting down Turner, so I'm not sure what your point was. The only thing Toll and I disagreed on there was the value of his rebounding.
"Here was your thoughts on Bynum playing 70 games: If Bynum plays 70 games, I say 49-33."
Did Bynum play 70 games? You understand what "if" means, right?
Here's the thing, and it's something I learned very early on scouting. You're going to be wrong. I'm okay being wrong. So if your "proof" is that I thought Maalik Wayns preseason play earned him the chance to play in the NBA, whereas before I thought he wasn't an NBA player, okay.
Any time you wright about the NBA, you're going to be right at times and you're going to be wrong at times. I could bring up numerous predictions (draft and Sixers) I've made that have been right and numerous times I've made predictions that have been wrong. Your couple of weak examples here aren't exactly proof of anything.
You're free to like whomever you like. But if you're going to call me a clown, that's where I take issue.
I don't think Brown is here just for the development years. He will be given a chance to work with legit talent IMO if nothing extraordinary happens.
We'll see maybe i'm wrong but i have a feeling that as long as Brown maintains a solid relationship with Hinkie and the key players he will be here for a long time.
We'll see. He's going to have to get some key players to work with before any of this matters.
I think you're allowing your bitterness towards the 'rebuilding' process to cloud your understanding of what Brown said in his interview. From what I've read he talked very much like a man who was more worried about evaluating the talent on the roster than his career W/L record in the first few seasons.
As for what 'choice' he was, this was the guy whose name leaked on draft night. Who knows why it took so long, but this was the guy reportedly at the top of the list in June. No explanation for why it took so long to finalized, maybe it was money, maybe it was something else, but in the end it sounds like the GM got the guy he always wanted and maybe was patient enough to wait for him until he said yes.
I have nothing against the guy and won't unless/until he starts trying to win games this season.
I'm just saying I felt your analysis of his press conference was clouded by something as nothing else I've seen indicates he hasn't fully embraced the reset button - Let Evan Turner say 'not tanking' - his over trying can only help the team evaluate how bad he is and get closer to a top 3 pick
A coach isn't going to say "Try to lose." but this is quote I was referring to. Guess it's technically hearsay (what Turner says Brown said to him)...
Well
A. It's Turner
B. A coach's job is partly to placate players who aren't as insightful as they like to thinkg
We want to compete and get better, not sure what part of that says 'I'm not on board with rebuilding'. The job is to evaluate the talent and develop it - thus - yeah - he wants them to get better, it's part of his job to develop guys, but I'd read that more as someone trying to placate Turner's ego (which seems pretty fragile to me after the past couple seasons)
I wouldn't pay too much attention on that quote. What was Brown supposed to say to one of his players? That they will actively try to lose? Of course not. The players SHOULD give consistent effort and try to win games. The GM and to a degree the coach are the ones that can put a limit to winning via many ways.
Quite the contrary, i've never heard a coach speak less about trying to win in the following season. Regarding next season he was talking about process, pain and my favorite "science experiment". I really don't know what more can he say and not blatantly tell the media that the organization wants to be terrible next season and he's perfectly fine with it.
Not losing on purpose != focusing on player development over winning meaningless games.
If the expectation of a coach is that he's going to go out there and try to lose, I don't think you'll ever find one. If you have found a coach who is willing to concede that player development is more important than wins and losses this season, which I believe the Sixers have, then you've struck gold.
Brown talked about next year being an educated science experiment, said about how important it is to let players play through and give young players a chance, and talked about how he's looking at the development of the pieces on the team as the compass for his success rather than the result.
I really couldn't have expected much more from him, to be honest.
That's all well and good, so long as it's a long learning curve. I don't want him squeezing out wins this year or the whole thing blows up in our faces. He and the front office need to be prepared to take steps to make sure that doesn't happen.
Watch his press conference (in 3 parts) on sixers.com - even from the introduction I get the impression he knows it's a long haul rebuilding, tolerance, patience, these are key terms he's using
First shocker of the PC - Howard Eskin asks an intelligent well worded questions regarding 'how do you handle tanking' :)
This roster is so weak and raw that they will have one of the worst records in the league no matter how hard they try to win.
MCW
Turner
????
Young
Hawes
Bench:
Lavoy Allen
after that, really no one with nba experience to start the season.
Lastly, a coach has to respond to a player who says "I don't want to tank" with some version of "we are not going to tank." Anything else would be a scandal.
I'm not interested in one of the worst records in the league.
So what exactly are you interested in for next season because the sixers are probably going to be the worst team in the league (barring injuries to other mediocre teams)
I'm interested in the worst record in the league. Not one of the worst records in the league.
There are no guarantees, but it seems universal right now that the sixers have positioned themselves very well to be down right putrid next year
The only thing thing that matters to me this year is finishing with the worst record, having a guaranteed top four pick and the best shot at Wiggins. Anything else is secondary, including player development. I hope this new coach feels the same way, despite what he says.
Yep, feel the same way. Give Noel a couple extra months of strength training once his rehab is done, then play him in Delaware for a few weeks. Coddle him, and give him as little exposure as possible to this sad sack team (while also making sure he doesn't accidentally improve the team).
Coach Brown (ugh, almost feels dirty saying that) multiple times put emphasis on development, physical fitness, physical endurance, the new training facility that they're building (I didn't know about that), a focus on defense while still being able to run...Noel's health will be 'held at a premium' says Brown
He barely even talked about Noel in the press conference. He might not even play next season.
From what i understood (and Brown was surprisingly very honest during the press conference), there are only three things that matter next season:
- developing MCW
- making Thad buy into the long term approach
- pump and dump everyone else if possible (they are all irrelevant long term)
has the organization said anything about royce white at all? I get the feeling they don't even care if he shows up.
Even when they acquired him, there were plenty of talks that White is irrelevant and that Aldemir is the real prize of the deal. Guessing that is correct.
it seems to have disappeared now but White tweeted the other day to someone who asked him if he'd ever play for the Sixers, something to the effect of "you never say 100% but I'm 99.9% sure" he will...wonder if Brown and Hinkie are already starting to crack down on social media use by players...
Isn't a given that developing Noel will be a key this season as well? I don't think that will mean rushing him back or pushing for wins, but I hope Brown intends to spend a lot of time with Noel off the court and in walkthroughs, and at least get him some NBA minutes later in the season. I don't see the advantage of playing Noel in Delaware or dragging his rehab longer than it should take.
I was just saying what my impressions were from the press conference. Brown was super excited about Noel, but he sort of looked at him as a 2014 pick, not someone who will be the focus of development this year. I guess Noel will spend most of this season rehabbing and he won't play a lot if at all.
Following up on what someone said earlier, I assume JRich starts at the 3 right? MCW, Turner, JRich, Thad, Hawes....
I don't think J-Rich will be available for the start of the season if at all. He has a bad knee injury. He's out long term.
Jason Richardson is expected resume basketball activities by February. I'm guessing James Anderson, who has averaged 3.7 ppg over his career, is supposed to be our starting SF. Or maybe they can move Thad to the 3 and have a front court of Hawes and Moultrie.
I remember Anderson looking pretty good as a rookie. Wouldn't be surprised if he outplays Turner this year, at least.
Terrible hire. I'm a bit perturbed at this move mainly because Brown comes off as way too intelligent and charismatic. We need to lose people! We need Wiggins or Parker! Brown is simply too good of a coach for a tank season. We should have brought back Eddie Jordan!
Relax. Noone can win more than 20-25 wins with this team...
Listen to the press conference
ESPN is doing some summer predictions to get traffic
Their worst three teams in the NBA
Sixers - 20/62
Phoenix - 22/60
Orlando - 24/58
The Dwight Howard deal really worked out well for everybody, didn't it? I guess Denver and the Lakers made out best, each getting 1 season from a former all-star.
I think saying it will take Brown over 4 years to get over .500 is ludicrous. Don't get me wrong that shouldnt be the goal but you are vastly over-rating the league. The Sixers could be over .500 by 2014-2015 season if Noel pans out and they get Wiggins, Randle, Gordon, or Parker.
I think Brian's referring to Brown's cumulative coaching record. Even with optimistic growth in years 2-4, it's hard to see Brown reaching .500 until year 5.
If you are referring to cumulative coaching record, that is a pretty good estimate, but "cumulative" coaching record isn't what matters much at this point. If the Sixers don't have a .500 season until five years from now, then that should be more than enough evidence to consider this experiment a failure.
That would surprise me. Durant's team had two bad years after drafting him and Lebron's had one anyway. Granted they do have money for free agents next summer but I'm not sure how much of it will be spent then.
Also I think the feelings being expressed about Noel are ludicrous as well. The kid will play a lot this year. He will be back before Christmas mark my words. If you know anything about Nerlens Noel is that he loves to play the game of basketball. All reports are that his rehab is going well. His injury was way less severe then Derrick Roses. They will not be sitting him extra months to tank games. They will still be awful even if he plays and plays fairly well. Usually I love this blog but I think some of the stuff being said in this particular post is way out there.
Did you listen do the Brett Brown press conference? He was excited about him, but he certainly didn't sound like a guy who expects to see Noel soon. And i don't think that has anything to do with his work ethic, severity of the injury or his love for the game. They just won't rush him and will force him to take his time and get in the best shape possible before stepping on the floor.
Nerlen's highlights from two years ago. I like how he's able to put the ball on the floor- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZSd-cn2DBA
Those are some high percentage baskets. Does have any mid-range to speak of? Seeing him handle the ball kinda reminds me of Durant.....maybe just bc he is tall and lanky. No way is he even in Durant's league offensively.
An off-topic but pretty quality piece on McNabb:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/21/4640364/donovan-mcnabb-eagles-retrospective-stupid-people
@WojYahooNBA
Memphis has traded guard Tony Wroten to the 76ers for a future second round pick, league source tells Y! Sports.
You know what they say, "You can never have enough perimeter players who can't shoot!"
@ChrisVernonShow
The Wroten deal is - Wroten to Philly for 2014 2nd Rd pick (Top 50 protected) ... they traded him for nothing aka (flexibility)
Hah! And they always say that you can't get something for nothing.
But the Sixers got nothing for nothing.
Well they did need more guards and he is supposed to be a good ball handler anyway. The Sixers may set this century's record for lowest backcourt field goal percentage. On the other hand, their bigs could have a banner year in grabbing offensive rebounds.
I like Wroten. He has potential. And he cost literally nothing.
If they are committed to being bad, then this is exactly the type of player they should be auditioning this year: a young player with previously forecasted upside who has declined in value and won't get enough chances with a competitive team.
not a bad move at all. Wroten was a 1st rd pick in 2012. just picking up another asset.
Believe it or not, i am actually more confident in Wroten than in MCW to develop into a good player. But MCW is still an unknown quantity so i might be very wrong.
Sixers still have like $10 mill in roster space they have to use just to reach the salary cap minimum. i have no clue who else they're targeting.
they dont need to reach the salary floor til the end of the season and if they dont there arent any severe penalties
ahh didn't realize that, thanks. guess it makes sense to just pick up an expiring contract at some point over the course of the season as buke mentioned
I guess everyone wonders how that shortfall will be resolved. My own guess is that, at the moment, they aren't targeting anyone with much of a price tag. From what I understand, the determination of whether a team meets the minimum salary requirements is done at the end of the year. If that is the case, they could always meet that shortfall by taking in a larger expiring contract sometime during the season.
If we don't count Kazemi but count all of the other players who were picked up during the offseason by various means, they now have thirteen players on the roster in the month or so before camp. Two of those players (Richardson and Noel) are injured. My guess is that they pick up one more guard, but that player may just be someone who is picked from those free agents receiving preseason camp invites.
I don't think this is just about losing. Young player development is probably also a factor. If the front office really wants to see MC Williams and Wroten get extensive opportunities, getting a player with enough stature to lock-in a position ahead of one of them would be counterproductive to that goal.
There's a certain Canadian dude out in LA who might be the ideal teacher for those two no?
If they end up short of the salary floor, the difference is distributed amongst the players under contract. So it does not cost the team anything more than if they had been at the floor.
Think of it as a tankers bonus to the players who had to fight shorthanded all season.
I'd rather have them spend that money. Maybe take on the contract of Gerald Wallace, David Lee, Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash, Landry Fields, Nene, or Kendrick Perkins for 1st round picks.
Nene and an unprotected 1st round pick for Spencer Hawes. Do you think that the Wizards would make that trade? They can use that cap space to overpay for Pau Gasol and Rudy Gay.
ahh but which of those moves can they do without making the team better enough to actually win games?
I don't think Perkins or Gerald Wallace makes us any better.
Hard to say. I would not risk their chances in locking down a top 4 pick this year (meaning finishing with a bottom 2 record.) Then the following season would be a good time to make those types of moves you describe.
That way you ideally get your franchise star and then surround them with as much talent as soon as possible (both additional #1's and solid vet role players.) You don't want to draft a star and then lose them later because it took too long to add talent around them.
Bottom 2 record only guarantees you a top 5 pick.
Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.
There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?
Yeah. Worst guarantees top 4. The #2 seed has a 12% chance of getting bumped to 5th. Fortunately this draft appears to have some depth at the top.
There's a good chance they will be bad the following year too. How does the 2015 draft class look to be shaping up? Draftexpress lists a number of bigs at the top of their 2015 mock. Is their a consensus about whether it will be a strong year?
My gut says that Boston is going to win the lottery.
The guy I keep hearing about for next year's draft is Emmanuel Mudiay. He's going to be a high school senior and he already committed to Southern Methodist University. Odd.
Not odd at all. Larry Brown is the coach of SMU.
Well i've heard people refer to Jahlil Okafor as the successor of Shaq, Bynum and the host of older great true post centers. He's the prohibitve no.1 pick as of right now. I guess it will be a fairly strong draft as it should have at least 2-3 players with star potential (Okafor, Mudiay, Towns) as well as the players from this class that will decide to stay in school for another year. I'm almost certain that there will be at least one of the top prospects that will stay for his sophomore year.
Btw, all in all i think it's fair to say the Sixers are very likely to get a top 3-4 pick in next years draft, regardless of their actual position in the end.
Depending on who we get at the top of this upcoming draft of course, the player in the '15 draft class that I would love, love, love to end up with is Justin Jackson. Man, I really really like this kid's game. His IQ and levelheadedness at his current age is astounding to me, without even mentioning his physical and athleticism attributes.
Justin Jackson to the Sixers in '15! (on the wing beside Wiggins or Parker obviously)
I have a premonition we're going to get the #2 pick in the lottery, or somehow have a better record than Orlando or Boston or someone, and spend the whole lottery-to-draft period, or the whole season, arguing with you about whether we should take Parker with the second pick. So let me just stake my ground now and say that I don't even see Parker as a top 5 pick in this draft.
@SpearsNBAYahoo
Sixers have agreed in principle to hire up and coming Grizzlies assistant coach Lloyd Pierce to a similar position, source told Y! Sports.
Ehhh, i hate that Butler to Milwaukee trade. Now the Sixers are not the only tanking team in the league with cap space to absorb terrible players/contracts for picks...
Memphis waived fab melo
not a huge fan of him but wouldnt mind if the sixers claimed him
@WojYahooNBA
Philadelphia has hired Chad Iske as an assistant coach, source tells Y! Iske built great rep for player development under George Karl.
Another player development guy. Nice.
Positive news: at least the Sixers new coach didn't get a DUI this weekend!
that was my first thought when i saw that
Who was the best center the Sixers had since Wilt?
Moses, obviously.
I thought of him as more of a PF
He was listed as a C his whole career sans one early year in the ABA. Incredible rebounder, double-doubles nightly were a given.
With Houston, Moses started at forward because Billy Paultz was the starting center. On the Sixers he was strictly a center. Caldwell Jones was traded (for him), as was DD, so they didn't have a true 5 they could start. I think he was most effective at the 4 because he shot more jumpers and still was an animal in the paint. He was a better shooter than people remember.
Caldwell was better than Sam. Overall I'd say he was a better defender than Mutumbo but didn't bring the intimidation factor. Have to put Theo ahead of all three. Was Mutombo really better than Theo? In spite of his many flaws, I would rank Dawkins third. He was just a much better player than Mutombo.
Wilt
Moses
Dawkins
Theo
Mutombo
Caldwell Jones
And don't forget Johnny Kerr.
If you're throwing out Moses, it's 35-year-old Mutombo followed by Dalembert. Are you trying to get us all depressed?
What! No Manute Bol or Shawn Bradley? No mention of Christian Welp?
Agree with Mutombo behind Moses. Don't think I agree with Dalembert as #3. I'd take the young Theo in that spot. Caldwell Jones wasn't far behind Dalembert. And based on entertainment value alone, I'd take Daryl Dawkins over Dalembert. Dalembert was very sturdy as a Sixer, though. He didn't miss very many games after his first year.
Don't forget this guy... http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/01-11-2008/Mike-Gminski-Rebound.jpg
From interview:
"Q: Is Philadelphia a good basketball city?
Gminski: I think it’s a football city at its core, and when the Phillies are good they are followed, so the 76ers are probably third. The Flyers have their fervent 20,000 who come out every game, it seems like. My time there did not end well [Gminski played for the 76ers from ‘88-91]. I was a great player at my old contract, but when I signed a bigger contract, I wasn’t nearly as good, even though I was the same player, and I got run out of there. WIP is the sports talk radio, and it is just brutal. Now, when I go back, it’s like, "You’re the greatest. We loved you when you were here, G-Man." I think, "Where were you in ’90 when I was getting killed?"
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2008/01/Issue-78/Sports-Industrialists/Catching-Up-With-College-Basketball-Analyst-Mike-Gminski.aspx
haha. He did a pretty decent job of describing this fanbase without using the words "assholes" and "fairweather"
Yeah, diplomatic and pretty much spot on. I'm always baffled by how so many fans dislike a player based on their contract- as opposed to blaming the GM. I can see how having an overpaid player is bad for the team, but it is not a reason to hate a player.
You're right. I did completely forget about Gminski. Maybe because he played during one of those "in-between" Sixers eras where they were neither good enough nor bad enough to be particularly memorable. Although his best years were before coming here, he still should rank as one of the better Sixer centers post-Wilt.
Story: Sam Hinkie on 2013-14 Sixers: 'Everyone starts with a blank slate'
http://bit.ly/1cyY4nn
Looks like the Suns are releasing Beasley.
Pair him up with Turner and LOOK OUT EASTERN CONFERENCE!!!!
more like look out kitchen cabinets of eastern conference
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/SBNation_20130904_Royce_White_Allegedly_Under_Investigation_For_Domestic_Violence.html
I love Bodner's draft work, but he's under investigation, not "allegedly" under investigation. He allegedly assaulted this woman; that doesn't make the fact of the investigation itself an allegation too. Even if you're not sure whether he's under investigation or not, the right word there would be reportedly, not allegedly. TMZ didn't "allege" that White was under investigation, it reported it.
Until there's an on the record confirmation from the police, TMZ reported an alleged investigation.
Regardless, that's extremely pedantic.
So you've not spoken to Tray before then?
Report: Royce White being investigated for alleged domestic assault:
http://bit.ly/17zYysd
"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"
"Sticky Fingers" White is allegedly a Renaissance man. Chortle, chortle. That the New 76ers are having anything to do with this dude should give Sam's Club members pause, anxious moments, maybe even panic attacks. "Go Greyhound. And leave the driving to us!"
"That's two, two - two mints in one!"
Are you OK?
Much better than your in utero Samenty-Sixers. Thanks for your kind inquiry. Now go play on traffic.
correction: IN traffic (the power of the underrated preposition prevails)
http://m.helpguide.org/articles/alzheimers-dementia/alzheimers-disease
Stan's Diner menu: proxy intelligence, organic stupidity, corned beef hash, sufferin' succotash. Daily Special: possum cutlet & grits.
Hey - sorry for putting this here - but every little bit helps - my brother in law is a teacher in the philadlephia public school system and he needs books for his students and the school district doesn't have / won't give him the money for these 'consumable' books, so my sister set up this 'charitable crowd funding' thing (something i was recently talking about with friends needing to exist) to help raise the money to get his books. If any of you can help at all it would be greatly appreciated, or just pass it along to people you might know who might be willing to help. He's already 1/3 of the way to the goal
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/cq03/help-tony-teach-2013
(Brian - if you want to delete this I'll understand)
Done.
Actually, this is your best post ever. Even I'll give a few bucks.
Every little bit helps
i already know i'm gonna get it, because i'm an idiot, but all you outta town 76er fans - are you gonna get league pass this season? i'm pretending i'm thinking about not getting it. but i know i'm gonna feel like a weird sucker, paying to root against the sixers every nite. sheesh.
1. Thanks for the donation joey - very cool of you :)
2. I didn't get it last year, I don't know if I'll get it this year. If I do get it - I wouldn't be 'rooting' for them to lose - I just wouldn't care if they won or lost I'd be focused on the guys who matter (very few on the roster this year) long term for the success of the sixers. I think I might look into investing in some college games instead since they are more relevant to the sixers going forward than their actual record on the court :)
The NFL package automatically renewed for me. If I have to actively stop that from happening for the NBA, I probably won't.
If you don't tell them you don't want auto renew than the NBA package does auto renew - my cable company sends me a letter a couple weeks before telling me about it - but even then - after I tell them I don't want auto renew - they still have renewed it in the past :)
That's an interesting question. League Pass (whether TV or broadband) rolls over each season if you don't take the action to cancel it. Part of me doesn't want to waste my money, or more importantly, time watching the Sixers this season. But part of me just can't resist viewing at least part of the debacle. In the end I might just take the passive way and allow myself to be suckered.
What Market do you live in?
I get 4 sixer games (two clipper two laker games) a year no matter what - and I figure that's more than enough :)
Minnesota.
But, you're right. A few Sixers games a year lately would be more than enough and that will probably never be truer than this year. In the latter half of last season, I probably skipped more than half of the games and felt better for it.
However, if I do want to catch a Sixers win this season, undoubtedly that will require much more consistent game watching until one happens. I will take some interest in the earlier games just to see what the hell, if anything, Brown can manage to squeeze from this team.
Ah the midwest - i often miss it quite a bit - but hey - one of those sixer wins this year could come against the T'wolves.
I just think depending on the budget for spending on things like this - popping some money down on specific college games might be more 'positive' as a sixer fan as you project who they might pick (then again, there's a lot more free options on the games)
Does the NBA sell individual games yet? Maybe buy every 10th games to see how they're progressing
I'm a little concerned, honestly. I used to watch every inning of every Yankee game until last year. Life just sort of intervened, I wasn't crazy about the direction the team was headed, so I just didn't set the time aside anymore. This year, I've watched maybe 5 games, maybe. Have a feeling that if I don't watch religiously, and sort of plan for it and make sure the time is carved out, I'll wind up not watching much at all this year and that might be the end of it. It's a big commitment to watch all the games.
Life does have a way of getting in the way if you can't devote your full 'professional' time to it - I know all about that - and I don't even have kids like you do - just an extremely over bearing job and some of my own life issues causing distraction - I think I watched 5 sixers games last year - sometimes I think the benefit of my adhd is that my interests come and go and when i decide to focus on something I will - but i can leave it a lone for a while and still have the interest when I come back.
Watching all the games when they start 90 minutes before you even get home from work is a pain as well :)
Sure. How else am I going to be able to watch the Pelicans?
Oh come on - you don't really need to WATCH the pelicans you just need to check the box score to make sure they're maintaining their spot in 7th 'place' :)
Pretty sure they're making the playoffs.
I'm not sure of that at all...I'm pretty sure they won't be top 5 in the lottery - but that's about it
w/out analyzing their team, that's how things usually work out for the Sixers. They'll also probably win their last 5 or 6 meaningless games and drop to like the 6th-worst record and the coach will be gushing about the great strides they made in the second half of the season, led by the emergence of Evan Turner, who will then receive a max extension.
Oh i was talking about the hornets - not the sixers.
You're a bit (ok a lot) jaded by the nonsense of the last few years (decades), so I see what made you say that, but I'm confident that it's a 'brand new day' and that sixers recent history will in no way inform going forward - or jrue holiday would still be here
actually, i was talking about the pelicans (making the playoffs) and the sixers (winning the meaningless games to screw themselves out of wiggins).
Gotcha - maybe for the first part of the sixers season you could focus on the eagles - o wait - tht won't work either :)
I can see them making the playoffs. I see 6 teams that are clearly better than them- Thunder, Clippers, Grizzlies, Rockets, Warriors, and Spurs. The other two spots will be a 6 team race between the Mavs, Lakers, Timberwolves, Blazers, Nuggets, and Pelicans.
I'm probably going to follow the Pelicans as a fan. I'll root for them, but still have a reason to be pleased if they lose. I like watching a team on the rise who is hopefully learning how to win (although hopefully not too quickly.) I think that is more exciting then watching an established team where you expect them to perform.
Maybe in a couple of years the Sixers will be back on the rise. But for this year too many of the Sixers will be irrelevant- in that they won't be ion the team in 2 years. i want to see Noel develop, and don't expect MCW to ever amount to anything, so that leaves zero future Sixers when you look at their opening day roster. But I can enjoy watching Jrue finally get to play on a team with both shooters and an athletic big.
I'm rooting against them. I'm kind of jealous of how they were able to get rid of Ariza and Okafur's contracts. How they were able to get the #1 pick during a year in which one of the best prospects at the C position entered the draft and how they were saved from the Chris Paul trade. I want them to suffer for a year or two before they get really good.
I have to pick some team to watch this year. The draft pick part sort of complicates it, but I'm not sure what other team would hold my interest. I don't like watching the other really good teams- it makes me feel like a bandwagon fan. But I do like watching an up and coming team with players who are starting to break out.
That is bull Crap. why are the sixers not on the rise also. why not watch your home team Rise. Everybody should root for the pelican to Losr. Then Sixers can get a better pick.
And if the pelicans lose so much they get a top 5 pick the sixers don't get the pick.
Do you understand what the sixers are trying to do with their roster next season?
Yeah, I am clearly a fair weather Sixer fan. I've watched about 95% of their games over the last 20 years, but will maybe watch 50% this year. I'm sure Hinkie will understand and forgive given the product.
Good question. I haven't decided yet, but i think i'll renew it. I want to see if one of the young guys shows some promise and i'll probably find another team to root for in the meantime. I already like the Timberwolves because of Rubio and Love anyway and i might follow the Pelicans now as well...
I read some of the comments on this page. so much negativity toward your team. This team is tryin to rebuild. how the hell do many expect this to happen. which superstar will come to Philly. maybe Evan turner will be more mature nd comfortable this year. maybe he will live up to his own High expectation. Go sixers
There used to be a lot of high expectations, especially in the upper level of the Spectrum.
Evan Turner hasn't yet earned quotation marks. Could this be the year? His way is now paved.
Thad is a positive. The new coach seems like he means it. Plenty of seats from which to choose on game nights. You're right. It's not all bad. Roman Gabriel and the Fire High Gang wasn't built in a day!
I will watch every game this Year. i work for comcast in Colorado. i am happy that i watch my team. I think the fans should get behind this young team. imagine if they get two more players in next draft. then the bandwagon will be filled.
Relevant to the 76ers I guess...
I was just reading a True Hoop article in which they mention "The Oklahoma City Model" as a proper and recognized strategy. That cracks me up. It's called tanking. It has always been called tanking. Teams in all professional sports that have a draft tank. Granted, the Thunder have had tremendous success by tanking and have built a perennial contender, but to give their GM credit for inventing that strategy is beyond ridiculous. You could also call it "The Charlotte Model", no?
more than anything OKC got lucky in getting the #2 instead of #1 pick that particular year. which is even more insane considering how bad most #2 picks have been recently. just check this list out:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/history-of-the-nba-draft-pick-number-2
I'd absolutely love it if they signed Beasley and traded for D. Williams. Possibly picked up Thabeet as well. Get as many bust #2 picks as possible in preparation for getting the #2 pick in the upcoming draft.
lol. i actually think D. Williams is salvageable in the right situation. problem is he has no true position, similar to another #2 bust we all know.
I think there are two types of tanking. One is intentionally throwing games by holding out your best players in order to lose. This happens on occasion when seeding or specific lottery positioning is at stake. Holding out an injured player through a "lost season" like what the Spurs did with DRobinson prior to getting Duncan also qualifies. IMO this is both smart and acceptable, as teams need to do what is in their best interest- but not everyone would agree.
The Sixers represent something different- in that they are doing a full rebuild. I'm not sure why this is considered tanking. They have stripped away everything that is irrelevant to their future and the resultant team will lose a lot on merit. The NBA rightly rewards this with a higher pick to help the process along. I don't see any requirement (moral or otherwise) that a team that is rebuilding has to add players that will maintain some short term respectability. This would be like telling someone who is renovating their home that they have to put in a temporary kitchen after tearing out the old one. There is noth wrong with gutting a home before putting in the upgrades.
Honestly
It's considered tanking because the average sports fan doesn't want to bother with nuance. You traded away your best player, you're not signing 'names' who people think can play (even if they're only replacement level) you must be trying to lose on purpose.
There is nuance between tanking and rebuilding that most don't want to see. Pelton at ESPN tries very hard during his (very long) chats to try and explain the difference, but many don't want to hear it
I mean, we are trying to lose a lot of games this year on purpose, although we had other reasons to do what we've done.
True. But like Joeykey said, the term "OKC Model" is kind of annoying. They're not doing anything new or revolutionary.
Indiana is the team that I'm really impressed with. No one on their roster is a top 5 pick and they didn't go out and sign some major free agent. They've built a great team by making good draft picks and developing their players.
Roy Hibbert was a shitty college player who entered the league overweight and with conditioning issues. Paul George was the 10th pick despite coming from Fresno State, Lance Stephenson was a 2nd round pick, George Hill was acquired in a trade, and David West was signed despite having injury issues. Even Danny Granger who hasn't been playing was the #17 pick.
What's also impressive is that the guys they drafted didn't have immediate success in the NBA. I think Indiana did a really good job with their training staff.
I guess the only mistake Indiana made was drafting Tyler Hansbrough over Jrue Holiday.
yep. Hibbert has surprised me the most, because i thought he was an absolute stiff at Georgetown. it's remarkable what their staff has done with him. and Paul George will probably be a top 10 player in the league this season. they're legit contenders in my mind.
This is the article you were referencing? http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/62298/whats-up-with-the-milwaukee-bucks
I don't see how the Pacers can be a blueprint.
This anti-tanking article is cited: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40055/does-tanking-even-work
I don't buy the assertions in this at all. Basically there is the premise that bad teams hardly every become great. And that is true- becasue only a few generational superstars win almost all of the titles. But IMO that just reinforces how hard it is to win in the NBA and that you have to put yourself in a position to get lucky.
So the choice for the Sxiers since the end of the Iverson era has been either to have zero chance at a title but a decent chance at building towards 50 wins or do what they are doing now. And now they historically have only a 12% chance of getting really good in the next decade (ouch)- which means Hinkie is taking a big gamble with his own career- bit IMO still doing the right thing for the Sixers.
Just saw the Sixers might be interested in Boobie Gibson and some 35-year-old rookie.
They need to find their Willie Burton.
Remember when the Sixers signed Lee Nailon and he ended up being arrested later that year for beating up his wife? The Sixers were desperate to get rid of him so they traded him to Cleveland along with a 2nd round pick in exchange for a protected 2nd round pick that they never got. Cleveland used that 2nd round pick to draft Boobie Gibson. If the sign him I guess it will be like they lost nothing in that trade.
Last year had a 10 game plan costing $138 per ticket. The recent invoice received for this year indicates $188 per ticket. A 36% increase to watch a diminished product. Not buying it and have to question the business model.
That's hilarious. You should send a response asking them why they would expect you to pay more considering the moves they made this summer. See if you get a response.
Maybe they should be required to distribute at least some of the money they are beneath the salary floor to ticket holders. That would almost make too much sense.
for the same seats? that's almost unheard of even for a team who just won a title.
To be fair- The games they raised the Prices for are against, the Heat(2), Knicks(2), Nets(2) OKC(1), LAL(1), LAC(1), and Pelicans(Yeah, why they are thrown into the big game plan, I have no idea)
So your not really paying more to see the Sixers, your paying more to see the top opponents in the league. Since new ownership has taken over, they have been gradually raising the price to see top opponents and lowering the price/offering specials to see the teams no one wants to see, which makes sense.
but increasing prices by 50% (same thing happened to me) to sell an inferior product does not exactly seem like the best way to fill the building and/or grow the STH base...at least the Celtics have been demoted out of big game
I guess their philosophy is that no one is going to attend a Sixers game unless they want to watch the opposing team. They might as well make as much money as they can from their major income source.
The problem is even though you are paying to watch the other team play they may sit their stars or limit their playing time this season versus the Sixers. Whats the point of watching mismatches against the better teams in the league. Th entertainment value still comes from having competitive games.
People are going to come in to see Lebron, Wade, Melo, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, Deron and KG play. It's not always about competitive basketball. How often do you get to watch Lebron play in-person?
I'm at the UK alumni game. Wall and Davis are playing; Cousins and Noel came to "coach.". Noel is wearing a vest over a throwback Phillies t-shirt. He's skinny, ambulatory, and pretty boyish. He dribbles a basketball on the bench and was the only alum who couldn't stop fidgeting during the national anthem. He's also really bored by the game. Cousins, unsurprisingly, is really into it, screaming instructions at his team's players cross-court and hanging his head when his team misses shots or Josh Harrelson makes one. He also throws t-shirts into the stands during timeouts. As for the game, Wall is outplaying Brandon Knight, and Kidd-Gilchrist looks like a completely worthless offensive player even in a game played at a quarter of the effort of an all-star game. Calipari just made a speech about donating the million in ticket sales they raised in the game and still seems like a sleazy creep. I'm not sure that Noel has said a word to anyone all game, although maybe that's because all his teammates are still on the team or didn't come (Archie Goodwin). Cousins is very upset that his team is losing and is heatedly discussing this with Eric Bledsoe. Then he forcibly lifted Patrick Patterson out of his chair to get him in the game, although I don't think Patterson is on Cousins's team. Now they're taking pictures at center court of giant charitable check presentations. Noel is so bored he tried to duck out after they shot the first picture. Now he's literally pacing around the group and hovering three feet behind all the other players. He doesn't exactly come across as mature.
well he's like 19 right?
also not sure an offseason alumni scrimmage where he's not even playing is the best place to measure his maturity
That's true, but he just seemed so shy and introverted. It was strange to see. Sometimes Wall or Cousins would try to politely engage him in a conversation, and he would talk for a minute and then go back to staring into space.
I'd prefer if all Sixers prospects ignored Cousins and Wall whenever possible.
Lets put it this way: I would very much prefer shy (Noel) over crazy (Cousins). I don't think there are any issues character wise with Noel.
Oh certainly. It was amusing to see Cousins pacing the sidelines as a coach; it was kind of like this bizarro world where his personality flaws were strengths. Sort of like how Mark Jackson went from being the world's most annoying announcer to a really great motivational coach without really changing anything about his personality.
Chad Ford has a very early mock draft for the next draft including projections of who will be picking where
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9652326/nba-andrew-wiggins-tops-2014-mock-draft-10
He has New Orleans picking 11th which I would be thrilled with. I have a feeling that a lot of these guys like Jabari Parker, Chris Walker, and Dante Exum might not enter the draft next year.
@ZachLowe_NBA
Bookkeeping: League sources say Sixers have hired Brandon Williams from league office for key position under GM Sam Hinkie.
Rod Thorn 2.0!
they're also adding Greg Foster to the coaching staff:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/SBNation_20130910_Report__76ers_To_Add_Greg_Foster_To_Coaching_Staff.html
I wouldn't trust the jackass that wrote that.
from 'passionate intense proud' to 'we refuse no refuse'
wouldn't pay $188 for a 10 gm plan; time value, gas & parking costs have to be factored along with rubbish on court (thad excluded)
big gm plan: come see our chumps get chumped by the prestigious; slobber over other cities' fortunes; learn to appreciate 3Q starts home
the gilded age is surfacing
Call me crazy, but I think the central is going to be a 3-team race and Detroit has a chance to win the division. A pretty good chance, actually. You aren't going to be able to score on them.
I don't think there is any way Detroit finishes ahead of Chicago and Indiana.
Depends mostly on how Drummond's production works in a full-time role as the starting 5. But with Smith at the three, Jennings and the point and Drummond at the 5, really doesn't matter who's at the 2 and 4, they can defend anyone. Don't think their offense will be very good, and I'm not sold on Mo as a head coach after his time in Philly, but they've got some really good defensive pieces and they've got size. Better size than IND IMO. No idea what to expect from Chicago, other than Deng playing 45 minutes/game as Thibs tries to wring every last molecule of productivity out of him in his walk year.
I think Drummond is very good talent, but is far from leading a team to the top of the conference. He is not even ready to be a full time starter IMO. First he needs to learn how to shoot FTs or he won't even be on the floor for more than 25 minutes. Right now he is not that different from say DeAndre Jordan. He needs time. The sky is the limit though.
Anyone know date that training camp starts?
A quick web search I found an announcement that the Bulls training camp starts September 27th
I couldn't find a note on when the sixers pre-season starts - but I did find this
The Sixers will appear in seven exhibition contests this fall, beginning on Sunday, October 6 (12PM EST) with a game against ACB League club Bilbao Basket in Bilbao, Spain.
I'd say training camp probably starts the week of the 23rd?
Don't know. Communication blackout remains. Could be marketing dept's obverse tactic to tease fan with coin into blind ticket purchase or maybe Dr. Fish, team consultant, prescribed prolonged silence for a full Collins cleanse. Dr. No was more transparent than New Sixers.
As far as i know, training camps for all teams ALWAYS start on the 1st of October. It's like a rule imposed by the league or something...
I was just checking out Facebook for some unknown reason, and I noticed the Sixers official FB page is promoting the big game plan, with a picture of Jrue in a Pelicans uniform. Kind of ironic. "Come see our best player...remember, the guy we traded away!"
I for one am pretty excited for 20 dollar courtside seats this year. Maybe 15 dollars pre-Noel.
Courtside is always awesome, but courtside in Philly has basically none of the bells and whistles they have pretty much everywhere else. You get access to a cash bar and overpriced waitress service. Everywhere else you get access to free food and non-alcoholic drinks, VIP entrance, etc. They just do everything wrong in Philly.
Well last year I got to hear Evan Turner discuss with his friend (sitting next to me)where they were going to booze that night, so there's always that. Yeah it is ridiculous though, the allure of courtside is purely in how easy it is to see and hear everything on the court. The bells and whistles are next to nothing besides the more comfortable seats.
i think it depends what kind of courtside seats you have. for my birthday this year my girl hooked it up and they included free food and drinks at the Lexus Club. neither of us knew so we had to ask one of the dudes down there. he marked our tix, gave us a wristband, and we ordered whatever we wanted. it might be better in other arenas but for us it was pretty much the most amazing night ever.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20130913_76ers_to_sign_Darius_Morris.html
This is good news for me. If my team is going to lose, I'd at least like to watch local guys I like get a chance.
Going to sign up for League Pass broadband. I'll take the 5 team option, but still undecided on my 5 teams. ack in the late 80's and early 90's I used to follow the Suns (KJ/Chambers/EJ/Hornecek/Thunder Dan) and Seattle (Kemp/Payton/Schemph/XMan/Peirce/EJ/Chambers/Ellis
These next few years I want to become more a broader fan of the game, so hope to find some teams on the rise. I really dislike the Miami/Boston/LAC type teams that were constructed from established stars. And for some reason don't really enjoy OKC.
So the Sixers, Pelicans and 3 other teams (+ Bulls who are on local TV.) What formerly bad team will win 45-50 games this year?
how much cheaper is the 5 team option? I can't seam to find on the league pass page.
The 5 team option is on the league pass broadband page. I think it is forty dollars less. Not a big deal, but I generally only watch the success out the national games, so I might as well take the savings. Then again maybe I'll just splurge for the cable package to make it more reliable on the big screen.
I used to have the cable option but after two seasons it seemed wasteful to me because I found I really didn't have the interest in watching that many teams. In addition, they only have one HD channel (at least they did) and, if I only have a modest interest in watching the teams, I'd rather just watch the games offered on the national HD channels. I also like the ability to watch archived games on the broadband package.
For the five teams (they gave seven a couple of years ago), I pick the Sixers and usually ones that are rarely shown on the national channels.
Warriors should be fun to watch. Timberwolves are a good league pass team assuming Rubio/Love stays healthy. I assume you'd want an east coast team for the last one just to balance things out a little but I can't think of an east coast team that's really worth watching. Maybe New York for the lol-factor. Otherwise, Houston's probably a good team to watch too.
Good suggestions. I have to refresh my memory of who has been traded to get a better sense of these teams.
Without blake griffin the clippers wouldn't be much - they have one 'established' star...not sure I'd dismiss them because of that
The Warriors are a trendy team I expect to take a big step back this year (too many injury prone players need to stay healthy)
Pacers maybe? They fit your criteria? Orlando is one of them young up and coming teams people want to talk about.
The Wolves being healthy would be nice
I think the Rockets could be a nice comedy this year, I don't expect Dwight being any happier in Houston where Harden is the center than he did in LA with Kobe.
Cleveland? Irving is supposedly fun to watch
What exactly type of team do you want to watch? Wouldn't you like to watch at least one contending team?
I'll still mostly watch the Sixers and maybe Pelicans. I figure the contents will be in national TV enough to get my fill.
I do like watching good teams, but teens that are full of older vets who made their names on previous teams are less interesting for some reason. That is what I meant by Miami, LAC and formerly Boston. In the beginning it is interesting to see how these teams mesh, but after that I lose interest because I already sort of know what to expect from the players.
Contents should read contenders
If you can stand the color purple, a Northwestern season ticket will supply the opportunities to see Big 10 (or 11 or 12) powers and to pick Doug's brain for Sixers saga nuggets when he appears in the corridor.
I would definitely go if I lived in that side of town. I'm more in Kane County Cougar country.
Can understand your reluctance. There's not much opportunity for cruise control between St. Charles & north shore. It be a little busy.
Some suggestions:
1. Timberwolves - Rubio in an Adelman system. Always fun to watch. And they also check the "criminally underrated" point.
2. Pelicans - Holiday + Davis. A definite must watch.
2. Warriors - Iguodala + Curry. Will probably be exciting.
3. Grizzlies - A chance to watch completely different type of basketball. And they'll be good. Really good.
4. Rockets - Who knows what Morey has up his sleeves. This is a high risk/reward pick :)
5. Hawks - Exciting changes similar to the ones in Philly are going on in Atlanta. They could be both progressive and good. Also a chance to finally see Mike Budenholzer coach.
formerly bad team with a chance to win 45-50 games =
Detroit Pistons
even if they suck they should be really fun to watch
Yeah, I'd definitely pick Detroit.
Nobody picks Cleveland so they can watch Bynum play? Oh, wait. . .
I'm tempted to pick Cleveland, but I don't want to hear about Bynum. That team really has an interesting frontcourt *when healthy. Bynm, Varajao, Thompson, Bennett and Zeller.
I reviewed the new depth charts at http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nba.aspx
I can see why the sixers are tanking so hard- as there are some legitimately bad teams out there that will be a challenge to separate from. the Sixers lack talent, but they likely won't be nearly as dysfunctional as some teams, so i guess we will have to see how it plays out.
So I'll go with Sixers, Pelicans, Pistons, Warriors and maybe the Wolves. That must be the strangest/worst 5 teams ever selected on League Pass. Maybe I'll go with 1 good team for my sanity.
Don't worry both the Warriors and the Wolves have a pretty good chance of winning 50+ games.
New Orleans Pelicans: nickname ranks with ones of ABA...Anaheim Amigos, Oakland Oaks, Memphis Tams, Baltimore Claws, Minnesota Muskies, San Diego Conquistadors/Sails, Pittsburgh Condors.
Delightfully whimsical name but logo has "militarized" the enchantingly goofy water bird. Jackie Moon disapproves of graphic.
The NBA begins and ends with the Boston Celtics. Can't dial them out!
FYI, Sixers training camp starts in 10 days.
Which will more resemble a summer basketball camp. I don't remember even the mid 90's teams being as low profile as this squad. Although I guess Spoon, Dumas and Barros were not much better.
Bynum drama already starting in CLE
"Drama" implies movement or action. What has he done?
John Kuester, former Pistons coach, rumored as the new top assistant under Brett Brown.
didn't he already name 3?
Well i don't think there's a limit to the coaching staff. You can have as many assistant coaches as you want to. Most teams have at least 4 i think. Anyway Kuester is rumored to be the top guy under Brown. Other signed assistants include: Lloyd Pierce, Chad Iske, and Greg Foster with Billy Lange as a possibility as well.
they just named another one from the Villanova staff too though, Billy Lange. he was the head coach of Navy for 7 years before working as Jay Wright's associate head coach the past 2 seasons.
oops didn't see you mentioned Lange too
nice write-up on Noel in today's Inquirer. he looks like he's added a good amount of muscle since i last saw him in a uniform:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20130922_Sixers__Noel_Nerlens_on_road_to_recovery.html
Paul George is set to sign a contract worth $90 million over 5 years. The one good thing about drafting Turner over George is that we didn't have to overpay Paul George.
i don't think he's going to be overpaid. he might be a top 10 player in the league within the next season or 2.
Summer residents of the Sixers fallout shelter, quaintly called Hinkie's Hut of Freeze-dried Macaroni & Cheese, will soon be emerging after taking potassium iodide pills to counter exposure to an expectant media and 182 die-hard, torchbearing Sixer fans. It remains to be seen whether protean genius or even prosaic effectiveness can exist in such conditions. Stay tuned to your emergency broadcast signal.
max extension for cousins soon!
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9713072/sacramento-kings-demarcus-cousins-close-extension-sources-say
That story is really hedged, but if it happens, I won't defend it. I would say that MAYBE Cousins would be worth a max if he played all the time the way he did in his best 20 games or so last season. But even then probably not, because of the defense.
I doubt if anyone on this board saw Cousins play 10 games last
season. An unflattering reputation precedes him but who knows what he's worth relative to rest of league knuckleheads. Double-double big men are fairly rare commodities. Kings' ransom has reason.
I know I saw more than 10. Probably more than 20. Watching that train wreck was my game of choice on the west coast when nothing else was going on. Pretty sure Tray watched a bunch, too.
Much like Wall, he's capable of excellent play. Also like Wall, he's capable of horribly destructive play, and we've seen much more of the latter than the former through their careers, so far. Think a max extension for either is a terrible, terrible idea. Of the three, George is the only one I'd even consider for a max extension, and I'm not sure I'd be too happy about handing out that contract, either. Tying up that much money in Hibbert and George...don't think that gets you anywhere near a title.
game 7 of the Eastern Conf Finals doesn't count?
And who knows what might have happened with a healthy Granger.
PG: In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter. He's getting overpaid by 2 or 3 million a year and that's not going to be the difference between them landing another star player. The only thing it might do is affect their ability to re-sign Lance Stephenson. In a year or two when Ray Allen retires, Wade becomes a shell of his former self, and Lebron has to carry a team of scrubs, the Pacers might be the best team in the East.
Max extension for most players is a bad idea. An 80 or 90 million windfall tends to disincentivize, distract a young man to some extent. What's Jrue makin'? 50 or 55? That's too much bread for what he brings to the table...but it's in line with other astronomical paydays of the not-yet-there group. Who in their right mind would turn it away? League office, owners, tv execs, agents, players union are to blame for the financial nonsense - - especially the owners (who co-sign the bottom line of dream contracts).
Players are pay-to-play entities instead of produce-for-reward functionaries anymore. Sixers new xtra-long pipecleaner, Noel, who lugs questionable wheels, gets a 3-plus million rookie contract without blocking 1 shot, grabbing 1 rebound or carrying an offensive game. More power to him. Hope he lives up to it.
Can you imagine what prime time Wilt would collect today? Or rambunctious William Russell? Or the ripped and ropey Nate Thurmond? Or the marvelous Big E? Or captain Willis Reed? There'd be casinos named after them.
I can tell you exactly how much all those guys would make today...the same amount as Joe Johnson, give or take.
Joe Johnson. That's funny. Which version? The Celt? The Sun? The Hawk? Or the Net?
Late Hawks/early Nets version. He's still got 2 years left on his deal, right?
120 for THAT. I think he's Lou Hudson's grandson. Or Reggie Theus's nephew.
No wonder there was an opening for Ferry.
For those who haven't heard, I have left LibertyBallers and will be writing at my own blog. Feel free to check it out.
http://www.broadstreethoops.com/
Is that going to be all Sixers or ate you going to mix in some college scouting/commentary?
This season? It might all be college / scouting.
It will probably have more college than I did at LB. Not full-on scouting reports, but thoughts as I'm watching games throughout the season. It will still be sixers focused, thoguh.
Congratulations - glad to see you at a place more suited to your type of writing and in depth analysis.
Thanks. Pretty excited about it.
That's great Derek! Will be checking that out "on the reg", as the kids say. Good luck man!
Oh, wow, didn't know that. I'll bookmark it immediately. Good Luck!
so who wins a playoff game next, Sixers Phillies or Eagles?
^ this must be why Brian calls it depressedfan
I think it's very clearly the Eagles. quickest to rebuild, and much easier to make the playoffs than in baseball. They're a couple of defensive backs away from being there, IMO.
Derek, I knoe your opinion on Thad learning to be a s.f. is that he would have trouble in a lot of ways adjusting, after reading it on Liberty Ballers.
My question is, is there a comparison to be made between the Kw. Leonard situation coming out of college and Thad, as he is viewed now.
I thought Leonard played more of a p.f. his last year in college and was impressed how he adjusted so quickly to the s.f. role in S.Antonio.
Is it more of a defensive issue than offensively? And could Brett Brown work a miracle with him?
It's a couple of things.
First, I think Thad's quickness advantage against power forwards is one of this greatest strengths offensively, and he largely loses that moving to sf.
Second, I place a great deal of value in a big man who can blow up the pick and roll. Thad's excellent at that. He also struggles a bit changing direction on the perimeter when defending isolation scorers. So you take away his greatest strength defensively and throw in a weakness, and I think it drastically changes his defensive impact.
Now, if Thad can get back to having a decent corner 3 and a set shot, I think he can still find a way to contribute offensively, but I wouldn't want to move him back to sf mainly for defensive reasons.
Very happy to see Derek leave LB (and the college age kids working there). I now have very little reason to go to the LB site, if any.
There's some people there I really like. Rich, Jake (who is the youngest, but good, and now credentialed with the Flyers), Justin, Brandon (who is credentialed with the eagles now). I also find Dave funny, and he's in his late 20's. Sean's good. There's some good writers there.
I'm still doing a podcast with Rich, fwiw. Certainly respect and like a lot of people on the site.
Thanks for the reply. Is it the way the league is going that allows a possible Noel and Thad combo to shine defensively together, in spite of both being on the light side weightwise?
And has the pick n role become more of a linchpin recently leaguewide that quickness is more vital than strength down low?
And lastly, is there any way that a Noel and Hawes frontcourt could compliment each other well enough to succeed for 20 minutes a night?
Well, it's not that I don't think them being so slightly isn't a concern. But I do think quickness is incredibly important, and the league has moved to using the pick and roll very much, whereas the number of post scorers (while climbing a bit in recent years) is still relatively sparce.
I think Noel can guard 4's (RE: perimeter oriented big), but I think pulling him away from the basket negates his biggest strength, and you don't want Hawes trying to defend stretch 4's for very long periods of time.
, and you don't want Hawes trying to defend stretch 4's for very long periods of time.
Aside from corpses, and possibly midgets, is there anyone you would WANT Hawes trying to defend for long periods of time?
Well I'm going to put the Phillies third in that list due to a GM who has his head up his arse and has handed out multiple bad extensions, and drained the minor league system that was the strength that got them to where they were (similar to the Yankees, but the Phillies don't have Yankees money) and the fact that the TV deal isn't going to be as huge as they might expect, Comcast area monopoly being what it is.
The Eagles and Sixers are both 'bad' right now but in better places in my opinion. Making smart hires and accepting the rebuilding process. I'll pick the Eagle mostly due to the fact that, well, they are in possibly the worst division in football right now, with multiple bad owners (in Washington and Dallas) and a franchise in New Jersey headed down the toilet but unwilling to accept how truly bad they are.
Not sure how it worked out - but I'll see the eagles first 4 games this season and I don't have DirecTV so it's nice to watch, I'm thankful that this draft might be pretty deep in QBs
Who cares? No one's replacing Brian.
He is.
I also put a good word in with the Sixers PR to try to get DepressedFan blog favorite Rich Hofmann credentialed in my place for Liberty Ballers and will see him at a luncheon with Sam Hinkie tomorrow.
"Depressed Fan blog favorite"? From thin air. When did communal voting take place?
Remember the Xs and Os posts from Rich on Depressed Fan? Everybody liked them.
Rich is certainly my favorite blogger out there... One of the few alongside Derek and Brian that truly understands the game.
I mainly worded it the way I did because he has wirtten for DepressedFan. Obviously, opinions will vary.
And yeah, Rich is awesome. Hence why I recruited him to do the podcast with me when I found out Brian wouldn't be able to.
He's one of my favorites. Dollar Bill doesn't like anyone under 60.
Yet he spends copious amounts of time on blogs written mostly by people in their early 20's?
I mean, Brian and I are practically the elder statesmen of the blogging game.
wait this isn't the same Rich Hofmann who writes for the DN right?
He's the son of DN Rich Hofmann.
Wait, so Depressed Fan commenter "Rich" is the son of Rich Hoffman, and is also called Rich Hoffman? This is why we Jewish folks don't name our children after ourselves.
With a name like Rich Hoffman, I wold think tribe membership is a possibility- not that it matters.
It's possible, but Jewish tradition forbids naming your child after a living relative (or yourself), on the charmingly antiquated theory that the Angel of Death might get confused when he comes to take the living relative and take your child instead. Of course, that's not why we don't do it today; at this point it's just one of those things that traditionally isn't done.
ah ok
"Objection, Your Honor, on the basis that baldheaded counsel is badgering, inflammatory and assuming facts not in evidence."
First Bodner, now you - speaking for "everybody." Accuracy doesn't often take that road.
I see your opinion but certainly don't agree. The difference between you and that trio you mentioned is merely 2, no matter how they posture, with whom they hobnob or where they sit at the Wachovia Center.
The game is not difficult to understand. Fine pointing is often excessive - and obnoxious. See litany of fired coaches turned broadcasters.
Chess isn't difficult to understand
It is difficult to master
The same applies to almost any endeavor (Object Oriented Programming isn't difficult to understand, it's difficult to master), at this point you're just being a crotchety old man cause it's your schtick, but like most things, you jumped the shark (or as I like to say, went to space) long ago.
My mother is a bitter paranoid narcissist in her mid 70s - these days when you post, you remind me of her.
You've mastered the expression of your disfavor in your regrettable style. Now go on to other pursuits, bub.
"Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'...into the FEW-CHUUUH!!"
I'm glad you can quote classic rock songs, it's awesome, but of course, as usual, not relevant to the point. You'll ignore the point if you can't make some obscure historical nonsensical reference to try and counter it.
Seriously, you make Yogi Berra look erudite
You make Santa Barbara cloudy. Go fish off the pier. "You can observe a lot by watching."
Observation and understanding are not the same thing, I realize that it's hard to let go of the old ways...but that's ok, pretty soon the entire memory will be gone, and the kids you've alienated will come back and put you in a nice home
I never "spoke for everybody". Get over yourself.
You surely did. But I'm not arguing with a square of fudge.
And...now I remember why I abandoned DF. Thanks for the reminder.
Come back, Lassie, come back!
Did Jake get his permission slip signed?
So the Knicks announce they have a new (old) GM and ESPN lays out his history with the knicks, and this is evidence why the Knicks will always be the knicks
Mills previously worked with the Knicks for 10 years as president of MSG Sports (Dolan oversees MSG as its executive chairman) and hired Isiah Thomas, who presided over the team during one of its least successful stretches, with the Knicks missing the playoffs in six of their seven seasons on Thomas' watch.
The tumultuous period of Mills' reign included a sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Anucha Browne Sanders. The Knicks' former senior vice president of marketing and business operations successfully sued MSG, as a jury in October 2007 ordered the Knicks to pay her $11.6 million after finding she endured crude insults and unwanted advances from then-coach Thomas.
Mills was demoted by the Knicks in the summer of 2008. Thomas was fired in 2008 as well but remains a confidant of Dolan.
Much like I can always count on the incompetence and ego of Jerry Jones to make sure the Dallas Cowboys never truly succeed, I can be confident that Jim Dolan who somehow made a lot of money in the cable industry (probably shady like) lacks the insight to realize he is the biggest barrier to Knick success
Interesting...
http://hoop76.com/sixers-over-salary-cap/
Apparently, the Sixers according to the CBA are over the cap. Not sure if there are potentially interesting implications from this though...
Not really.
The only real reason the system is in place like it is is to prevent teams from using their cap space then going out and using their their exceptions. It's to prevent a loophole in the CBA. They can renounce those exceptions at any time and use their full cap space in a trade or signing.
Our Tom Moore reports that Brown called Turner "a generic player" in a press conference. Love this guy already.
http://m.phillyburbs.com/00redesign/sports/sixers/brown-sixers-conditioning-is-key/article_7e51acaf-3cf2-5c0a-9db8-4179f901dd9d.html?mode=jqm
Moultrie out a couple months with an ankle injury he needed surgery for
Bad, but inconsequential news. Moultrie probably would've helped lose a few games, but someone else will pick up his slack.
ESPN reporting that Brians favorite player from the Evan Turner draft received a max money extension from the Sacramento Kings, but not for max years (4 instead of 5) with no options at all.
I wonder if their new owner partner will be able to influence him at all, he had a great career of never improving or maturing, just existing on talent...of course he had a lot more than cousins
funny. I guess this signing makes more sense than $305M for Cano, though.
Cano ain't going to get 10 years, he ain't going to get 30.5 AAV - that's an insane number - the outcome of the A-Rod, Pujols, and even Hamiltons contract should put some sanity into the market.
Only way to even get close to that is to have a market outside of the Yankees for him - and so many teams with the big money have either A. No room for him or B. been burned by big deals before...I'm not sure
Maybe there's a chance that STeinbrenner west ponies it up but after the disasters of this season that he forced his GM to I'm hoping he learns some fiscal sense.
8/$200M is probably about where he winds up. If it's in that neighborhood, he probably stays in NY. If it's higher than that, it means someone else made a silly offer to him.
The Yanks will probably have money to spend next year, though. A-Rod will be off the books for one year, at least.
A-Rod ain't gonna be off the books for the year - the penalty was excessive in terms of what everyone else has gotten in the past - Selig let his emotion interfere with his common sense - Ryan Braun only got 100 games and hell he interfered with a test in the past. A-Rod is going to win his appeal a bit and play a part in the 2013/14 season...hell if was smart - he would have sat out the rest of this season even while appealling and use that in his appeal to point out he sat out X amount of games.
The Yankees are going to have to go over pay a closer too
(And $25/yr AAV is still too much for any one baseball player unless he's far and away the best in the game - and I feel Cano might be slightly over rated due to 'yankee mystique')
eh. hard to argue his numbers. robertson will be the closer next year, they'll have to overpay an 8th inning guy. not that it matters, they won't be relevant for years.
25/AAV to me is rarefied air for the best of the best in the game...I'm not saying Cano isn't very very good, I'm not sure he's one of the best in the game, and I'd argue that 25/AAV is too much for even the best in the game (I mean starting pitchers only pitch in about 20% of the games, they're only involved in whether the team wins or loses 20% of the games but for some reason that's not taken into account)
Ps - anyone notice the cheap 'geek driven' A's are going to have another playoff run again working off what seems to be an untapped resource (the power of the platoon)
Peyton Manning can REALLY survey the court and thread the needle. And Wes Welker is quick on cuts to daylight, has a nose for the ball and a pair of Fred Biletnikoff/Lester Hayes hands. Both Broncos could be ready to help Sixers backcourt by March, just in time for a run at the 8th seed.
Simmons and Jalen Rose offer a completely useless, gimmicky graphic-laden Sixers preview video that somehow drags on for 15 minutes.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9752786/bill-jalen-nba-preview-grantland-channel
I actually enjoyed that. Given the material they had to work with (a Sixers preview), they needed any gimmicks they could find.
I just don't see what value either one of those guys adds, either in terms of entertainment or actual content. Zach Lowe asks what we'll get for Thad and Turner, and Jalen's like, "they're trading Thad and Turner?? Turner's a good young player! He may not be #2 pick good, but he's worth his #2 pick rookie contract salary!" Then Simmons retreats into the whole lazy sportswriter cliche about how Turner's such an enigma, he doesn't know what to make of him, Turner's been forced to play off the ball, maybe this will be the year we'll find out who Turner really is (!) - when of course Turner is as proven a bust as anyone in basketball. It might make more sense to hold out a little hope for Michael Beasley, that's how proven a flop Turner is. Other than that I guess they didn't say anything too stupid, but they didn't really say anything else.
i mean they're talking about the worst team in the league. it's obviously not going to be as analytical as teams that actually matter this season.
you also didn't mention the Turner shot chart, which was pretty useful in revealing how bad he is around the basket
If you took away the gimmicks from anything Simmons wrote you'd be left with pronouns and punctuations.
Sure he's hired some good intelligent folk who do better when they don't have 'espn.com' type article limits - but simmons himself should take a more 'supervisory' role in the fact that he should 'supervise' what other people write and just collect his royalties...and he should have been booted off the NBA faster than Lane Kffin bailed on the volunteers once the USC job opened up
i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show. pretty sure a lot of people still enjoy his podcasts and occasional column. it's entertainment. it's ok to enjoy it for what it is (I enjoy reading Zach Lowe too for different reasons, and i know i'm getting a totally different column from him than i would be getting from Simmons). you speak in absolutes like there is no possible way someone else could have another opinion.
"i prefer Simmons on ABC/ESPN to pretty much anyone else that would ever be on that show."
Anyone else who ever is on the show, or anyone else who could conceivably be on the show? Yeah, he's a little better than Magic. But I would take anyone in the TNT cast over him (maybe not Shaq), plus Webber, plus probably dozens of retired players. Nothing Simmons says or writes is funny to me; everything he says is some obvious rant about a GM's bad choices or how lousy some player is, a crazy trade idea, or an 80s movie/70s classic rock-analogizing rant about whether a player is a true "alpha dog" and/or which player on a team is the "alpha dog," how can you only have one "alpha dog" on a team, etc. This is exactly the same stuff you get from someone like Skip Bayless, only delivered in a less angry way and with way more extraneous fluff that assumes the reader has the same crappy taste as him. Moreover, it really, really isn't like there are writers who write about actual strategy and stats like Lowe, and writers who write about the personalities of the game, like Simmons, and Simmons is the best of the personality writers. There are millions of basketball writers who focus on personality and aren't serving up this tired tripe about who's the alpha dog and who isn't. Like for starters, pretty much every Grantland piece on basketball that isn't written by Simmons, Lowe or Goldsberry.
for those that care about such things the sixers new slogan is Together We Build
I would've preferred "Run Away From Us"
We're like a fine wine...
Just wait until 2016
We have a plan (cause honestly - they haven't since Iverson left)
It's not whether you win or lose but how much your players develop
not this year. this year it's how much you lose.
Wins are bad....mmmmmkay. with mr mackays balloon head.
Hinkie's camp motto: You eat what you kill.
Looking at exhibition schedule:
Does Spain have a consumer protection agency?
I'm telling you now Freddie & the Dreamers, Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders, Herman's Hermits & the late Davey Jones of the Monkees hailed from Manchester, northern England, site of game with Thunder.
'No KG-PP-Doc' Celtics at The Bob in Newark, DE...a buzz from Claymont to Smyrna.
"C'mon baby let's start today, c'mon baby let's play...the game of love.... love... love....love, love, love, love, love!"
Indeed, and moving a bit further ahead in time, the following venerable acts (to one degree or another) also hailed from Manchester:
Joy Division/New Order, The Fall, The Buzzcocks, Magazine, The Smiths/Morissey, Happy Mondays, the Stone Roses, 808 State, Simply Red, Oasis,The Chemical Brothers, I Am Kloot
And...going further than the British invasion....John Mayall
Everyone else agree that Sixers UNDER 16.5 is a shoe in?
“Coach (Brett Brown) is asking us big to space further out,”
“I was shooting two’s earlier and coach gave me a hard time so I figured I better step back"
This is an actual Spencer Hawes quote from training camp. Gotta love the early signs of coach Brown...
I don't love ANY coach who encourages the 7 foot man to move farther away from the basket - no.
Every time Spencer Hawes attempts a three, an angel gets its wings, clipped...and he should be junk punched
hawes sucks but id rather he shoot 3's than long 2's
A Hawes long two may be a good shot for our offense this year, compared to our other options. I think with Hawes the goal is to get a big empty stats season out of him so we can flip him for maybe a high second round pick and an undervalued role player.
I thought you were an athiest
I've always considered myself more of an agnostic...i don't believe in anything with out supporting evidence
Did anyone see where the Wages of Wins people said our worst case is 30 wins, our most likely case is 43 wins, and our best case is 48? Also, Houston is going to be the best team in the league and could go 73-9, Detroit will win 53-56 games, the Pacers will be a sub .500 team, as will the Warriors and Nets (not us though), Pelicans will win just 29 games and the Lakers will be worst in the league with 21. I really don't get how Wages of Wins continues to have a following. They're peddling junk science in the most literal sense.
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/08/26/the-nba-offseason-list-part-4-the-last-dress-rehersal/
Just giving it a cursory look, seems like they don't take injuries into account. They're projecting a full-season's worth of wins for both Richardson and Nerlens. They also seem to love Moultrie, but don't project him to play many minutes.
So their health might get us to 28 wins or something, but 43 wins would be impossible, and not taking injuries into account doesn't explain thinking the Nets, Pacers and Warriors will be sub .500 teams.
Yeah, I'm not defending their projections. A couple years ago someone did a study comparing their projections to just taking last year's standings and saying each team will have the exact same record this year. Last year's standings were much more accurate.
Do you have the link to that?
Nah. Not even sure if I read the study, might've just read it referenced somewhere.
is it possible we have the worst starting backcourt, worst starting frontcourt, and worst bench in the league? that sounds impossible, but when you break it down by position, we have probably the worst starting PG, SG, SF, and C, or at least bottom 3 at each of those positions (this is assuming you count Thad as a PF. if not then just swap PF in for SF on that list). and easily the worst bench.
I had some doubts that Hawes was a bottom 3 center, but it's hard to find 3 starting centers worse than him. Ironically, the one starting center that's easily worse, assuming he continues to start, is Depressed Fan fave Biyombo.
Bottom 3 might be a stretch for Hawes but he's certainly in the bottom 10 somewhere in a group that includes Kris Humphries, Chris Kaman, Robin Lopez, Dalembert, and Kendrick Perkins.
Starting wings, I would put Turner above DeMarre Carroll, Earl Clark, Fournier, Nick Young, Gerald Green, and maybe Alec Burks.
In regard to PG and SG/SF (whatever you're not calling Turner), the Sixers are definitely bottom 3.
All in all, it's a recipe for a top pick.
Zach Lowe on Evan Turner:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9755369/eric-bledsoe-anthony-davis-evan-turner-nba-all-intriguing-team
spot-on imo
I don't quite see the intrigue, but everything he says is right.
Great piece on Thad in sbnation's package of Sixers preview stories.
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/10/3/4719750/thaddeus-young-video-analysis-philadelphia-76ers
preseason game #1 is on NBATV tomorrow at 12 EST
A few people have speculated about OKC as a Thad destination should we trade him, so it'll be marginally interesting to see Steven Adams, Perry Jones, and Jeremy Lamb.
they dont face OKC til tuesday
they face Bilbao tomorrow
So I was thinking about how depressing it is that even if we finish with the worst record in the league this year, we'll only have a 25% chance at Wiggins. It kind of makes it difficult to obsess over losses (and therefore to care much about the season at all) when the difference between worst and second worst is just 5 percent. Then I wondered, what's the point of the lottery? Is there any evidence that it discourages teams from tanking? I don't know of any teams that choose not to tank because of the uncertainties of the lottery. And isn't there a reasonable argument that it encourages tanking? Realistically, only two or three teams a year are talent-poor enough to finish with the worst record; even if you sit your best players for most of the second half of the season, a team like Boston will usually have played its way out of its chance at the bottom spot in the first half. But with the lottery, more teams have a shot at the #1 pick, or at a top 3 pick. So because of the lottery, Boston, for example, will have a greater incentive to trade Rondo midseason than it would if it knew that even with all those post-trade losses, it would only get the 5th pick. The only good incentive, if you don't like tanking, that the lottery creates as far as I can see is that it reduces the incentives to an all-out race to the bottom between teams like us and Phoenix. Presumably if Phoenix knew it would get the #1 pick if it finished with the worst record, they'd be more willing to openly tank by doing things like sitting Dragic and Bledsoe with phantom injuries fairly early in the season; they'd be kind of crazy not to. But if all that's at stake is increasing their chances of the #1 pick by 5 percent, they're somewhat less willing to do things that look really bad. I don't really know, though, that discouraging egregious tanking among a few teams is worth creating an incentive for half a dozen to tank in somewhat less open ways. Or the unfairness of letting a team that already has some decent pieces pick up the #1 pick.
Also, if you're worried about really egregious tanking at the bottom, you could still have a lottery without creating a system where 5 teams have a 9 percent chance or better at the number 1 pick.
But the Sixers went out of their way to have a terrible team, they didn't lose their franchise player due to a freak injury or see him leave in free agency. Tanking is uninspiring and non creative and it's the NBA's way to deter teams from following that path and exposing the leagues's major flaw.
It does hurt some teams like Charlotte who are terrible and have no other means to turning their franchise around. The conspiracy theorist in me believes that the NBA likes to control the lottery, which is why I don't think the Sixers will get the #1 overall pick next year. If the Sixers get Wiggins they will always be referenced as the team who built their success on tanking.
San Antonio had injuries, OKC was "rebuilding", and Chicago was "lucky". The Sixers on the other hand traded away their best player who was 23 at the time for a guy coming off an year-ending ACL injury.
Pretty sure this is unprecedented in the major sports. A team trading its best player who was that young in order to get worse. I can't think of another example. Hope it doesn't work out like it did for the Browns (which is the closest example I can come up with recently).
My point is just that the lottery doesn't seem to deter tanking, because here we are. And that if anything, it encourages more teams to tank.
well we have a bunch of Sixers we've enver seen before vs a bunch of Spaniards, noon on NBATV - feel the excitement!
Pretty sad that I have no enthusiasm, zero excitement, and could give two shits about the opening game of the year, even if it's preseason. Thanks Sam.
The Brett Brown offense is showing some early similarities to the Doug Collins offense - Hawes handoffs. Heh
Hawes and ET actually helping to put this game away...hmm
In Pelicans/Jrue watch, Tyreke Evans was injured in last night's preseason opener and will possibly miss at least the preseason, and Jrue had 13 points, 3 assists, 6 fouls, and 8 turnovers in his Pelicans debut. They still won though, behind 26 points from Anthony Morrow, who I did not know was a Pelican. Eric Gordon still has lingering injury issues and is going to miss the first two weeks of preseason.
Some amusing quotes from Mike Brown on his #1 pick, whom he doesn't seem to be too high on:
Cavs coach Mike Brown said the lack of pressure will benefit both the rookie and the organization. “It’s a terrific situation for not only Bennett, but for us,” he said. “He can come along slowly, and if he blossoms early, it’s a bonus for everybody. “We don’t have to rely on a teenager because of the depth we have.” Unbeknownst to Brown, Bennett turned 20 years old on March 3. The veteran coach said he’s keeping a close eye on Bennett. “Yesterday, I felt he was in a fog, running in 15 inches of mud,” he said. “It’s down to nine inches of mud now." . . . “If he earns minutes, I’ll find him some time,” he said. “The great thing about it, it doesn’t have to be 35 minutes. Anything we throw at him is a bonus. He has a lot of time to improve.” . . . Brown cautioned not to get too hyped about Bennett making uncontested shots after practice.
“He has a nice stroke,” he said. “When you’re shooting the ball with no defense, that’s one thing. When you have to shoot the ball after busting your behind, doing four or five or six things in what we call multiple effort on defense, then contesting, rebounding and running the floor, and then Serge Ibaka is moving out on you to contest your shot, that’s a different shot than shooting it out here with no defense. Yes, he can stroke it a little bit.”
Brown also says he'll only play Bennett at the four, which is where Tristan Thompson, Varejao at times (oftentimes once Bynum is back), Tyler Zeller at times, and Earl Clark at times play.
FYI, the team the Sixers beat today (by one possession) lost to Real Madrid by 39 earlier in the week. Real Madrid being a first level "Euroleague" team and Bilboa a (good) second tier"Eurocup" team. Bother teams are in the ACB, which is the top Spanish Leage, but compete at different teirs in European competion.
Maybe only having one available big had a little to do with that. I'd like to think we're this bad, though.
There are teams in the Eurocup that are better than some of the teams in the Euroleague and Bilbao is among the best in the Eurocup.
Don't the best teams from Eurocup get to play in Euroleague the next year, while the worst Euroleague teams drop down into the Eurocup level?
If I understand it right, Bilboa is sort of at the level of the Sixers for most of the last 10 years, in that they are stuck in a mediocre level were they are the best of the worst but not at a level where they can compete with the best.
Well, it's kind of difficult to explain because in Europe the entire system works differently than in the US. But since i am from Europe and i am relatively familiar with how things work, i'll try to explain (i guess it might be interesting for you if you are interested) as briefly as possible.
In the US (as far as i know) you have 30 NBA teams and the D-League. The rest are college teams. In Europe there are thousands of professional and semi-professional basketball teams.
There are all kinds of leagues and organizations in Europe, but in general, the domestic leagues are the basic competitions for all teams. The best teams from the domestic leagues get a chance to play internationally the following season. There are three general tiers of international competition: the Euroleague that consists of 24 teams, the Eurocup that will have 48 teams this year and the Euro Challenge that includes some lower ranked teams. The simplest explanation (albeit not 100% accurate) is that the champions (and sometimes runners up, third placed teams etc.) of the best ranked domestic leagues in Europe get to play in the Euroleague. The next best teams have a chance to play in the Eurocup etc.
Almost every year there are 5-6 teams that play in the Eurocup but are actually better than the 5 worst teams in the Euroleague. This is mostly a result of teams getting better (or worse) compared to the previous year when they earned the spot in the international competitions.
Bilbao is around 5th-6th in the ACB, which is the best and highest ranked domestic league in Europe. 4 teams from the ACB play in the Euroleague (you can't have more than 4 teams from a single country), so Bilbao can only play in the Eurocup (where they ended up as runners up last year). But because the Spanish league is strong, they are still better than some of the participants in the Euroleague.
This might help you understands some of the basics for example (even though it's Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_Basketball
P.S. This a bit off topic, but i guess it's still basketball :)
Oh and to reply to what you said, promotion and relegation work in the domestic league. For the most part the Euroleague and the Eurocup are not directly connected through promotions and relegations, but rather teams that can't qualify for the Euroleague get to play in the Eurocup. The only exception is the winner of the Eurocup that has a chance to play in the Euroleague in the following season.
Thanks. I had read the part about the Eurocup winner getting to play in the Euroleague and made too big of a jump from there.
You can get a sense of what the NBA thinks about tanking from its bizarre series of offseason report cards. We get an F, Orlando gets a D, the Jazz get a D+ for letting Jefferson and Millsap walk, while the Knicks get a B for adding Bargnani and Artest and Minnesota gets a B for a lot of meaningless lateral moves. Comments include:
"Carter-Williams and Noel have plenty of potential, and the Sixers will likely have two more Lottery picks in next year's (much stronger) Draft. This is basically the route the Sonics/Thunder took to The Finals and there are certainly worse plans to have in today's NBA.
But no one knows just how good the two rookies will be in three or four years. What is certain is that, right now, this is one of the worst teams in the NBA." No shit. And it just continues like that for every rebuilding team.
http://www.nba.com/reportcard/offseason/2013/sixers/index.html
Looking way too far ahead obviously but, say they end up with the #3 pick and the Pelicans make the playoffs (both very likely), what kind of magic can Hinkie possibly create that would result in more than incremental baby-like steps for the next several years? You're holding cards of 1) a raw non-shooting PG that most keen observers don't place much faith/belief in going forward, 2) a frail also very raw big man with a repaired knee that isn't your prototype true 5-man (due to said size/weight issues) that will have trouble as a 4-man on D (struggle guarding quicker stretch 4's or stronger 4's on the blocks) and on O (shooting range is highly questionable outside of 4-5 feet), who is better suited as a help-side defender and lob/oop finisher at this point in his career and 3) an undersized power forward that really isn't a small forward on an 8 mil a year deal.
Basically you miss on the premier talent(s) in this draft and the pick coming to you is out of the lottery in the teens so you possibly add two more pups to the already immature litter. It seems like we should just go ahead and relegate ourselves to this supposed NBA team being nothing more than a minor league D-League level franchise for the forseeable future (4-5 years). This guy can be consumed and drown in all the analytics he wants but this chance he's taking is more subject to backfire and not work out moreso than it succeeding. Luck plays too much of a factor for it not to.
I've long grown tired of the mediocre cycle this squad was in but I have not shared some of the same excitement and optimism concerning this new GM that others in the community have. I often ask myself if this GM was not of the analytics background/variety and he tore the team down by trading its' best player on draft night would the optimists still hold the "plan" in such a positive light?
Color me very very skeptical and only time will tell but I sense a long stretch of futility and laughingstock of the league status. There's too many things that have to go right and the ever-present luck falling into place for it to succeed.
(Just wanted to share some bottled up feelings from the summer that I haven't put out there.)
Agreed. The Sixers could be the next OK City or could be the next Sacramento. Odds might be more likely that the Sixers will be the next Sacramento.
Frankly I was pretty irritated when Hinkie made no moves in the summer to at least acquire some demonstrated players of reasonable competence. However, once I resigned myself to this radical experiment, I was at least pleased that he acquired young players like Wroten and Darius Morris who might develop into players with fair NBA careers if given the chance. With all of the injuries, if he doesn't acquire a player or two with some presence upfront, these games are going to be really brutal. A frontline of Thad, Hawes, Olbrecht, and Lavoy is not going to hold its own.
They will have one high and medium first rounder in the summer of 14 and sufficient money to acquire some players who can make a difference. It's possible that they could be relevant sooner rather than later. We'll see.
Hypotheticals I know, but let's say they get two decent players in the upcoming draft with the high and medium picks, and add a veteran or two who as you say can make a difference. They'll have 4 really young guys who can all still be considered raw, inexperienced and not a game-changer yet, if ever (as most phenoms don't usher themselves into the league and take over right away while leading their team to near-contender status). They'll have a difference maker possibly, or two (as you said). They're likely, if they're fortunate that the rest of the conference is watered down enough, to only be right back to where they were - a borderline 8 seed.
And this is probably, at a minimum, 4 years from now when they will be relevant enough to be first round fodder for a true contender. So I guess what I'm getting to is, when you get back to that point as that proverbial dreaded 8 seed, you're no longer bad enough to get a high lottery pick and you're not good enough to contend. You're back to the same point you were 4-5 years prior when you had a young player on the rise that was maybe worth building around. Elite free agents still won't want to come here and if any of the four pups aren't showing signs of stardom (the 2 picked this year aren't likely to be stars) what do you do then with as little trading that goes on due to the CBA?
There's just too much luck and too many things that have to fall in the right place for this risk to manifest itself into the ultimate reward. And since I'm of the belief that it is not likely to work, going through numerous years of futility and at my age and being that I'm an avid watcher of their games live, it's just not worth it. The risk may have needed to be taken (maybe not as drastically as he's done/doing) but it's just too damn high for my liking, that's all.
(Wishfully none of this worrying matters and we get a star with that high pick next year and it's all for naught)
You could be exactly right. In three or four years we could be back to where we were two or three years ago.
But, that's the beauty of Hinkie's moves (for himself anyway). The near future looks so bad that if the Sixers in three years hence return to where they were three years ago, that will look like a success by then.
I just hope the front office is a bit more ambitious than that and successful in getting compatible free agents to come here. The fans deserve something after putting up with last year and the coming year.
"I often ask myself if this GM was not of the analytics background/variety and he tore the team down by trading its' best player on draft night would the optimists still hold the "plan" in such a positive light?"
No, for the very sensible reason that we wouldn't trust a Billy King-type GM to make the right moves after obtaining a top pick. For instance, if Hinkie or Morey had been the GM in Cleveland during the LeBron years, instead of the geniuses who surrounded LeBron with Larry Hughes and Antwan Jamison and Shaq and Ben Wallace, I think it could've worked out. But in a small market, LeBron was probably always doomed to failure with a bumbling GM.
Other than that, I don't think we really know anything about how good or great the #3 pick might be in this draft, so the prospect of our only picking third shouldn't fill us with dread. Maybe Dante Exum will be a superstar in the NBA. He's an 18 year old guard whose main weaknesses are his strength and his shooting - two things that he can improve on hugely at his age. I don't even think we know for certain that Wiggins will be the #1 pick. Maybe Randle has a much better season. Or maybe he has a disappointing season and falls to third. Maybe the team with the second pick is run by a nut and we end up with the consensus #2 in the draft at 3. These things happen all the time.
True on the Billy King-type, but why (or how can you) seem so convinced that a Hinkie or Morey would make the right moves? I mean, we have no history or background to go off of being that the guy's never held such a position. This is kind of what I was hitting on when I mentioned the thoughts of lending credence to this unproven guy just because of his analytics background. That's basically what I think you're saying here. He's an analytics guy so he gets the benefit of the doubt. When to me, in reality, he should get no more of a pass for what he's done/trying to do than if Thorn, Collins, or DiLeo or any other non-analytics guy attempted it. At which point, I think there'd be tons of doubt and reluctance to buy in to it. But the guy that pores over numbers and formulas is granted blind faith?
(And I don't want to ever ever end up with the "consensus" #2 again. Ever.)
Well, I basically believe that analytics have reached the point where, while they're neither perfectly accurate measurements of how good players are in the present, nor (and much less) perfectly accurate predictors of how good players will be in the future, they're quite alright, and a lot better than (a) looking at raw numbers or (b) scouting a player's skills. So I think a GM armed with these tools that many GM's don't use to nearly as great a degree will tend to get the better of trades, and tend to make smarter free agent signings than the majority of GM's, and possibly draft better. And I think that's borne out to some degree by the record of analytically minded GM's, like Orlando's GM, Morey, Denver's former GM, and Presti. Even the Jrue deal is a promising data point. I mean, you trade a point guard who's STILL fighting to prove he's a better player than Ty Lawson (and on paper looks a lot worse) for the best prospect in the draft and a low lottery pick in the best draft in years. How'd we get so much? It seems like a classic case of a team overvaluing a guy because he made an All-Star team once, and only because several better players were injured or in career-worst slumps. But that's how non-analytic GM's value players, and I think Hinkie can repeatedly take advantage of these inefficiencies.
I don't know that analytics will ever supercede scouting a player's skills for me but that's for another day. Maybe combining them, yes, but the old school approach will be hard to shake.
I'll ask you this, if Noel caps out as a Dalembert-type (hardly no offense, quality shot blocker, decent rebounder) and the low lottery pick ends up as say about as good as a Thad, would you consider that a good return for Jrue? A no O Dalembert and a tweener with a little O but no boarding prowess Thad for Jrue at his age.
I guess the only rebut I've got is that Hinkie can't take advantage as you say if he doesn't have any accumulated pieces worthy of fleecing someone else.
It's just interesting to me to see the rope being extended and faith given to such an unproven guy all in the name of analytics. Because there's no proof in the pudding yet, which doesn't mean we should all be full of doubt but we also shouldn't be so full of confidence either. It pretty much all falls back on hope - especially for the believers, not so much for the skeptics.
"I guess the only rebut I've got is that Hinkie can't take advantage as you say if he doesn't have any accumulated pieces worthy of fleecing someone else."
I don't know; Morey managed to flip Landry for Martin, lousy players for picks, Martin and picks for Harden. Thad and Turner have some value. Thad probably has quite a lot.
In 2014 draft watch news, the team many think is our stiffest competition for the 2014 NBA draft (even though they have approximately three legit NBA players to our one, plus two decent rookies), the Phoenix Suns, are blowing out their international matchup, Maccabi Haifa. At the moment the score's 58-34. To put this in some sort of perspective, Maccabi Haifa lost by just 8 to the Warriors in last year's preseason. The Pelicans still don't know when Tyreke Evans will be back, but Anthony Davis, unfortunately, is having a really great start to his preseason. Jrue, picking up from last year, had 13 points and 4 turnovers tonight on 5-13 shooting and zero trips to the line.
eddies', the Sixers were horrible last year. they've advanced past the 1st rd in the playoffs 1 time in the last decade (to the 2nd rd!). with this upcoming draft i think you could argue they picked the perfect time to finally blow up a sinking ship.
even if they don't end up with a superstar in this year's draft, the point is acquiring assets the way Houston did, so that when a trade for a superstar does become available you have the assets to swing a deal. you need a superstar in this league to contend. that's the only thing Hinkie is concerned with right now.
A couple of thoughts off the top of my head regarding the team building discussion from above:
1. I absolutely agree that luck is a major factor in the NBA. That's why you have to do the correct and smart moves and hope that eventually they will work out. It's simple statistics.
2. "Analytical" GMs do not base their decisions on analytics. They use analytics in addition to other tools like traditional scouting, psychological evaluation etc to form their opinion and decision. The reason why a lot of us have faith in Hinkie is because he is open-minded and not opposed to use new modern technologies. He's never said that he will not use the traditional stuff - all the "analytical" GMs do use scouting heavily. It's as simple as - Having more information is always better.
3. @eddies' heady's Why do you think the fate of the Sixers franchise depends on the 4 players picked in the first round in 2013 and 2014? The point of the picks is not just how good a player can become, but how good of an asset the picks and players are/will be. The Sixers will not be rebuilding for a long time. This is a one or maximum two year deal. After that they'll try to contend.
Which alternative avenues can they pursue?
- They can package some of Turner, Hawes, Thad, Noel, MCW and the 2 picks in 2014 for developed stars.
- They will have plenty of cap space they will be able to use on high end free agents or to acquire additional assets which can later be used in a trade for a star.
What i am trying to say is, maybe none of those 4 young players will even be on the team in 2 years. It's all about finding the collection of players that can make the team a contender. Contrary to popular belief, championship teams are not made through the draft. They are made via good trades, but in order to facilitate good trades you need assets which often means high end draft picks.
Some examples of players that might be available in the near future (next 2 years) via trade, free agency or both: Love, Aldridge, Horford, Millsap, Gallinari, Westbrook, Ibaka, Lopez, Hibbert, Monroe, Favors, Hayward, Asik, Batum, Deng, Dragic, Pekovic, Lawson etc. Things change fast in the NBA and players want to move on to greener pastures. You don't think you can build a contender out of some of those players?
Think about how Houston acquired Harden, Boston acquired Garnett and Allen, the Lakers acquired Gasol, the Clippers acquired Paul... It's all about waiting for the right moment and having the assets to pounce. The biggest reason why people like Hinkie is because he is all about the assets and not because of his analytics or draft scouting ability.
Good points by Mike, Tray and Xsago.
Of course it takes a ton of luck to win championships. It also helps to be in a favorable location (city/climate/taxes.) There is no sure fire way to go from bad to contention in less than 5 years. But yo can try to put yourself in the best position "to get lucky", and on the flip side there are approaches than hinder your chances.
For the past 30+ years all of the titles have gone to teams who have one of a small handful of players (MJ, Magic Duncan, Kobe, Shaq etc.) From 1991 to 2010 in all 15 of the 20 champions were won by MJ, Kobe or Duncan... not coincidentally they best 3 players of that era. Now Lebron is the current great, and he has won the last 2. This is how the NBA has always been, and I don't expect a major sea change anytime soon.
What makes it worse is that even if you draft one of those players they may not chose to stay. Kobe forced his way on draft day to LA and was refusing to play for a number of teams. Shaq forced his way to LA. Lebron and Wade colluded their way to Miami as part of a plan they concocted while in the dream team that included Wade's owner agreeing to blow up his team and sacrifice losses for the promise of Lebron in a few years.
But you also have guys like Duncan and Durant who seem genuinely committed to working with their small market teams to build a lasting contended- so it can happen... but you have to put yourself in the best position you can to find one of those players. Because you can't change Philly as a destination with regards to where it is seen as a city, taxes, climate, nightlife, etc. Most stars are fine with Philly, but they won't force their way here like they would for LA, Miami, NY or tax free Texas.
So you maximize what you have through ownership spending on facilities, coaches and management. You treat your players first class and you try and build a buzz around your franchise that makes it a more appealing destination. And the most sure-fire way to build a buzz around a franchise is to have a young rising star. Not a second level player like Jrue or Iguodala, but a real rising star in the tradition of Iverson or Barkley.
The team gave it its best shot by trying to build around Jrue and Bynum. If they could have found success then they might have had a 6 year window to attract a superstar to team with them and push them to contention. It was, at least on paper, a plausible approach. But after that failed they were left with only Jrue and minimal assets. Building incrementally from there would have all but guaranteed a repeat of the Iguodala years, where they waste a good player's prime trying to climb to mere respectability. In the meantime, your picks are in the 10-18 range, minimizing your chances of making a franchise altering pick.
So they swung and whiffed with Jrue/Bynum and were faced with a long, slow slog back to maybe the second round of the playoffs in 3 years if they made incremental additions. So that left them with 2 options: either go "Boston/NJ" and try and flip your young roster for some established vet second tier superstars or go their current tank route in order to maximize the chips you have down of different roulette numbers in an effort to condense what would typically take several years of stinking into one or two giant years of crap.
It was not really that hard of a choice, given with their diluted talent base from losing picks and assets in the Bynum trade they lacked even the opportunity to go the Boston/NJ route. It took courage to trade Jrue, knowing that there was a good chance that their all in risk would not play out and they would lose their jobs if they did not get the right guys in the draft in the next 2 years. Just like with Bynum trade, they could make the best choice available and still lose there jobs over the consequences that are not fully in their control.
So if you want to root for a team that has some control over its destiny in terms of building towards a contender then I'd recommend either LA or following the team that drafts the next generational player (or just root for OKC as they will be good for a long time.) It tough, because in the 80's the Sixers were one of those franchises that had a stacked deck and that all ended in the 90's. But to stay a sane Sixers fan now is to know that they will be either bad or mediocre unless they are both lucky and smart. And one without the other won't cut it.
Even though I'm not a big fan of tanking and trading away 23 year old all-stars, I am at peace with where the Sixers are. If they aren't able to land a franchise player in this year's draft then the process is going to continue the following year. My hope is that they can get that player before they turn into the Charlotte Bobcats. It's just going to be an era of terrible basketball.
Perhaps MCW, Noel, Thad, this non-franchise player we draft, and the other non-franchise player we get with the Pelicans' pick (draftexpress currently projects Mitch McGary at 13 - this is a very deep draft) would be a pretty fun team to watch. And maybe at that point we'll be able to make some deals with all these young appealing assets to land a franchise player, or maybe just the promise of all these young players, plus all our cap room, will lure a free agent franchise player here.
They tried with Brand and Iggy and then with Jrue and Bynum. Having been through all of those seemingly wasted years makes it easier to swallow the bitter pill of tanking. But it won't be pretty. At least we don't have to worry about the team being a disappointment.
Some very good points here.
Also i'd like to add that i'm not a big believer in tanking in general, but i am a believer in doing the right things at the right time. This year is the right year to "rebuild" and get a high draft pick (asset). Last year was not. This is the biggest reason why i am on board with the way Hinkie handled this and not on board with, for example, what Charlotte did
And most importantly, the NBA is a dynamic league. The quality of the rosters and the perception of the teams can change on a yearly basis. The key is being on the front line of those who can make those sudden moves happen.
I know it's preseason but Sixers only 7 point underdogs today...
Here's a bleak thought. Under Collins, the Sixers had the worst shot selection in the NBA - a long-two centric offense. We got to the line less than any team in the league for several seasons straight. Part of that was personnel, but (a) some of that bad-shot-happy personnel is gone (Jrue) and (b) a lot of it was coaching. Now we have a new coach who's pretty smart, and what do you know, we took 20 threes in our first preseason game and 30 in the second, got to the line 46 times in the first preseason game and 31 in the second. Even with less talent on the roster, our offense can't help but improve substantially from last season if this keeps up.
Isn't that contradictory to the common goal? We definitely don't want a substantially improved offense this year. Talk about bleak.
That was what I was saying. Just to compare apples and apples, in our first two preseason games last year we shot a total of 33 threes, 48 foul shots, and 141 shots inside the arc. This year in our first two preseason games, 50 threes, 77 foul shots, and just 105 shots inside the arc. On the other hand, we have had 46 turnovers in our first two games, so that could help.
A smarter offense doesn't necessarily mean improved offense. Not yet anyway. The team will take a ton of threes, but won't make many because they are not good shooters. They will at times force shots at the basket and might have a worse "at-the-rim" percentage than usual. They will turn the ball over a ton. And they can't rebound to save their lives.
They'll be bad. Really bad. The positive here is that they will be bad in a fun way, not the dull Sixers of the past few years.
Assuming that the team hits just .333 of its threes, every time you switch out a long two for a three, you're replacing a shot that, on our team, is only worth .7 points per possession (and on even the best midrange shooting teams is worth .8 points per possession) for one that's worth 1 point per possession. And that's nothing compared to what getting to the line more will do to our offense. On the other hand, increased turnover rate, and our defense should be awful.
Don't worry i get the math, i just don't think the Sixers will shoot anywhere near 33% from 3 as a team. I won't be surprised if they end up below 30% as a team.
Hawes will be in the low 30s
Anderson will be in the mid to high 30s
Turner might be in the mid 30s, but he won't attempt a ton
MCW, Wroten, Thad will be mid 20s despite taking a lot of threes
Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but i fully expect the Sixers to have a bottom 5 offense this year.
Thad will be mid 20s? He's a career 33% three point shooter. The two years he actually shot them, 34% and 35%. Wroten and MCW have always been lousy shooters, this is true, although maybe we're coaching them up. Even supposing we only shoot 30%, though, these are still significantly better shots than the bread and butter of our offense in past seasons. That said, we could easily go from being the lowest-turnover team in the league to one of the worst teams with the ball, and we will be a lot worse in other areas too, so I am pretty confident that we'll be bad.
I'd also like to point to the fact that Hawes, Turner and Thad all attempted multiple long twos in the game, whereas none of the others even thought about it.
20 points on 21 possessions for Turner. The more things change...
Sorry, 19 pts on 21 pos My bad.
Can't agree with the jab at Turner here; he has gone to the line 22 times in 2 games. He also appears to be in decent shape. If he has a normal day from FT yesterday, his stats look better. I'm not upset at what I've been seeing from Turner so far(relatively speaking, of course).
If hits his average from the line yesterday he's at 21 pts on 21 pos. Which is still putrid.
Noel, "endearing"
MCW, "emerging leader"
Turner, "a generic player"
White, "we are going to help him"
Brown's optimistic rhetorical start brings to mind the late Mister (Fred) Rogers, who was one heckuva coach himself. In an ironic situational twist, "Coach" Rogers (b. 1928) shared a neighborhood, Latrobe PA, with trailblazer-to-be Arnold Palmer (b. 1929) during the Great Depression. Now how's about them apples, young fellers!?!
He's no John Lucas. Bring back Richard Dumas.
24 players (!) Lucas's 2nd & last year here. That wasn't a pro team; Lucas ran a YMCA Unlimited squad. Pitiful roster. Yet JL went 94-49 in previous 2 with Spurs. Classic example of talent & lack of talent determining outcomes, coach as knickknack.
FYI: open 87ers tryout Saturday 8 am at Philadelphia Community College gym; I'll be wearing high black Cons, a red/white/blue headband, sharp elbows, an unflappable handle and a tickle-the-twine J (including a Sam Jones banker).
I'll be sure to bring an extra pair of goggles.
Great. The Cliff Robinson model is my preference. I'll bring ya my spare set of kneepads. Gotta gird for war!
Today in Jrue/Pelicans watch, Anthony Davis continues to impress in preseason action (29, 9, 4 blocks), and Jrue continues to stink it up (9 points on 14 shots, 5 turnovers, several of which were steals by Oladipo). Also, they announced plans to start Stiemsma at center.
Magic Johnson retiring from ESPN NBA Coverage
it's already a better NBA season
Doug is on the show now though. And Doris Burke, although I don't mind her. Also:
http://deadspin.com/sources-magic-johnson-left-espn-because-of-bill-simmon-1443543687
Oh and Avery Johnson. Why does ESPN always find the most boring ex-players and coaches, while NBATV and TNT almost always pick pretty interesting ones? Jalen's ESPN's one token engaging ex-player, but he's a worthless analyst and he's not even that engaging. I would take Malik Rose over almost all of the NBA talking heads on ESPN, and he's not even that good.
http://media.philly.com/images/526*395/100913_evan_turner_flex_600.jpg
discuss...
Looks like he only worked his glamour muscles.
Ok, he's obviously added muscle somewhere. Not sure that's where I would add it if I were an NBA player, but, if it's indicative to added lean muscle mass across his body, great. He looks thinner in the face. Will it make a significant difference on the court? Remains to be seen, but everyone who was complaining about him being doughy and out of shape will be happy. . . Or maybe not.
"Indicative of", sorry for the typo
Remains to be seen if he's really in shape. If he is, great work. It's not like being in shape is your job or anything.
Maybe Turner will have a real breakout season with all this added lean muscle mass he may or may not have. And the thinner face will help him navigate in tight quarters in the paint; we all know the head's the biggest part of the body.
Tonight's game is not available anywhere, correct?
correct but i think its on the radio(97.5)
You can try http://www.feed2all.eu/type/basketball.html for tonight's game.
"McNamara's band", as often is the case, may bend the Seventy-Sixers' trombones tonight. But who's counting? Enjoy your Friday night. And raise one for the late crewcutted Charlie Swift. And Bill "Soup" Campbell. And "Big" Al Meltzer. And the late gentleman Jim Barniak. And the late Andy Musser. Respectable broadcast announcers, all. The green & white vs. the red, white & blue - pro basketball's apogee.
Some observations after watching the Sixers play the Celtics:
- Thad has developed a right-hand dribble move.
- Hawes looks quicker and in better shape.
- Turner's shot looks better: still weird but a quicker release, holding it in front instead of over his head. No improvement in accuracy however.
- The team has a fast-break mindset, lots of long passes. Nobody held the ball, very little dribbling except for Turner.
- Carter-Williams' offensive skills will translate. He goes to the basket with confidence and under control in spite of trying some difficult moves. Always looking to get into the paint. Very athletic.
- Look for a lot of alley-oops this year. MCW can throw it and he'll probably be good on the receiving end too.
- Vander Blue is going to stick. Seems very smart. Drew a couple of shooting fouls with his quickness, calls rookies don't usually get. (One was against another rookie on a 3-point attempt. The other was on ace defender Bradley.)
- Wroten and MCW are both fearless with the ball. There will be a lot of turnovers this year.
- If the Sixers are going to be "really bad," the Celtics might be historically bad. The Sixers' coaching staff seemed much better prepared. I didn't see a single possession where the team didn't seem to be on the same page. The Cs looked like they don't have a plan.
- The Celtics didn't do well with their rookies and FAs. Olynyk is okay but makes Hawes look fast. Good shooter. Pressey is not good. Dave Cowens likes him though. (What an improvement over Tommy. Don't know if he's permanent or just doing a few preseason games.)
- They're going to give up a ton of offensive rebounds. Nobody boxes out.
- Brad Stevens needs some new suits. Looks like he gets his ties from the 6.99 clearance table.
- Royce White is not in shape. Good ballhandler, looks to pass. Terrible shooter.
- Thad is definitely in shape, as always. He's going to have a great year. His jumper still looks shaky, but he's playing in the paint almost all the time now. Lots of interior passing and quick layups.
- Suddenly the Celtics have almost no 3-point game. Jordan Crawford is their only threat from deep. Courtney Lee gives them a little bit there.
- James Anderson is a very good athlete and shooter. Good on the break.
All in all a well coached team that plays strong team defense and keeps the ball moving. They'll score a lot of points because they'll have a lot of possessions. They'll give up points on turnovers and defensive mismatches, obviously. Noel will fit in nicely and give them an interior defender. (Cowens isn't sold on him as an intimidator, says he's a weak-side shot blocker and will have trouble defending NBA bigs.) There's a nice collection of point guards - Darius Morris has speed and skills, Wroten and MCW are big and can play defense, Vander Blue has great energy - a very athletic group. Khaliff Wyatt looks like the odd man out, but isn't he a 2? Blue plays more like a 2 also but seems to have a good handle. I think they're gonna be fun to watch.
I'm surprised about Blue. I went to see his first round game in the NCAA tournament this March; he was clearly the only NBA prospect out there, but in spite of dominating the last few minutes of the game, he didn't really appear to have any offensive skills. His college stats and scouting reports bear that out. I thought at most he might amount to a "3 and D" (plus some stuff in transition) guy in the pros if he ever got his shot down. Generally speaking, we seem to have gotten a good group of guards off the scrap heap. Turner might be the worst player among them (excluding Wyatt, who's like a poor man's Turner), even if he's the most talented. I'm a little concerned that we won't be able to lose 60+ games with this group if we don't trade Thad.
Don't be concerned for 3 reasons:
1. They will turn the ball over so much that it will make it almost impossible to win a game. What we are witnessing is the exact opposite of what Collins was preaching. And unlike in preseason, opposing teams will kill us with points off turnovers when the real stuff begins.
2. The Sixers generally tried harder than the opposing teams in all 3 games. Wroten for example looks great in this setting but he will struggle somewhat to replicate this production in the regular season.
3. As weird as that sounds trading Turner, Hawes or both midseason will do more than enough to lose a ton of games after the allstar break.
My observations from the game:
- Thad definitely has improved his handle. He also made some nice interior passes. This could be another improving aspect of his game.
- Turner looks to get to the basket far more and surprisingly visibly restrained himself of arguing with the refs and ran back instead. That's good for him as it was always his biggest weakness IMO. He did have one terrible possession when he dribbled out the clock and shot a contested long two though.
- I've been mildly impressed with MCW so far. He looks like a legit floor general. Doesn't force tough fancy passes, makes the simple plays, and looks capable of penetrating to the rim at will. He will need to start thinking about generating some offense for himself eventually though.
- Wroten had his worst preseason game so far, yet was still ok. The good comes with the bad with him, and the Sixers will need to figure out how to get him under control at times. Made some really impressive passes though.
- Anderson looks like a legitimate rotation wing player. Good role player potential.
- Hawes was his usual self.
- I think Brown has done a good job so far coaching the team. They are clearly buying in and all on the same page.
Sure, they're on the same page in just the third game that doesn't count. Continual losses and adversity haven't set in yet.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24063998/76ers-and-celtics-a-lesson-in-basketball-mortality
Really impressed by what Brett Brown has been trying to do with the team. It might translate into bringing out skills from middling players that would have not translated if they were put in more traditional roles on a more talented team.
My question is whether having a good system, coach and chemistry will actually translate into many more wins given the low overall talent level. In an ideal world it results more watchable basketball but not many more wind. But the other possibilities are either more wins than they expect or seeing the style of play disintegrate as the weight of losing caused the team to fracture.
More wins than expected unless we get completely eaten by turnovers. I don't really get why we're moving Hawes and Thad behind the three-point line, unless it's about boosting their trade value (although maybe that is the whole point). We seem to be doing a lot of stuff that's designed to wring a few extra wins out of this roster, and that isn't really stuff that we need to be putting in place now for future seasons.
I understand what they are doing with Hawes. They want to teach their wings to penetrate and break down the defense. Hawes can't set a pick and he can't finish a good look inside. But he can pull his defender away and clear out the lane by seeing up far away from the basket. And give he hits a few threes then it's a bonus.
Also, he makes for a drive and kick target that they otherwise don't have. It is not about wins as much as being able to run a set where the guards can drive and then either finish, dish or kick out for the open shoot. Right down Thad is the only guy they can dish to and Hawes and Anderson are the only guys they can kick out to.
Very good points. But you do have to wonder whether teaching our guards, only one of whom stands a chance of being a big part of our future, is worth potentially coming away with only the 4th pick in this draft. To be sure, whether Wiggins is all he's cracked up to be is a pretty open question. I can recall similar hype for Rudy Gay early in his college career. Nevertheless, if we get outtanked by Phoenix or Boston and don't get a top two pick, we're all going to be pulling our hair out.
Brett Brown will coach his ass off this year, only to be looked down upon as a result.
I'm not yet convinced that their preseason play will translate into more wins than was previously expected. But I'd hope that if they do start winning some games then that will up the value of guys like Et and HAwes to where they can trade them for value and bring the team back to the bottom. I do worry that ET will somehow sell himself as a long term option.
As for Thad- if they have any hope of a quick turnaround by drafting a star and then bringing in FA in the next 2-3 years then they should keep Thad around. He's a winner.
Very well said and i agree with this fully.
I think the Sixers visibly tried much harder than the opposing team in all of the games so far. That won't happen in the regular season. The game will inevitably slow down due to much better transition defense and teams will scout for the Sixers weaknesses. And right now they have no idea who those weaknesses are because a arge number of the players have never really been scouted by NBA teams.
I think we could finish with a better record than the Suns, Bobcats, maybe the Jazz, even the Celtics if they trade Rondo and go all-out for the top pick. The Bobcats for example, even with Al, are not a team with any particularly efficient options on offense. Al's the best thing they have and he makes about half of his shots, can't shoot threes, barely gets to the line, and is going to slow down their offense, which is a problem when transition opportunities is the main way (only way in some cases) most of those guys score. They play, and sometimes even start together, multiple absolute zeroes on offense (MKG, Bismack), which always makes it hard on the few scorers they have. The one spot of hope I see on offense is Ben Gordon potentially having a comeback year, but other than Jannero Pargo he's the only shooter they have, so he may not come by a ton of open shots when Al gets doubled. Their defense was league-worst last year, probably should improve a bit with new coaching, but has no real reason to get better when Jefferson and Zeller will likely be their starting 4 and 5.
As far as Turner and Hawes building value, I hope so. I have been really happy to see how positive Brown is in interviews about those guys. Every interview he's saying how Turner's maturing into "a real leadah." It probably helps their trade value more than we think, especially when Turner hasn't had the greatest reputation as far as personality goes in the past.
"Nevertheless, if we get outtanked by Phoenix or Boston and don't get a top two pick, we're all going to be pulling our hair out."
Speak for yourself. The day that whether or not the Sixers get Andrew Wiggins (vs. someone else) means that much to me is the day I officially declare myself a loser and draw a big "L" on my forehead to warn everyone.
The Sixers had the #2 pick in the Duncan draft and I remember it well. #1 would have changed things a bit.
What I remember is that my life progressed just fine without the Sixers getting Tim Duncan and that I enjoyed too many Sixers' games to count after the 1997 draft.
Yeah, in the larger scheme of our lives missing out on Duncan was hopefully not a crushing blow, but as fans of the team it's about as devastating a turn of events as anything that happened to the franchise in the last thirty years, right? Wiggins might be a superstar of that order, we don't know yet, but you'd certainly like to draft a player who has a chance of being that good.
I guess the bottom line is that I intend to try to enjoy this team this year as I have tried to every year that I have had access to watching them (although last year was really tough) and I won't regret a single win that they may achieve. Anytime that they have a chance to win a game, I won't be hoping that they lose it while I'm watching. If they manage to win over 25 games and don't get one of the top three picks as a result, I won't feel any angst about the season.
If New Orleans doesn't get a top five pick, the Sixers should have two well placed picks. If Hinkie can't get value from that and the amount of cap space he'll have, then he'll make Billy King, Stefanski, and Thorn look like Red Auerbach.
I just really don't get fans like you, who will root for, or at least "won't regret," an extra win or two that could cost dozens or even hundreds of wins, chances at winning the Finals, etc. I mean, suppose you were a Spurs fan in 1997, the year they won 20 games, third worst in the league, and won the lottery and drafted Duncan. Fourth worst in the league, Denver, won 21 games; they drafted Tony Battie. Fifth worst was us; we won 22 and drafted Van Horn. If you're watching the last two games of the season in 1997 in San Antonio, knowing that a couple extra wins could knock you down from a 16% chance at the #1 pick to an 8% chance, how do you not ardently root for losses? One or two extra wins that year would have cost the Spurs four championships, a fifth Finals appearance, and, just going by Duncan's total win shares over his 16-year career, 184 regular-season wins and 33 playoff wins. I can sort of understand fans who don't like to see their teams rebuild, but once you know your team is going to be pretty awful in a given season, how can you not regret a win in a meaningless season that could have catastrophic effects on the team for decades to come?
I don't mind when a young team improves and wins a few extra games late in the season as they develop. I also don't mind if they lose a close game or two that helps their lottery position. So i'm fine either way.
What I do mind is when they start benching young players in favor of some vets on one year deals who will squeeze out a few wins to try and save a coach/GM's job. For example bring in Joe Smith in the AI trade for a half a season and playing him heavy minutes down the stretch so that a terrible team can win a bunch of meaningless games (winning 18 of their last 25 After they were assured of missing the playoffs.) Those types of empty wins bug me. Sacrificing playing time for rookies so that you can say you won over 40 games bothers me.
The same could be said of Andre Miller in that deal. Of course, at the time Iguodala looked like he might have real star potential on both ends of the court, so I guess I get why we chose to get veteran value back. But it led to a wasted half-decade.
FYI - For those that have the automatic renewal of League Pass on Directv, they show some, but not all, preseason games every year. Last night's game was televised but not sure about the rest of the preseason games yet to be played.
Are they showing the preseason games on the online leaguepass?
Yes, but not all are televised.
I don't think so. I no longer have the full TV/broadband league pass, but my Choice broadband subscription says that the games don't start until Oct. 29th. Maybe the full TV League Pass subscription shows all preseason games but I doubt broadband only does. Pretty miserly in my view.
Well i have international broadband and i was able to watch the Boston game...
A few comments on all the great previous ones; Eddies, I tend to be a glass half full guy and think Noel will be more of a Ratliff type than Sam type player. And M.C. Williams looks like more of a true p.g. at this time than Jrue did in his early stages, but Xsago made a good point that getting to the rim and creating his own offense is vital to him being more than a soso p.g. in this league.
I think of how Hinkie handled the 2nd round of this draft, skipping over some talented players [T.Mitchell, R.Ledo, R.McCullom,G.Rice Jr.] and can't help but think while watching our team that if a guy shows potential this year he may be moved. That is my biggest conflict with our teams plan.
With a limited amount of true bigs in the league now a Thad, Nerlens tandem could be scary defensively if we find a star to build around. tk76, could you ever see Turner playing a T.Parker type role under Brown if M.C.Williams becomes a standstill 3pt. threat like he tried in the recent O.K. City game.
I want Turner gone next year because of his personality and unwillingness to fit in on the court but wonder what he has to do to get resigned. Does Sam have numbers written down somewhere on a piece of paper that Turner has to reach? Shooting % [48%], free throw attempts, turnovers etc. that he would resign him at?
And finally my boy Spence; did you guys catch the stat given by the announcer during the Okl.City game. Spence was the only N.B.A player last year to average 11 ppg., 7 reb. per game and 1 block per game in less than 28 mpg. last year. A backhanded compliment to me because if your coach knows this and doesn't play you more that is telling. But I hope his development continues and he proves worthy of resigning in a backup role.
Mitchell had 10 and 10 last night in 26 minutes. I thought Hinkie was genuinely trying to come away with the player he liked the best in the second round, and there were some pretty positive scouting reports on Kazemi, but then we stashed him in Europe so he could "develop," which doesn't make any sense because there's nothing there to develop, really. So I don't know what the strategy was there, but I can't imagine we deliberately passed on better players in the second round in order to solidify our lottery position. It's not as if Mitchell would have been devastating to our tanking efforts, he's just a raw kid.
You got it all wrong. Kazemi was not stashed to develop. He was stashed so that his contract will start later, when the team will be trying to win. Right now, Kazemi would be of little value to the current Sixers, but potentially on a 3 year minimum deal he could really help the Sixers in the future (remember the Parsons deal).
It's what they said, though; Kazemi needed to go so he could develop in Europe. (Why wasn't the D-League an option here?) And don't we have a number of players who are of little value to the current Sixers? Right now, what value is James Anderson to the Sixers? I guess you could say we need shooters for MCW to learn how to pass to them, but I'm sure Kazemi would also indirectly help other players' development to some degree. I'm probably (and I'm not being sarcastic about this) missing some distinction about CBA rules between the two players, though.
1. What did you expect them to say? We sent him oversees because we want to exploit some CBA inefficiencies?
2. In order to send Kazemi to the D-league you need to sign him. He couldn't have gone to the D-league without a contract from the Sixers. So that wasn't really an option. If Kazemi wanted to play in the D-league, the Sixers would've had to renounce his rights.
3. Anderson is a potential asset. They had a chance to sign him now, of waivers. They won't get the same chance next year. They didn't draft him and they don't hold the rights to him. If they did, they probably could've done the same with him.
It seems like Hinkie is deadset on finding a bunch of hard playing role players to put around his future star. Aldemir, Kazemi, Wroten[defensive specialist?] and lastly Lawal all fit that category. I felt he didn't want talent in the 2nd round but maybe it was more the type of player he wanted.
Out of the players I mentioned McCollum intrigued me the most. A coaches son and strongly built. But Xsago's point about a timeline contract wise makes sense and leaguewide a lot of 2nd rounders are overseas from this draft and the new C.B.A. may make this a more common practice.
The NBA can't get the name of Jrue's new team right; the top story on nba.com right now is entitled "Davis' big game helps Hornets dump Hawks." Jrue had his first good preseason game though.
Do you think Denver will have a better record than New Orleans this year even though they lost Iguodala and George Karl?
and Gallinari isn't expected to come back till the end of November.
Yes. They went 38-3 at home last year. Huge homecourt advantage with the air and the pace they play at. Oddsmakers give them 47 wins and I think that could be a little low.
It's possible. I think Denver will be the biggest disappointment in the league this year.
i don't think Denver will make the playoffs
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20131016__I_m_not_a_loser___Turner_says.html
I beg to differ.
ha thought you'd like that
sixers sign Daniel Orton
and waived Tim Ohlbrecht
At least Orton's a big stiff.
I would have liked us to sign Jason Collins. Would have created a lot of good will towards the team. He's certainly a better player than Orton.
orton probably does suck but hes young and never really got consistent minutes in OKC and ORL
And he probably didn't get minutes due to his performance in practice and his limited playing time as compared to his age...a team like OKC is going to play the players who give them the best opportunity to win.
I'm not so sure OKC always played the players who gave them the best opportunity to win, because they played Perkins a lot at that position, and everyone seems to agree, and every statistic seems to show, that they were better with Collison on the court. They also played Thabeet in significant minutes. That said, I never heard anyone say that the Thunder should play Orton more.
In short, he's the perfect acquisition for your 2013-14 Sixers: a young player of some potential whose former teams didn't have a place for him, a la James Anderson, Tony Wroten, Darius Morris.
And, then, of course, there's the undrafteds who haven't caught on anywhere yet, like Mac Koshwal, Vander Blue, Khalif Wyatt, and Hollis Thompson
I suppose, I just think that he was on teams without 'great' competition for playing time and his lack of playing time would have had more to do with being unimpressive in practice than being young...now if he had been blocked by a kevin durant or lebron james i'd have more hope that it was just youth :)
He was on teamS, multiple teams, without great competition? His rookie season he was playing behind Dwight Howard and Earl Clark, a skilled third-year player. Keep in mind that Orton was virtually a prep to the pros guy; he played a miniscule 500 minutes behind Cousins in his one year of college basketball. His second year he was playing behind a very well-respected, if wildly overrated, center in Perkins, plus-minus king Collison, Ibaka was the center in some lineups, you have a 7'3 shot-blocker in the mix who was picked second in the draft and who OKC still had some hopes of developing, and there was Perry Jones, a raw rookie with enormous upside, to throw a few minutes to as well. I don't really think that the available evidence points one way or the other as to whether he's capable of being a solid backup big. I think it would be easier to make this sort of argument about Anderson, who failed to catch on over three years in a very friendly offensive system to a player with his skills, and lost battles for minutes to Gary Neal, Nando De Colo, an aging Diaw, Danny Green, etc. Nothing was really blocking him from being a successful role player for the Spurs other than his completely failing to become one.
"together we build" should be scrapped for "delving in detritus (just you wait)"
when he was with ORL Dwight was still there so he wasnt going to play over him
Where are you seeing this? Thanks.
https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/status/390336588703490049
also confirmed by amick
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
Hey Sixers, get some shoulders...no ball, no run.
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
Hey Sixers, get some shoulders...no ball, no run.
Any idea if there's a stream for this morning's game (11am tip-off)?
I can't even find audio.
NASCAR interruptus, doctor.
Found a link of firstrow. It is frustrating to have paid for league pass broadband but not have access to the games. Silly NBA pushing people to view by "other avenues."
"Market for attention, string along for dough." Understand your pique.
A recommended Sixers-related read: 10/16/13 mainlinemedianews.com article on Billy Melchionni ["...recalls glory days"] authored by Lou Orlando. Chock-full of interesting tidbits.
Melchionni's son, a marginal Duke scholarship player, is now a powerful NBA agent.
That's Billy's nephew. Agent, Lee, is son of Billy's brother Gary, who had a brief career with Suns in 70s; both father & son played at Duke.
Bob, another brother of his, followed Billy to the Main Line, played for Nova too.
Orangeball be berry berry good to dat bunch.
Spotted the Bobcats an early 12-0 lead then slipped further to 30-10.
2 assists, 12 turnovers. Lookin' good!
Cats & dogs in an extra-large cage. What fun!
Bismacked!
Sources: Allen Iverson will officially announce his NBA retirement at the Sixers' Home opener vs Miami on Oct 30
Wonder how much they paid him to try to get a full house for opening night. I'm guessing $500K.
my first thoughts
Word is it was Iverson's call, not the team's.
I'm skeptical of that word.
Monroe, Drummond, Smith vs. Hawes, _____ & Young: Ali vs. Karl Mildenberger, Bob Gibson vs. Bob Friend, Johnny Unitas vs. 2 minutes, Paul Warfield vs. Joe Scarpati, Jean Beliveau vs. Jean Gauthier; Richard Burton vs. Eddie Fisher, American Bandstand vs. Shindig, Father Time vs. "Cousin It."
Hey Sixers, get some shoulders...no ball, no run.
Sorry about the post three-peat; didn't intend. Little smartphone & big fingers at odds.
THIS IS GOING TO HARDER TO WATCH THEN I THOUGHT.
IS IT APRIL YET!!!
For those who had wondered what five teams to watch on League Pass this year, the Grantland duo of Lowe and Simmons have a rankings system for you to peruse
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9842281/the-grantland-annual-nba-league-pass-rankings
They seem to skip the most logical and practical criteria:
1) Are you a fan of a certain team but live outside of its local TV broadcast area?
2) Do the team's games regularly appear on national TV stations?
If the answer to the first question is "Yes" and/or the answer to the second question is "No" then that team is a logical choice to be among ones picks.
Another factor would be WHEN one is most likely to watch games. If one is most likely to watch games later at night, then picking multiple West Coast teams would seem to be a logical choice. If one is restricted to earlier hours, then picking teams in the Eastern and Central time zones would be indicated. Others might want to scatter their choices across time zones for flexibility.
I don't know why anyone would pick Miami or the Lakers unless they were an out-of-area fan of those teams because those teams frequently are on national TV. My guess is that Houston will now make lots of national appearances given that they have both Howard and Harden and Brooklyn will as well now that they are so loaded. NBA promotion is very superstar oriented.
West Coast teams are also more likely to be on national TV because there are fewer of them to choose from for TNT/ESPN late games.
The only reason I've bought league pass for the last six years is because I'm a Sixers' fan living far from their local TV area. Otherwise I would just settle for an assortment of Timberwolves games; the games appearing on TNT, ESPN, and NBATV; and college games.
I don't think they ignored #1 so much as took it for granted that if you were out of market you'd pick your favorite team, but I believe TK mentioned there's a '5 team' package - so he was asking input on what 5 teams to pick - I thought this might help him (I'm pretty well known as being no fan of Simmons, but Lowe doesn't suck, but I believe most things on Grantland that Simmons writes try to be funny/tongue in cheek, usually failing, so I'd look at the article though that eye)
I actually haven't gotten league pass the past couple years, being on the west coast, it's just not all that easy to watch the sixers games, and I really had no faith they were headed anywhere, I'm actually more interested in seeing them play this year for my own reasons than the past two seasons.
Well, sure, but one doesn't need League Pass to watch the NBA in general. Unless you are a really strong but out-of-area fan of a particular team and/or you want to be able to watch some of the teams that are rarely shown on the national networks, there is really little reason to get it. Between TNT, ESPN, NBATV, and one's regional cable sports station, there should be enough games to satisfy the overwhelming majority of NBA fans.
I agree that the Sixers might be more compelling this season than some seasons past. Everyone going into the season knows that they will be bad, so there are no expectations and low potential for disappointment. So, if a subset of their players manage to emerge or surprise, that alone will bring some enjoyment. Last year was so truly awful because there were significant expectations going into the season but they were slowly, steadily, but relentlessly crushed as the season went on. Had the coach and management decided to chuck the season and start the rebuilding process after the all star break last year, the last couple of months might have been more enjoyable.
I have few expectations about players emerging or surprising (though Thad might take the opportunity to take that next step), I'm interested in seeing how Brown works, hopefully he's a long term hire who knows what he's in for in the first couple seasons, so getting an idea of how he fits the puzzle of the plan is what I would look forward to.
I get what you're saying about the locals and nationals but dear god I get tired of watching the lakers and clippers :)
Warriors would be near the top for me. Iguodala had 4, 7, 14 assists and 5 steals in just 28 minutes today against the Lakers. It's a really great situation for him.
Wiggins getting ripped a little bit, mostly for lack of effort in practice. link
@SpikeEskin
Per source; The Allen Iverson press conference will be held the afternoon of 10/30, not during or at the Sixers game vs the Heat.
Listening to Brown's part 1 (of 2) on TrueHoop TV i'm reminded that if the ownership wants to make a move that says 'we're in this for the long haul' - getting the sixers their own practice facility as opposed to renting one would be an impressive move in my mind.
http://the700level.com/sixers/76ers-propose-practice-facility-at-the-navy-yard/
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2013/06/18/sixers-talking-about-practice-at-the.html
cool - not a big 700 level reader - I hope they let em do it - that kind of investment makes me feel good about ownership - assuming they're going to pay for it and not try to leverage the city to foot the bill :)
4 years 49 million plus contract extension for favors according to woj
That is a lot of money for someone who hasn't actually shown a lot in his few years in the league. I know it's not about the offense with him, but career TS% of .537 for a 6'10 guy is bad. In both of his last two seasons, he's shot .286 on jumpers, total, from any range. And he takes a ton of short baseline/in-the-paint jumpers.
i like his deal better than cousins' deal
Certainly. Less money for a better, if lower-upside, player.
I actually like this deal for Utah. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Favors was viewed as a max contract player this time next year...
Thought of a nice Turner trade possibility. Turner for Greg Monroe? Detroit has Smith on along term deal and there is no way Drummond is being moved. If Turner comes out the gate averaging 18 to 20 maybe Dumars takes the bait.
Yeah, no. There's no shot. Turner could average 22 per game and you wouldn't have a shot.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/parker-dawkins-put-on-show-in-duke-scrimmage-1.6282738
Parker and Hood should both be top 5 picks. (if they come out)
Why would Hood be a top 5 pick? Draft Express has him as the #68 prospect and project him to go late in the second round in 2014.
You'll see. Or maybe we'll all see. Draft Express isn't the end all be all when it comes to evalutaion and scouting. They miss on prospects high or low all the time.
I said 'should be' for a reason, I guess as in if I was doing the picking. Kid is nice and well-suited for the next level. I said on here a while back that he'd end up a top pick after this season is done. Who knows at this point, it's just an opinion.
And not for nothing, but when Coach K comes out and states that he's going to run 'his' offense through Hood and Jabari Parker, as young as both are, that's saying something don't you think? (Sulaimon and Cook are no slouches)
That's ridiculous. I went to Duke and do think our players get a bad rap, but Hood's upside is Martell Webster - a long shooter with merely functional slashing ability. And even if he were a sure bet to be the next Martell Webster, which of course he isn't, there are at least ten players in this draft who a GM could get fired for not taking over the next Martell Webster. And of course Coach K is going to run his offense through a fundamentally sound 6'8 shooter and the second best recruit he's had since Luol left. He loves players like Hood, and Parker is really good. I mean, since when does a freshman/redshirt sophomore have to be a top 5 pick in a stacked draft for Coach K to empower him in his offense? That's a terrible argument. Singler and Paulus played pretty huge roles in their freshman seasons, didn't they?
Went to Duke huh?
Everything becomes clear now.
That's good to see. The only thing I took from that was they he had decent athleticism. He's no Evan Turner.
Maybe 'bad' is a stretch. I should probably say not good.
Kyrie?
Kyrie would be the best, Jabari Parker would be the second best. Huge dropoff from there to third, and I'm not sure who third would be. I guess McRoberts might have been the third best coming out of high school, and, for all I know, might still be the third best post-Luol player Duke has had depending on how Singler develops, though his time at Duke wasn't great at all.
Harkless looking good (in several highlights):
http://www.nba.com/games/20131020/DETORL/gameinfo.html?ls=slt
Coach Brown says publicly he doesn't expect Noel to play at all this year.
But look at it this way, maybe they can have TWO rookie of the year candidates in 2014
I'm not really shocked by that. It might wind up being a good thing for the kid, best not to expose him to this group of extraordinary losers, excluding Thad.
Perhaps MCW isn't an extraordinary loser. This is probably contrary to popular opinion, but maybe Royce isn't either. He's overcome some serious issues to at least stick around on the fringes of NBA basketball, which isn't nothing. That said, if Noel does play or practice with us for any significant amount of time, I would like to sign someone like Jason Collins to impart some good work habits and NBA big man know-how. Kwame isn't exactly a good role model.
If they're going to get a role model for Noel, I'd prefer it was someone who was actually good at basketball. Don't think teaching him how to be a journeyman is a positive thing.
Actually, if you watched the game last night, Thad looked like he fit right in with the rest of the losers. His numbers were distressingly similar to Turner's until he got a few cheap baskets in garbage time after the game was out of reach.
As much as I would have liked to have seen Noel this year, keeping him out for the year fits more with the theme of this being an audition year where winning isn't a goal. Noel is practically guaranteed to be here next year regardless of what happens this year.
Only the Sixers could trade their top player for an injured and inexperienced big man, pay the acquired "stud" 3 million dollars to heal slowly and to mature for 12 months, and plan to have him to work on his foul shooting and overall comprehension of the game for which he is employed in the arrested meantime. Allegedly, Noel and agent were seen at the Registrar's Office this summer applying for course audit status. You might think this organization is being run by a runt wrestler and a pallid intramural basketball player.
I wonder if it's a brilliant move as in they got a franchise center, a future 1st round pick in a good draft, and increased their chances of getting #1 overall pick in the lottery for a guy that might only be a borderline all star his entire career.
Or terrible move as in they are going to end up with 4 draft picks who aren't even as good Jrue Holiday.
Can't judge something like that based on hindsight though...whether it succeeds or fails should have no bearing over whether you think it was the right thing to do - that's now - and crotchety old guys aside - the sixers took a huge risk of course - but to me - not doing anything would continue the mediocrity and Jrue Holiday isn't a 'franchise building block' on a team, he's a good player who I think possibly had his best season (at least from the way people look at it in the media) and his value might never have been higher.
The sixers came away with the player many thought was the best raw talent in the draft who dropped due to injury and some teams being so obsessed with losing in the first round of the playoffs they made baffling decisions and a pretty strong (probably) first round draft pick in what is projected to be one of the best drafts (depth wise) in a long while.
I've yet to see anyone who doesn't have some sort of inherent bias towards mediocrity, or complaining, say the sixes made a bad move cause Noel might miss this season - the only reason he was available at 6 was because of his injury - healthy he wouldn't have been there
True and we can't forget that they got him AND another first rounder in that trade. Although it's unlikely that Noel will have the career of Blake Griffin (either in the NBA or as a commercial spokesperson for Kia), we should also remember that Griffin missed his first year after being the top draft pick (and the Sixers' recently departed coach missed most of his after being the top draft pick).
I'm OK with watching Hawes, Daniel Orton, or whomever else they manage to scrounge up man the position this year.
Oh, one more point about that League Pass discussion: I checked the national TV schedule and the Sixers have ONE (that's right, ONE) appearance on the combined stations of ESPN, TNT, major networks, and NBA TV. That one is an early season contest against the Bulls on NBA TV. So, if one lives outside the Philly broadcast area and wants to see the Sixers for more than one game, League Pass is mandatory. In a way this network banishment is justice. If you're not even going to try to be competitive, you don't deserve to be broadcast to the general public.
I'm not sure where the Blake Griffin comparison came in (I guess cause they are both going to miss their rookie seasons?) but Blakes an 'offensive juggernaut' with mediocre (at best) defense whereas Noel is more likely a defensive anchor with limited offensive game :)
So - if I don't get league pass I'll get 5 sixers games (2 lakers, 2 clippers, and NBA TV), thanks for that update.
Yea dude, I just don't see any way around getting League Pass this year. Was thinking of getting the broad band one, as opposed to getting the full League Pass through my cable provider. Does anybody know if the games are watchable, via AppleTV?
Also, my buddy emailed me this nugget -
http://www.broadstreethoops.com/2013/10/18/rumor-timberwolves-interested-in-evan-turner/
Yes, there is an apple tv app for it, and you can watch the LP broadband games on it.
Your buddy has a good taste in websites.
O that's your site! haha awesome.
I checked out the league pass options, and I know that you can get an option that includes AppleTV. I guess I didn't phrase my question correctly - what I meant was, via AppleTV, how do the games look? Do they look like streaming bullsh*t? Is it even worth watching?
If you have fast cable internet, they stream pretty well. There were some problems with the signal a couple of years ago (on their end, not mine) when the image would get scrambled but there were no problems at all last year.
You can also watch archived games with choice broadband but I think I had to wait until the day after the game last year.
Can't answer your question about Apple TV as I usually hook up my laptop to an extra monitor while I watch it.
I have an apple tv (regret not getting the roku for the amazon option but that's neither here nor there) and have never really had any streaming issues whatsoever except when I use the airplay option from my ipad - for some reason the sound often loses sync - i'm using a wireless internet connection for my apple tv though
I would stress running a wired connection to it if there's any chance you can. Not for bandwidth reasons -- most wifi connections have more bandwidth than your home connection -- but for latency and congestion problems. The broadcast nature of wifi can really lead to unpredictability.
Back to the OP's question, the quality really depends on your setup. On your internet provider, on your internal netowrk, etc. I have had no problems with it in terms of buffering, sync, or quality. I have never tried airplay to my ipad, however.
Derek
I did figure that direct would be better but not so possible with the set up Ihave, we primarily use the apple tv for netflix and most of the time once it starts up it runs fine. the 'big' tv is a sony with the built in stuff
No doubt. I understand that it's not feasible in all setups, just saying that if you really want to guarantee quality, wired is still the way to go.
Thanks for the answers, guys. Sounds like it's going to work just fine. I've seen some pretty junky looking streams before, so I was a bit skeptical.
We all know the Sixers are going to be god awful, and in past seasons, the vast majority of the games were not available in HD through League Pass anyway, so the streaming option, this season, seems about right.
Last year I bought LP through verizon, and used it almost never, streaming the entire time instead. This year I didn't even bother. The broadband more or less works very well, in my experience.
League pass with a good connection is much better then what you see on internet streams- unless you are using true peer to peer streaming which is more involved aand not available for many games.
If Netflix works better for you than League Pass then it could be that Netflix has a good amount of buffering to cover for your network irregularities while league pass does not buffer their live feeds (much.)
Hinkie's flock bleats "brilliant." Unbudging pessimists and crusty spoilsports mutter "terrible." A voice of 76ers experience in its entirety avers "somewhere in between the two extremes, with a genetic predisposition towards terrible."
Prediction: Brett Brown, despite Downeast smarts, work ethic and good intentions, will be worn to a nub and gone by the time Sixers next seriously contend. "In the year 2525, if man is still alive... ."
Note: historically speaking, "franchise centers" have demonstrated the ability to put the ball in the hole; Nerlens is no magician in that regard.
ok.
+1
Baa-aa-aah.
Fascinating.
What about Bill? You know, the famous one who averaged 15 points a game on only 44% shooting. He as was not half bad although Wilt did not think as highly of him as some.
Dikembe Mutombo Mpolondo Mukamba Jean-Jacques Wamutombo is wagging his finger at your comment. I believe he was also drafted sixth overall.
If he was a franchise center, which franchise? Denver, Atlanta, Philadelphia, New Jersey, New York or Houston?
When index finger wag is your pet shot, more gym time required. Outstanding name though.
Centers taken at #6 since 1980:
Nerlens Noel
Sharone Wright
Felton Spencer
Kaman
Big Country Reeves
Mel Turpin
Joe Kleine
William Bedford
Stacey King
Tractor Traylor
Ekpe Udoh
Funny that Noel would be a bust if he ended up the second best center of the 11 drafted at #6. I'd say adjusting expectations for a center picked #6 is in order.
And I was wrong about Deke. He was drafted #4. Basically, if you are a center with a pulse you don't make it to #6 most years.
Ooh, that's a rough list.
Last statement roughly true.
I was going to try and rank those guys, but they are all too rank to know where to start. Funny how Kaman is head and shoulders better than the rest and yet he stinks.
Russ kept defenses honest. Crushed hearts with his killer instinct. He was no Harvey Catchings.
Went such a low fg% for a big? Something common in that era?
Had the keyhole jumper of a praying mantis but found buckets in the darndest times with running and hard work, sometimes called heart and soul (and occasionally glass assistance).
1st & 2nd meetings in '59:
#6 - 22 pts, 36 rbs; #13 - 30 pts, 28 rbs (Celts win)
#6 - 15 pts, 13 rbs; #13 - 45 pts, 35 rbs (Warriors win)
%s generally lower across board in that era as shots were habitually contended; small-clue (or -care) individuals didn't populate the 8 teams; and general conditions, including travel and lodging, weren't nearly as cushy. Also, premium was on team play/winning; individual starring/showcasing (and wild remuneration) in infancy.
%s generally lower across board in that era as shots were habitually contended; small-clue (or -care) individuals didn't populate the 8 teams; and general conditions, including travel and lodging, weren't nearly as cushy. Also, premium was on team play/winning; individual starring/showcasing (and wild remuneration) in infancy.
I would defer to your analysis as I was not alive back then to watch the games, but my perusal of statistics of the time tells me that the overall game pace was much faster, hence shots were being taken much more quickly. Wouldn't that indicate poor shot selection was part of the reason for low shooting percentages as well? I also wonder how good the actual shooting was in those days. [It always amazes me that Bob Cousy shot 37.5% for his career.] And why would less selfish play (which I don't doubt was the case) result in lower shooting percentages?
2 out of town writers, Duane Eddy & Lee Hazlewood, on last night's Sixers performance:
"Take out the papers and the trash, or you don't get no spending cash. If you don't scrub that kitchen floor, you ain't gonna rock and roll no more! Yakety yak. Don't talk back!
Just finish cleaning up your room. Let's see that dust fly with that broom. Get all that garbage out of sight, or you don't go out Friday night! Yakety yak. Don't talk back!"
Perfect moniker for Sixers this year: the Coasters.
Khalif Wyatt and Mac Koshwal waived
Vander Blue and Royce White also released
That means we're keeping a couple of people we weren't expected to keep. Like... maybe Lawal and Thompson?
I thought Thompson played fairly well in preseason. Not surprised that he's still around but I am surprised that Blue isn't.
Although the Sixers cuts yesterday all make "basketball sense" (as the great Ed Stefanski would say), I think the team is less interesting. If you are going to be terrible then at least have some guys who are crazy athletes or just crazy to stir the pot. They did't even keep the hometown guy or the guys with the interesting names... We lost our Dumas and Mad Max and have been left with lazy, doughy boring guys like Lavoy and Kwame. I guess they want to be both bad and boring.
Aren't Lavoy and Kwame on guaranteed deals? I'm just surprised by who they're picking out of the nonguaranteed guys.
White has a guaranteed deal as well.
I understand the logic. The guess with guaranteed contracts can be better used in trades and are getting paid anyway. None of the guys they cut is likely going to develop into much, and are unlikely to get picked up by other teams. Also, they want even keeled guys since they will have to deal with tons of losses. I can't imagine that you want explosive personalities on a terrible team. But I just want something that generates a bit of interest. Some diversion from the actual product.
I thought Vander Blue showed something in a couple of games and had a chance to develop into a player who could provide energy and excitement. I'm very surprised he was cut.
I was disappointed but not surprised Wyatt was cut. But his deep Big Mac 3 will not soon be forgotten. Nice coda.
Keep your head up, Khalif. Good luck at next stop! Blessing in disguise losing ties with this crew.
@WojYahooNBA
Suns sending Gortat, lee, Brown and Marshall to Wiz for Okakor and 2014 1st round pick, source tells Y!
@GoodmanESPN
Phoenix gets Wizards pick in 2014 -- which is protected to No. 12
@MrMichaelLee: Hearing Kendall Marshall, Shannon Brown & Malcolm Lee not expected to stick around in DC
Not expected to stick around as in traded elsewhere or released?
The Suns are proving to be the 76ers stiff competition. Hinkie beware.
released i think
Kendall Marshall on the scrap heap; expected. This GM making all these tank-esque trades isn't the same plankhead that wasted a pick on Kendall is he?
no
suns now have their pick, the wizards (top 12 protected), the t'wolves (top 13 protected) and the pacers(top 14 protected) in the upcoming draft
Wow, the Sixers are getting out-Hinkied.
Sixers-Suns 2018 Finals
The Wolves pick was a steal. They got that for taking Wes Johnson and trading away Robin Lopez. They also have LAL's 2015(top 5 protected) 1st round pick for trading Steve Nash.
So one could possibly safely say that they only end up with their own likely high pick and the Pacers. Unless the Wizards surprise which isn't out of the realm of possibility. I think the Wizards could hang around for that 8th seed.
As Xsago posted at LB:
Wall/Maynor
Beal
Ariza/Webster/Porter
Nene
Gortat/Seraphin
That likely keeps them out of the bottom 12 if they stay reasonably healthy.
I'm not so sure. I watched Detroit beat them pretty soundly last week. Washington looked like a lottery team to me, at least in comparison to Detroit.
Another good trade by the Suns new GM...
This might work for the Wizards as well...
moves nene back to the 4 where he can take all the faceup jumpers he wants
Hearing rumblings the Sixers are interested in recently released PG Lorenzo Brown from the Timberwolves. Anyone else hearing this? Not sure how reliable on this end.
3 years 36 million for bogut with incentives potentially taking it higher
That's a crazy amount of money for a guy that only played 32 games and averaged less than 25 minutes last year. Don't know why they were in a rush to sign him. they would have been $10 million under the cap next year.
cause if he stays somewhat healthy he would got alot more
I don't know how much more Bogut would have got if he had stayed healthy all season. Maybe an extra 2 million per year at most.
Yeah, i agree, even if he stays healthy and plays great, it's not like teams will forget about his injury history. He wasn't getting more than 15 million per season no matter what. I really liked him in Milwaukee when he was healthy, but i think this is a major risk for the Warriors that might come back to haunt them.
if bogut plays 60 ish games you dont think he gets something around the deal javale mcgee got?(4 years 44 million)
It's possible (though that McGee deal was terrible). But that's still 1-3 million less than he actually got now. My point is simply that there was no reason to rush this at that price. They could've waited till next season. They couldn't have lost a ton in terms of salary no matter how he played this season. Their only potential problem would've been if he didn't want to stay with them no matter the price. But if that were the case he wouldn't have signed this deal in the first place.
I'm not sure how much more really with his longer 'missed game' history - plus - what are the odds he stays healthy this year? I mean they can't all be fluke injuries right?
Rodney Williams and Gani Lawal cut which puts them at 14 so they could/might sign someone that was recently cut
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20131026_Turner_s_future_with_Sixers_uncertain.html
for what its worth, it seems like he thinks he was misquoted or taken out of context
http://instagram.com/p/f8P8IaTSLI/
Andrew Wiggins not as polished as the hype machine says?
ESPN Insider Link
Surprise surprise. None of the (hardly-viewed-at-all) touted are worth slobbering over, let alone trash a season for, my strong suspicion. Some elite physical specimens, I suppose. Honed basketball players/individuals, nope. '13-'14 Sixers tact: Hinkie's folly. Philadelphia will teach the Stanford smartypants a thing or two.
Yes, you're right, the season hasn't started you and you (and a few others) already know better than the people hired to do the jobs, it's a wonder you don't all have NBA jobs already.
I know folks like you would much rather the sixers continue mired in mediocrity, but the point is not to tread water...the point is to try and build a champion, and you're right Philadelphia will teach Sam Hinkie that no matter how much cap room you clear, free agents won't come play there when they can go to other places, with better weather, fan support, tax benefits, night life, whatever
Philadelphia is no more attractive a free agent destination than Milwaukee or Cleveland or Detroit - to players at least - which is as shame since those three cities combined are a pit
Sport is founded on competition. Without competition, what have you got? Empty exercises. (Empty seats this season will vouch.) Product on floor is the responsibility of GM. Philadelphia's new GM has ceded to next year and a better hand. That's small of him, no matter how grandiose his vision for future seasons. The time is ALWAYS now. Philadelphia, 50 year franchise, and its fans deserve more than the roster Hinkie is serving up. Tickets = garbage for sale.
Philly is in fierce competition with Phoenix. And Boston and LA are are entering the race.
The best way to tank is to be a decent team with one great player who is lost for the season... then get lucky and win the lottery. That is how the Spurs, Heat and Bulls have gotten top picks in recent years.
I'm presuming the LA team you are referring to is the Lakers and as long as they have Nash, Gasol and a Kobe that can play, they're going to win enough to not contend for top 5 worst in the league - they'll probably end up like 10th in the West...the lakers can't make an appearance of tanking.
I was somewhat surprised to read on Philly.com that Royce White likely will join the Sixers D-League team. Maybe they cut him because they new no one else would claim him off of waivers? I had assumed them cutting him meant they were completely cutting ties with him.
Good point. I liked Vander Blue but am happy H.Thompson made the team. He rebounds well and hopefully his shot gets more consistant. His length and the school he is from [good coaching] both give me hope he could be a Danny Green type story a year or so from now.
20 TOs in 90-some minutes. Takes some doing, most of it bad. 30-some % from field, 40-some % from line. 1 game ejection. 1 missed trans-Atlantic flight. 1 solo bus trip to Cleveland. Girlfriend abuse accusation. Overweight. What a fine prospect. Shrewd pick-up by mastermind Sam.
"Calling Dr. Fish. Calling Dr. Fish."
At the time he was acquired from Houston, Royce White was "the other guy" in the transaction.
They received the rights to Furkan Aldemire, a decent Euro big who will likely come stateside in a year or two (when the team is hopefully more ready to compete.) At that point they can sign him to a cap friendly rookie contract.
They got White for nothing. His salary is being paid by Houston and he is an expiring contract. Houston needed to clear the cap space in order to get Dwight Howard, so that is how the Sixers got him at the rights to Furkan for nothing. They gave White a chance to see if he was worth having a round, and it appears he is not.
So you can't really criticize Hinkie for acquiring White, but you can for being part of the Houston front office that wasted a first rounder on him 2 years ago.
Good briefing, doc. I had known Rockets were picking up tab on White. Still, he was expensive at 'nothing'...Sixers should have been paid a sum for occupying him for two months.
Furkie Aldemire, huh. Can't wait. Do you think he'll be as good as Uwe Blab?
Mr. Aldemir, from what I have read about him, seems to have the shoulders you requested earlier for our front line in a turkish R.Evans kind of way.
Two questions; What benefits our rebuild more, keeping Kwame and his expiring to possibly be part of a deal or buying him out to audition a young player. Boston seems to have located an interesting one in Favarani, sorry if I mispelled his name.
What would you be willing to offer G.Monroe per year if he goes on the market next summer. I watched him recently and he seems to have the total package offensively from 15 ft. and in and could really be helped by Noels' mobility next to him.
Just what they need - the broad back of Sabonis combined with the feisty spirit of Uncle Tonoose! Hope he's not the second coming of Radmonovic or Milicic or, heavens to Murgatroid, Christian Welp or Efthimios Rentzias. Ol' Tom Meschery of China, Wilt's teammate on Warriors, was one of gutsiest international players (his battles against Rudy Larusso were not to be missed).
1st Q: I don't know. The cold water splash to onlooking others of dumping Brown and eating his Collins-gifted salary is hard to gauge for its effect, especially with this 'I got mine' generation. Might move the needle. Might not. The presence of a non-producer would seem to be a drag on progress, but the Hinkie Fold is in. Kwame's perfect roster material actually..."The Blase Behomoth."
2nd Q: I don't know. Like what I've seen of Monroe during Sixers contests; appears solid, hits the Willis Reed J. There's nothing like a big man vice-gripping a ball, pivoting, and throwing an outlet pass to a squirt who knows what to do with it. If Monroe checks out in a closer, broader inspection (What's he do against better teams? Will big weight weigh on him? What's he like as a locker room influence/personality?), the going rate for an emerging big man would be fair. What's that currently? 4 yrs for 90 million? (smile)
My Q to you: Why would Pistons make him available in an industry with a lack of legit big men? Drummond isn't enough. The combination of the two (along with Smith) - frontline depth - is what makes the Pistons intriguing. Is it budgetary squeeze/cap concerns? I'd keep him in Motown if possible. Or, check that, Mo's-town!!
Everything I've read seems to lead to the Pistons liking Drummond's upside to Monroes'. If this Josh Smith at the 3 experiment fails and Monroe wants max money it could get interesting.
We are going to need scoring eventually but if Hinkie sees Monroe as a 10 to 12 million guy he probably wouldn't overspend.
You were right on Col. Sanders' climb. Maj. Monroe's campaign will be worth watching.
I would offer Monroe the max. Detroit will match and trade him if they don't think he's a fit.
I was hoping Favors would hit the open market and i would've offered him the max. Monroe? Not sure but i guess he could be worth the max as well. The 2nd contract max is not as dangerous as the 3rd contract max.
I have not really watched Favors play that much. I guess his per minute numbers are somewhat promising, but is he really worth committing that much= especially given where this team is at?
I think he will have a step forward this year and be worth the 2nd contract max or at least be very close to it. I felt like Utah got a steal with that contract.
I also think he would fit greatly with what Hinkie tries to build here. He's still very young (only older than MCW) and his skillset fits well with the new approach to the game under Hinkie/Brown. Bottom line, I am of the opinion that you can build a contender with Favors manning the middle and he won't hurt the teams short term tanking goals so that the team can acquire another young player with star potential to provide help on the offensive end.
*only 3 months older than MCW
Kindly target your frustration at the source:
http://www.libertyballers.com/2013/7/10/4512038/royce-white-trade-buyout-free-agency-sixers
As I said, it was reported at the time of the trade that the Sixers were planning on cutting White and the trade was about getting Furkan for free. I don't know anything about Furkan besides his draftexpress proile and that he was drafted late in the second round but has supposedly raised some eyes in Europe with his physical play.
Maybe that report was wrong. Maybe Furkan will end up never amounting to anything. Who knows. I labeled Furkan "a decent Euro big", meaning that he has had some success in Europe.
Since when did a team blog become a reliable source? Particularly when said blog "previously heard from a source" not even worth naming. Rumormonger-ing is more like it.
FWIW That article site Dei Lynum as saying the team was unlikely to keep White. But when LB is actually reporting news they tend to be reliable. they are credentialed by the team and have decent contacts- as does Derek Bodner, formerly of LB, no of his Broadstreethoops.
It seems like the team, the beat writers and the main bloggers are all on pretty good terms currently.
Per LB: http://www.libertyballers.com/2013/10/27/5036410/source-sixers-sign-former-byu-forward-brandon-davies
This has yet to be reported or confirmed elsewhere. So I guess we get a way to test your assertion regarding LB's reliability.
Reported on Philly.com this morning. Had 'em by over 12 hours.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/Sixers-sign-Brandon-Davies.html
LOL what.
We broke the Sixers buying the Utah Flash 6 months before anybody else had it.
We break news all the time.
Watch a lot of Turkish basketball do you? Seems to me that country has sent a few pretty fair big men over here.
Omer Asik, Ersan Ilyasova, and Enes Kanter.
Asik, Kanter and ilyasova
You must be a real hit at parties
I just listed something we had months in advance. That was partly my legwork that broke that deal.
I broke the hiring of Aaron Barzilai before anybody had it. In fact, I met Aaron over the summer and he remembered me as the one who broke the news.
http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/11/2/3590406/sixers-reportedly-to-hire-aaron-barzilai-as-director-of-analytics
Joke material? I'm willing to compare the work I've done covering the Sixers over the last 3 years to yours. I was recently told by someone at ESPN who I have a tremendous amount of respect for that I was the best writer covering the Sixers. I value his opinion on what I do more than I value yours.
Derek
in her defense, ASIDE from you - LB is a little more humor oriented...and not usually really good humor but the seth mcfarland i am a grown up but still a stunted juvenile type too
To be fair the Sixers have been somewhat of a joke these past 2 years. Last year our supposed franchise center suffered a set back in his rehab because he got injured while bowling. As far as the comedy it's hit or miss. Sometimes I think they try to hard.
If you consider the second round playoff lost a 'joke' than they've been a joke for over a decade
You want a cookie or something? Sundae with a cherry on top...
Nope. If I were looking for a cookie, I wouldn't be bringing something up that happened a month ago. It was brought up because my own relevance was brought into question.
I respect the work that you, Brian and even the more comedically focussed writers and bloggers put into covering the team. Having written a few blog posts, I know how time intensive it it, and it makes following them more interesting- especially given the weak product that has been put on the floor for much of the past decade.
I agree and I actually enjoy the comedic writing a lot too. Whats much worse in my opinion is when theres no variety at all and all i can find is 10 reports on the same topic. I personally dont care to read 10 opinions on a new signing... Unless its being discussed in the comments (which is different).
What i do like is when i can go to various blogs and find lots of articles that are different. For example, i remember one point at which philadunkia had some strange articles about elton brands latest shoe deals and other strange news i didnt see at other blogs. This site and LB were covering most major stories, whereas this site was more mathematical and unique but libertyballers would discuss the general facts in more depth. In any case i really liked that variety and appreciate all the different types of articles to choose from. a funny unique article is much more interesting to me than reading another long essay on some guy that every blogger has written about.
In an alternative history...
Had Hinkie been here prior to last year:
1. Do you think he would have made the Bynum trade?
2. If no Bynum, do you think he could have out-bid Houston for Harden- and what would the trade have been?
3. What would the Sixers future looked like now if they did get Harden?
I'll put my hypotheticals below.
The Harden trade was:
Kevin Martin
Jeremy Lamb
two first-round picks and a second-round pick
for:
Harden
Cole Aldrich
Daequan Cook
Lazar Hayward
I imagine the Sixers offering something along the lines of:
Iguodala
#1
some combination of ET/Harkless/Vuce/Lavoy
The Thunder would probably demand:
Iggy/Thad/Vuce and a #1, but I'm not sure how the salaries could have matched.
If the Sxiers could have somehow kept Thad, then they would have had a core last year of:
Jrue(22)
Harden(23)
Thad(24)
(Lou(26))
I would have resigned Lou(26) to a decent 4 year deal as a 6th man (5M/yr).
So capwise that would be about 38-45M for those 4 players, and they would have been about 10M under the cap after amnestying Brand.
I guess that team works if you can somehow attract a big name center. You would have a 4 year window to add the center a a 3pt shooting SF (?Korver.)
I think Houston was in love with the idea of getting a guaranteed lottery pick and having that pick replace James Harden on a cheap contract. Kevin Martin was just a one year gap. OKC probably wouldn't like the idea of paying Iguodala 15 million.
I wonder if Jrue would have been a better trade piece for Harden. Keep Iguodala and have him lure in Dwight Howard. He was one of the guys Howard said he wanted to team up with.
James Harden (13.7)
Andre Iguodala (12)
Thaddeus Young (9.2)
Nikola Vucevic (1.2)
Dwight Howard (20.5)
Young would then become trade bait preferably for a stretch 4 like Anderson or Ilyasova.
This might not have worked since Iguodala was probably determined on leaving Philadelphia after his contract(I don't blame him)
Lou rejected a bigger contract from the Sixers IIRC. He wanted to leave for his hometown Atlanta.
Source? I assumed Lou opted out thinking he would get a contract in the $7-8 million per year range and settled for the best contract he could get on the market. I assumed it was the Sixers who decided to part ways with him because of the pending Bynum deal and to let Turner develop.
It was a long time ago but it was reported by someone in the Philly media. The Sixers offered something like 3 or 4 years at 6 million per year, but he went to the Hawks on a 4 year, 5 millions per year deal. He simply wanted to go home i guess.
Not sure the trades would've worked the way we would've wanted them to, but i'm pretty sure, he would've had plenty of assets to work with: Jrue, Iguodala, Thad, Harkless, Vucevic, Turner, Hawes and now MCW. Considering how much he values athletic wings with potential and lack of shooting ability as well as dominant rebounding bigs, i'd say Vucevic and Harkless would've had a good chance to be keepers. He probably could've get a first rounder for Iguodala so assuming the other stuff went down as they did in reality the sixers would've had: Noel, MCW, Vucevic, Harkless, Thad, three 2014 first rounders and Turner and Hawes.
*gotten not get.
Lol.
The guy thinks Iguodala is a hall of famer. He has a (minimal) grasp of statistics and very little else going for him.
But, considering a few posts ago you called me a "clown" putting out "joke material", I'm not sure I care too much who you prefer to read. Have fun on the internet.
See, now lara has exposed 'herself' and her 'true' identity - Steven Toll is back - and a cross dresser
any guesses which will be higher, the final margin of Heat victory tomorrow or the number of games into the season before Brian posts a new thread?
Funniest thing about this whole offseason: The Sixers have gotten more press this year when they are tanking than in the past 5 years combined when they were not tanking.
How many times has a 23 year old all star on a cap friendly deal been traded away for draft picks? Especially when that player has not reportedly demanded a trade? It's odd and a very blatant attempt at tanking.
Or it's a recognition of the direction your franchise is headed and that your 'all star' will never have more value as he does today and maximizing it so you are better positioned to build towards the future (and grab the presumptive #1 pick in the draft if he hadn't been injured at #6)
There's a difference between rebuilding and taking, it requires finesse and nuance, something lacking at ESPN (save for Kevin Pelton it seems)...
The worst place to be in the NBA is the middle
Vegas puts the sixers O/U win total at 16.5
Best bet... Take all the other bad teams on the under. Their managers will be looking for ways to lose to catch up to the sixers, and there ou is set higher. Except then all your money is locked up and wasted the entire season, so actually just bet against those teams all season long.. Never too much on 1 game. :)
Just to be clear, i should have said "perhaps the best bet". This was just an idea came up with mostly on the spot, and if mid-tier teams try to tank too that could have an opposite effect. the sixers are the only team that seems to have a clear plan right now. i havnt seen hardly anything about other teams making moves to get worse, but i fully expect that picture to become more clear as time goes on.
Just to be clear, i should have said "perhaps the best bet". This was just an idea came up with mostly on the spot, and if mid-tier teams try to tank too that could have an opposite effect. the sixers are the only team that seems to have a clear plan right now. i havnt seen hardly anything about other teams making moves to get worse, but i fully expect that picture to become more clear as time goes on.
I put the O/U of total words written about the Philadelphia 76ers by Brian Ward, between now and the time he is arrested for his plot to murder Evan Turner, at 17.5. Who wants some of that action?!
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24156987/anonymous-nba-general-manager-admits-plan-to-tank
Got to be Phoenix. Charlotte signed Al. Kings re-upped Cousins. Not sure about the Jazz or Magic.
I think it's Boston actually. I have a hard time believing anyone in the media even knows Phoenix' GM yet. And Ainge is someone who could afford to say these things and not get fired.
def Ainge
IIRC Boston has openly tanked in the past by holding out healthy players (?Pierce) late in the season before the Oden-Durant-Horford draft. It was the year before they traded for KG and Ray Allan. Ironically, their failed tanking (they were leapfrogged in the lottery by Seattle and Portland) led to an about course that turned out to be brilliant.
That same season the Sixers were in perfect position to "tank" when they had the worst record in basketball at the time of the AI trade. They elected to try an eke out as many wins as possible and used a late season run to drop to the #12 pick (Thad.)
"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different."
-- Ryan Gomes.
That's what happens when the head coach is worried about his job security and the GM doesn't give a fuck about the team because he already lost his job.
In fairness to Mo, that run probably saved his job for 1.75 additional seasons.
The KG and Allen trades were the same year as the Oden-Durant draft, 2007. Boston drafted Jeff Green and traded him for Allen, then won the '08 title.
I thought it was Hinkie talking until I read "Look at the Sixers." It fit them to a T. Never thought of Ainge, the Tankmaster. Had to be him. The Celtics tanked in '96 - '97, too, to get Duncan. M. L. Carr admitted it recently. And in retrospect, the '78 trade of the entire team to the Clippers looks like a tank job for Larry Bird. Who knows? (One of the 2 franchise swaps I can think of, the other being the Colts for the Rams by Carroll Rosenbloom, but that didn't involve trading rosters, as the Celtics-Clippers deal did.)
I guess this is the end of DP, at least for this year. It's opening night and no post. I'll check in next year. Everybody will be all psyched up about the new Noel-Jabari Parker-Mitch McGary frontcourt.
Oh we're going to miss you - oh wait - no we're not - praising the worst sixers blogger in existence proves you are said blogger.
You didn't hear? He's relevant. I mean, his "OWN RELEVANCE was questioned". How dare anyone....
Oh, and I guess you missed the part about some schmuck at espn thinks HE'S the best Sixers writer.
(fortunate he is, that Brian isn't writing anymore.
Or if you missed those two- this relevant guy was remembered by one Aaron Barzilai as the hiring's news breaker. Aaron Barzilai!!
You better ask somebody..............
There is no writer in the business I respect more than Zach Lowe.
"Maalik sucks and from the moment he was acquired (and through the Bynum trade), Steve Toll, made it clear that Dorell Wright was the 76ers best offseason acquisition."
The context of that was that Maalik's preseason earned him the chance to get NBA minutes. Prior to that, I had said he wasn't an NBA player. I said that at the time of the draft and up through the preseason that Wayns wasn't an NBA player. So if you're saying that I was a proponent of Wayns, you have that wrong. I was simply saying that with his preseason play he deserved a chance.
As for Wright, again, I was always a huge fan of Wright. Wanted him starting from day one. Again, in context that quote about Wright was saying that he wasn't getting enough publicity and was being overshadowed by other offseason acquisitions (namely Andrew Bynum), not that I didn't like Wright beforehand.
"Steve Toll said Evan a Turner is awful, his rebounding is incredibly overrated (borderline useless), his defense is not good and that won't change."
Steve and I said the same thing about Turner. The quote you used from me was putting down Turner, so I'm not sure what your point was. The only thing Toll and I disagreed on there was the value of his rebounding.
"Here was your thoughts on Bynum playing 70 games: If Bynum plays 70 games, I say 49-33."
Did Bynum play 70 games? You understand what "if" means, right?
Here's the thing, and it's something I learned very early on scouting. You're going to be wrong. I'm okay being wrong. So if your "proof" is that I thought Maalik Wayns preseason play earned him the chance to play in the NBA, whereas before I thought he wasn't an NBA player, okay.
Any time you wright about the NBA, you're going to be right at times and you're going to be wrong at times. I could bring up numerous predictions (draft and Sixers) I've made that have been right and numerous times I've made predictions that have been wrong. Your couple of weak examples here aren't exactly proof of anything.
You're free to like whomever you like. But if you're going to call me a clown, that's where I take issue.
Yup, you're definitely Toll. Nice handle.
LB is for fans who want to talk about the actual game. DP is for fans who want to talk about the "numbers" of the game.