Typically, Friday's are reserved for pressing questions, but seeing as how the Sixers have a preseason game tonight, I figured we'd combine an abbreviated PQ and our first game thread of the year.
Let's start with the question, because these numbers blew my mind. It's widely believed that Thad Young is at best, a below-average defender. It's also widely believed that Elton Brand is over matched when he's asked to play the five. I'm not really arguing the validity of either of those assumptions, but I just can't get my mind around these stats from last season:
- With Jrue, Turner, Iguodala, Brand and Hawes on the floor together, the Sixers had a defensive efficiency rating of 110.33 in 111 minutes.
- With Jrue, Turner, Iguodala, Brand and Thad on the floor together, the Sixers had a defensive efficiency rating of 93.02 in 88 minutes.
- With Jrue, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand and Hawes on the floor together, the Sixers had a defensive efficiency rating of 102.39 in 777 minutes.
- With Jrue, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand and Thad on the floor together, the Sixers had a defensive efficiency rating of 94.32 in 186 minutes.
Either Thad is much better defensively than people give him credit for, Brand is secretly a top-notch defensive center, or the mere subtraction of Hawes helps this team so much that it doesn't matter how small they go without him. I'm not sure which is the case, but I'm leaning toward the last option. Anyone care to take a shot at explaining these dramatic splits?
Anyway, we've got a game. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to watch, so the game thread is going to be left to those of you can watch. It'll be televised in Philly, if you're watching, keep the rest of us updated.
That was the "old" Hawes...
My favorite preseason story so far - that somehow because he got in shape, his mentality and approach to physicality will somehow change. Last I checked he's always been 7 feet tall (unlike Paul George who grew two inches).
Seriously though, I think it comes down to something along these lines:
Undersized players like Brand at C and Thad at PF can only take so much banging against the opponents starting frontcourt (which plays minutes 1-8, 25-33 and 41-28.) So if you can steal some minutes with Hawes in 16 of those "starters minutes" then you can reap the benefits of Young/Brand down the stretch. But if you started them and they were on the floor at those positions 25+ minutes a game vs starters, then they would wear down.
So the answer is not to make Thad a starting PF or Brand a starting C. They need to upgrade their current center production through a better center.
You're really answering a different question here, though. It's easy to see why a smaller lineup could/would be more effective on the offensive end, and possibly overall because the offense is so much better, but why is the defense so much better? And starters vs. bench for the opponents doesn't even begin to explain the difference w/ JTI on the floor, because they never started together.
The answer is simple. Defense is more about speed, rotations and teamwork than it is size. Especially against 2nd units or tired legs later in games. Hawes is slow and a terrible defender.
Also, better offense means your defense gets to set itself. Bad offense with long jumpers means easier baskets for the other team. Offense and defense are pretty interconnected.
Yeah, that's the GSW theory of defense. Or maybe the Eddie Jordan theory.
I guess the thing I'm trying to figure out here is, if they're simply dominant defensively w/ their small lineup, how good would they be with a plus defensive center and the other four guys?
Which other four guys - just curious - brand or young - do you just pull brand or do you pull young and move brand back to the 4
Sam hasn't signed anywhere - just saying
Or the Scott Brooks OKC strategy.
EJ and GSW just don't coach defense. Put Larryt brown there and those same players would give you somewhat better results. Partly because defesive minded coaches stymie their offenses to where they limit easy opportunities for the opponent. The keep good floor balance on offense and don't take shots early in the clock or without defenders rotating back at all times.
I'm not saying you can be a great defense without size- just that scheme can get you far if you are fully committed on both ends.
Some coaches are not "defensive minded", but there are examples of coaches who stress defense who get decent defensive results from undersized frontcourts.
Larry Brown was all about size. Get good rebounding and defensive minded big men who can't play offense. Dikembe Mutombo, Theo Ratliff, Nazr Mohammed, George Lynch, Matt Geiger, Tyrone Hill, and then later on Ben Wallace, Desagana Diop, and Tyson Chandler.
In college you can have great defenses by being quick and small. Look at VCU under Shaka Smart. But in the NBA, you need great big men. Duncan, Shaq, Wallace, Garnett, and Bynum/Gasol. Those are all of big men to win a championship in the last decade. You need a good defensive front court if you want to win a championship.
Fortunately you can still be a playoff contender without a great, defensive big man. But for the Sixers to take the next step and become a championship contender they will need to get that big man.
In the shot clock era, the Sixers have two championships.
They won those two championships by taking dominant big men away from other teams. First it was Wilt, taken from the Philadelphia Warriors. Then it was Moses Malone, taken from the Houston Rockets.
Maybe our next championship can arrive when we take Dwight Howard from Orlando.
Correction: SAN FRANCISCO Warriors. Wilt was ripped away from 'bounding, also-big buddies Nate Thurmond and Wayne Hightower (Overbrook HS homey) and scrappy Tom Meschery (former Philly Warrior) at '64-'65 midyear. SF net result: 48-win Finals team (lost to Celts 4-1) sinks to 17-win season. Thanks, Mr. Mieuli. [Was short on cash.] Philly forever indebted.
NBA TV does have a game tonight but I think it's the Pistons
I'm gonna go with while Brand and Thad may be better than I think, the big difference is Hawes total suckage and people trying to compensate for his suckage puts em out of position.
Also, I mean, when the team the sixers are playing brings their 'big center' backin - does brand defend him or does doug bring back in the big republican?
Last year, it was 50/50 whether Hawes would come back in after his first run.
For people outside of Philadelphia, Directv looks like it is showing the game tonight. If you have NBA League Pass the game is on chn 752 tonight.
Also, there might be a free preview, (there usually is to start the season) so even if you don't have league pass, check it, you might get it.
Damn, I wonder if it's showing up on cable InDemand as well.
(BTW - I think the free preview is the first two weeks of the season for folks)
I just double checked, it's not on time warner. Though the NBA did try to automatically sign me up for league pass broadband, instead of just getting the broadband companion like I've always had they wanted to charge me twice, which was a pleasant surprise.
When I sign up for stuff like this I make it VERY clear that any auto renew BS should be turned off immediately.
If it's not, I usually raise hell and get a 20 dollar rebate
Hell - one year I got charged twice for the full NBA package they're so incompetent
Can you explain the Nocioni situation to me?? Is he in camp? Is he coming to camp?? Are they going to pay him not to play to save the amnesty for next year?? Is he going to be bought out? What is the point of that?
I believe he is there. The point of buying him out is that you save some of the money you owe him, usually not all that much.
He is in camp. I'd be surprised to see the roster changed at this point.
Saving the Amnesty for when it might be more useful...I expect they want to buy him out but want him to take less money to go.
The only reason to use the Amnesty on him is if they would have used the cleared cap room to do something (or to save luxury tax money which they aren't paying right now)
My dream scenario -
Sixers start off hot...hang around the top of the Atlantic...Iggy gets off to a great start and gets into his first ASG...Sixers finish in the top 4 and win a round (losing to the Bulls or Heat in the EC semis)...Hawes, Noc and Mo Speezy roll off the books...they amnesty Brand next summer and - based on their young talent, new ownership and up-and-coming status, sign Howard to a max deal.
Possible?
Um I suppose anything is possible
Andre Iguodala going to an all star game - highly unlikely in the east no matter how well he plays.
As for Howard coming to Philadelphia, again, possibly, but I think less likely than Iguodala in an ASG
And I think the Magic are going to trade him, they don't have a choice. I don't think their 'moves' this off season will yet convince them. Then again, Dwight is upset Gilbert was waived according to reports.
Maybe if Iguodala scores 20 ppg he can be the 3rd string SF to Melo and Granger.
I guess LeBron doesn't make the team.
lol. For some reason I completely forgot about him.
Iguodala is a "wing." He can play SG or SF. I don't think they focus on quotas for specific positions as much as they add a certain number of guards and bigs.
Wade Allen Pierce
off the top of my head - 3 guys probably all guaranteed to make it over Iguodala unless he's somehow leading the league in scoring
So:
Deron, Rose, Pierce, Wade, Melo and Lebron are locks ahead of Iggy. probably Rondo as well.
So that means he needs a couple of guys to bow out due to injury.
Allen AND Pierce?
In my "dream scenario", the Sixers are surprisingly near/with the Celtics and Knicks at the top of the Atlantic, and Iguodala will be the reason why...which will get the coaches to acknowledge him with his first ASG selection.
I was just picking 'stars' who would get the nod over Iguodala because, well, they're stars, and the fans are dumb
Dwyane Wade
LeBron James
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Danny Granger
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
I hope the SF and SG positions are 8 deep
I don't see grandge or Johnson as absolute locks. Certainly more likely than Iguodala, but not locks.
The 6 players I listed above are locks.
Since when is Danny freaking Granger a lock to be voted on the team by the coaches?
I could see Iguodala get in over the bottom three guys on your list...especially if the Celtics struggle and the Sixers play well.
Cause he scores 26 ppg
Will he score 26 ppg this year, almighty soothsayer?
(especially with West and Hill now getting touches)
If Iggy has a 18/7/7 slash line, playing DPOY level defense for the surprising first-in-the-Atlantic Sixers, is Granger (who only averaged a little over 20 ppg last season, shooting a VERY pedestrian 42.5% from the field) a lock over him?
This is the f'n all star game. Vince Carter was selected one year even though he was injured for most of the season.
He was selected by the fans. What year did Granger get selected by the fans?
Dude - this ain't Paul Pierce...this is DANNY GRANGER.
Maybe because he's really a point guard.
Game Thread... Woohoo!
The Vucevic Era begins!
My guess is that it's about match-ups combined with the fact that Hawes is a)terrible and b)plays few minutes, so the poor match-up that is Hawes vs anybody is minimized.
It will be interesting to see how good Jrue will defend against John Wall, if he will be able to stay in front of quicker point gaurds this year.
The Sixers have never been able to defend John Wall. Nor has the rest of the league for that matter.
If I remember correctly last season we tried putting Turner and Williams on him. But it's going to take a team effort to try and contain him.
Clog the lane, let him take jumpers.
Heh. 4.2 shots from 16-23 feet/game, shot them at 30%.
I completely agree. Brand is and always has been a very good defensive player. He averaged 2 blocks a game almost every year with LA and even had a year where he averaged 3.
His lone weakness on defense comes when playing against dominant 7 footers who can take advantage of his height.
As for Thad, he improved a lot defensively last season. He used to get bullied in the low post but he's become better now. He also has become a better defensive rebounder and is great at anticipating passing lanes.
I will be watching. I dare say this is the most excited I've ever been for a preseason game. 8 months after elimination...finally we're back.
By the way, just from looking at rotations from last year, Collins needs to avoid playing Lou and Meeks together, bad on both ends of the floor.
Another of what seems like a lot of plusses to starting Meeks.
Or maybe playing Lou - a lot less :)
Or trading Lou.
I'm telling people - new orleans NEEDS players to get to 13 - give them Speights and Lou
I'm not giving them Lou for nothing. we at least need to bring back Willie in a sign and trade. Then Sam to a 1 year and the old gang is all here. Raise the roof! (says B. Franklin Dogg)
I don't think we will see a Lou and Meeks play together this year a lot, if at all. Basically they will be given 48 minutes for one of the guard spots on the team IMO and Holiday, Turner and Iguodala will share the other 96. Assuming Iguodala and Holiday play 36-37 minutes, Turner will probably end up playing similar minutes to last year, maybe a few more, but his role should change. Collins did hint on putting Lou at SG and Turner at PG and letting Turner initiate the offense. This is different from last year and a huge part of Turners struggles.
A PG who does not pass and a SG who does not create his own shot. yeah, agree we won't see that combo.
I have the actual number on spreadsheet in the ther room, but I'm pretty sure they played 385 minutes together last year.
Do you guys believe the numbers you are discussing are a big part of the contract Thad got? If the team does well with Thad at p.f. next to a guy only getting 8 rebounds and 1 block a game maybe Thad doesn't need Dwight next to him to start.
I was thinking about Denver's interest in him and a combo of him starting backed up by Faried was an interesting option.
I honestly don't know what, if any advanced stats the sixers FO uses, or if the new owners have changed their thinking at all, but maybe.
Weird start to the game...in Philly they are showing the Comcast Washington broadcast! WTF. I think Zumoff might be coming on in the second half at least.
John Wall made some weird comments about us, his team making the playoffs:
he was asked on 106.7 The Fan in D.C. if the Wizards are a playoff team:
“I think so. Last year, we was ahead of Philly at one point and then they went on a 15-game winning streak. The most winning streak we had was two games and that was near the end of the season."
Longest streak we had was four.
He was either drunk or just incredibly stupid
I'm gonna go with incredibly uneducated for the win
Did he really say was each time?
God
His memory sucks - but 13 of 17 is a pretty good run still
I have nothing against the 'was,' that's just how people from certain areas speak. I assume he said it, it's CBS Sports's transcription.
Way to be racist without being racist Tray
It's how uneducated morons speak, regardless of where they're from...I'm sure he wasn't TAUGHT in school (if he went to class) to speak that way.
Gotta wonder how he passed his classes his first year at UK
Yeah, he's borderline short bus.
Wall turnover to start
followed by sick assist from Jrue to Hawes
Sixers.com has a tv companion for the iPhone that looks pretty cool. Think I'll follow the game there.
Is there an ipad version?
Yeah, it's just an auto-updating play-by-play and box score. Just go to sixers.com
Anyone else getting a Washington feed on CSN here in Philly?
and/or wondering if Brian has gone to break something now that 00 has scored their first points of the season?
First turnover of the preseason as well.
Does the away team usually send their own crew and announcers for a preseason game?
Javale abusing Hawes on the boards on that last possession, followed by nice Jrue cut to the basket/finish
Jrue looks fine to me.
Jrue 2 offensive rebounds on one possession, and a put back. 4 minutes in and he already looks amazing.
Great to see Jrue rocking it again. That offensive board sequence was great.
Ah, the return of the Sissy Hook.
It's a thing of beauty.
Jrue looks good. Ball movement looks crisp. Interior presence non existent.
Continuity baby!
Jrue another SICIK assist to Hawes...if this is a trend, Hawes' stats are gonna look great this year...
Jrue getting in the lane at will.
Holiday is the best player on the floor right now.
By far...
How bad was the foul on the and one? Did he bitvh out and slap at the ball, or give a hard foul?
Late rotation, soft foul.
Very very weak contest. Would you expect anything else?
really weak foul...it was actually barely even a foul
Horrible pass by Hawes but they saved it. PX90!
jrue trying to get fancy on his last 2 possessions, 1 turnover and 1 near turnover.
hawes pretty jumper, then blocks wall. then sixers blow 3 on 1 break
Thad just made a very nice drive and kick to get Jodie and open three. Jodie missed it. Then he screws up a 3 on 1.
Hawes is shooting well though.
Bad pass by Meeks on the 3 on 1 - Singleton swats away the alley oop.
Hawes beautiful move down low...the guy is lighting it up!
spencer with the nice move
Turner in now, Voose checking in!
Voose checking in.
Meeks looks bad.
You cannot stop Spencer Hawes...you can only try to contain him.
Fucking NBA TV is showing Pistons/Cavs. Ugh.
Just saw that. Was really hoping for this game. What a hideous choice.
They promoting the rookies as a reason to watch it - it's just ugly
Thad is forcing some AWFUL shots...he wants to earn that contract right now.
Did Voose and Brackins really check in? Holiday, Iguodala, Brackins, Brand, Voose. That's a giant lineup.
lou will in now - drains a J to start
VOOSE swatting wall!
Get out of the Voose's house Wall!
Wow, Vuc blocks Wall
Turner's missed jumper looked to be the exact same form as last year....although it was a runner in the lane. Not a pure jump shot.
Is it me or does Wall look terrible? I know it's preseason, but...
Hah, on the last play Collins had Thad run at Wall 35 feet from the basket. They didn't even get a shot off before the first quarter.
I think a lot of people are going to look a little shaky early in this season.
That's true. I hate Wall too.
You know, I've yet to watch a single John Wall game in the NBA, because I go to law school in DC and it's blacked out. And I never went to a Wizards game because they're atrocious.
I've never seen a team force more contested jump shots than the team last year. Just a hideous basketball IQ on that whole team.
They don't look to be off to a good start this year.
LOU WILL BABY. Gonna be money from 3 this year, drains a long one to end quarter.
I just imagined Zumoff commentating about him hitting another 3 as the clock ran down. CONTINUITY
Hawes 10 and 7 in 8 or 9 minutes!
Thad really did a good job of aggressively doubling on that play to end the quarter. Watching the world's worst feed.
http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/98164/1/watch-washington-wizards-vs-philadelphia-76ers.html
That link below? Yeah, wow. unwatchable
Voose's d rotations looking pretty good in limited time. Maybe it's just because I'm used to watching Hawes.
Agreed, even though it was only in 2 minutes against the Wizards.
Vuc's jumper on the other hand, not quite as good as Hawes...
brackins for 3
and just hit another one
Brackins with the 3 and the inevitable " 8 more tries since he got the first one tonight" coming
Brackins looks pure!! 2 3s looked great. wow.
And of course Brackins nails two threes.
If I learned one thing tonight, it's that Craig Brackins can shoot the shit out the three in the preseason.
Brackins has the largest head I've ever seen. NBA Jam like. Raining 3s though.
Bigger than James Donaldson's? Maybe you're not old enough...
Yikes...are you guys seeing any difference in Turner's shot? Looks just as flat and ugly to me.
Turner looks terrible!!!
Thabeet disagrees.
Brackins had a decent looking stroke with the catch and shoot. Looked confident taking them.
Turner has that lost look.
Not again. I thought that lost Bambi look would go away in his 2nd year. Oh well, maybe he'll be right by March. He's already forgotten his new J-form?!!??!
I'm guessing that Eddie's Heady's is worst#2pickever
Looks like Charlie V. put on some fat during the lockout. I wonder if it'll make him less lazy, like a bizarro effect.
Jrue's 3 looked pure...looking forward to him taking more of them.
JRUE 4 3!!!
Turner really looks lost. Like he isn't running the plays, that last play was blown because he didn't come up to get the ball from Brand.
Don't get too high or too low about Turner's jumper. One of them was a floater too. I want to see good plays where he cleans the glass and leads a break really strong like that one. Just be involved to start, not passive.
Man the Wizards announcers are *really* excited about Roger Mason Jr coming back. That was the 8th time they've mentioned it.
Jrue looked mighty confident stepping into that one also.
Who was that pass to?
The Turner pass? Supposed to be Jrue, I think.
The Hawes pass was to the Wizards.
yeah the ET one, apprec
Kobe's wife filed for divorce. Raising him on my fantasy cheat sheets now.
I just started watching the feed, 2 turnovers in a row.
Iggy isn't exactly showing much....hardly notice him on the court. Not worried about him at all though.
Yeah, only play I saw of note was where he dribbled to the baseline and drew the big's defender (think it was Voose) and the big didn't roll to the hoop for the dunk.
Made a great steal and pass to Brand for an easy baby J.
Nah, he's letting the other guys show what they can do, sort of a challenge. It's preseason, he shouldn't be exerting himself except in practice.
That Jordan Crawford sure looks like a winner. I am gaining Brian/Blazers-like hatred for the WIzards.
There you go Turner.
still not pretty, catching a lot of back rim on that make, but who cares as long as it goes in I guess, right
Ugh, Iguodala had a step there and instead of turning the corner he took a pull up 20 footer. Hate that shit.
That was such an Andray Blatche shot. And of course Hawes can't box out Rashard fucking Lewis.
Hawes foul trouble - Brand at center now.
EB looks very good.
Thad step-back. Nice.
Hate the shot, like that he made it (if he's capable of making that, he's unguardable).
Good game so far by the guys. Dont know how I'm able to see this game... usually dont get this channel - I'll take it though
EB is looking good on D and O. Those two years off showing, good sign.
Brand is a really good athlete actually, even by NBA standards. Not fast, not a leaper, but he's a man.
Beast when his legs are under him.
How many times have we got to the line this half?
2?
I hope Collins rips someone a new asshole over that dunk they just allowed. Fucking pitiful.
2 times
Iguodala is taking too many jumpers.
Nice work, Thad.
Stop taking those jumpers, Iguodala.
Nice tip save there by Voose - led to Thad's and one.
Dre needs to keep shooting in preseason, particularly if his shot is looking this funky. Just coming off so awkward.
meaning, work out these kinks now and not 10 games in, cause it needs some kind of fine tuning. And i say this not expecting him to be in attack mode this early, no need for that now, but that shot needs reps, soon
Nice give and go, Thad-Voose-Thad.
How Flip Saunders puts up with Blatche, I have no idea.
Seriously, he's like Speights, but worse.
Been waiting a long time to do this again,
Jo-3!
Feels good to get it back.
I'm not asking to sound like a dick, but what is clever about saying Jo-3?
Nothing. It's fun.
open scrimmage at the palestra, sunday 6 pm
that's a fun idea. props to the new owners.
Lakers practice allowed the public in today
Not exactly a revolutionary idea
LOU WILLIAMS AGAIN WITH THE CLOCK TICKING DOWN /zumoff
Lou Will seems unstoppable when he wants to be. He's gonna have an amazing year, all you Lou haters.
God I hope you're right. We need one new weapon to emerge this year. I know Lou isn't new, but he needs to make a jump to be a true weapon. Last year it was just a sometimes thing.
Just going by your comments, I'm really fighting the urge to be way more optimistic about this team than I already am. It's the Wizards after all.
No need to be too high, but a very pleasing half of basketball. Everybody played a good amount of time and they played well, which is what you like to see.
The main difference is that one team shares the ball for open shots and defends, and the other one does neither.
even Turner??? (no pun intended)
He hit a jump shot and had 4 boards and 3 assists in like 9 or 10 minutes, what did he do that was so bad?
I was just asking, not disagreeing - I'm not watching.
He had his struggles, but again, it's one game. He wasn't that bad either.
21-point lead at the half. That's what I like to see.
It's preseason, so take it for what you will, but the Wizards seriously look like a pickup game at the Y compared to the Sixers.
Totally agree, looks like the team I was on yesterday heh
One thing I took from that half it's that the Wizards are going to be a joke. I also really hope that Wall fails. I think he was way over hyped.
For some reason I have an unusual amount of hate for the guy and I have absolutely no idea why. Maybe it's that stupid ass dance.
I really wish we got the #3 pick in that draft, and it was really what I was wishing for on lottery night.
Why?
Favors has way more upside.
Because I didn't want Wall and I knew if we were #2 we were taking Turner. Figured at three we'd take Favors.
I wanted the #2 pick because I thought we needed a SG, and for some reason I thought he would be a 16-20 ppg guy his rookie year.
I thought this lineup would be a top 4 team-
Dalembert
Brand
Iguodala
Turner
Holliday.
You were pretty much saying that at the time. Interesting that you still think Favors is the guy. I really haven't seen him yet. Utah's gonna build around him.
btw is AK47 just out there as a UFA? I hope the Celtics don't get him. (Or maybe I should hope they do.)
last i heard hes in Russia, with the nets and kings interested in him and hes unrestricted
I'd feel so much better right now if we were developing a defensive big like that. I'd feel like this team, as constructed, has a real chance to develop into a contender.
agree
Nodding head.
I was certainly in the Turner camp because of his college career, and I didn't want to pass on Paul Pierce again. It's still way early, but in hindsight it looks like I was wrong.
Except that history indicates hiss first year on any level is pretty bad - i'm not ready to give up on him just yet
and it's not like favors is vastly out playing him so far either
Wall was trying way too hard - I mean Voose picked him off once and swatted him another. Sixers were pretty disciplined against him.
I'm not sure who looks worse, the Wizards, the Pistons or the Cavs. Just some horrible, horrible basketball teams playing right now.
Brian, suggestion. If you make any tweaks to the site again, consider taking away the ” thank you for your comment” pag, and have it direct you back to the most recent comment.
Just an unnecessary step, especially during game threads when everyone is going back and forth and still trying to keep up with the game.
Yeah, there's a reason for that. The system slows down when there are a bunch of comments coming in at once. If the server has to rebuild/reload the page on every comment, it really bogs down. The interim page gives it a chance to do the work and keep the thread up to date.
Understood.
Can fix that with some handy dandy ajax integration probably - the code sounds a bit cludgy if it's slowing down that easily
It's about dependencies. When a comment is submitted, scripts need to rebuild a number of pages (home page, entry page, a couple others, depending).
Understood.
Iguodala is 0-5 for 0 points. Overrated.
Still waiting on the voose's first board as a sixer.
Voose looked pretty good, I must admit. He was solid defensively.
if turner had the opportunity to run point full time, he would be a poor man version of Andre Miller.
Yawn. Tired act already.
Have we seen Speezy at all yet?
sissy hook in full effect
Sissy hook!
I would call Blatche the frontcourt version of Willie Green, but that's an insult to Willie.
Heh. Candy from a baby, Jrue.
The Wiz announcers need to stop talking like their shooting is the only thing making this such a big lead. The Sixers are kicking their ass in every facet.
and didn't this team blow a couple of huge huge late leads to the Wizards last year? Anyone remember how big/how late those were?
Getting sloppy here in the third on the offensive end. Good thing they're shutting WAS out.
Thought Dre was going to hit Jodie on the trail there, ugh.
Turner in for Dre.
and another ugh, cause I wanted us to get Singleton.
Hah, yeah me too. One steal and a dunk does not a player make though.
Who suggested it did?
Jrue is in Eff You mode.
Jrue 4 3!
Jrue three. Love it.
I'll give Spence some credit, he doesn't look as doughy as last year, whatever that's worth.
turner for 3
Turner three. Nice.
If he can hit that corner three, he's a weapon.
Good pick Thad. ugh not a good runout the other way though, turnover
Turner for three. That shot looked loads better. I'm biased, but there was much more arc on the ball.
I expect he's going to be hit or miss on his form while he gets used to it at 'game speed' - as long as it shows up in game time it means it's there - i wouldn't expect him to have it fully there on every shot for a while - i have no idea how long muscle memory takes
wall youre down almost 40, maybe be less fired up
Here's Zumoff on commentary talking about Lou being a scorer especially as the clock runs down. YES!! CONTINUITY!
Voose w/ another 3 seconds call. That's just rookie shit.
Way to get to that spot suddenly Evan, and can it.
Turner nice drive.
That was a fucking sick play by Turner. Skies for the board, goes coast to coast around his back, and a step back J with a ton of arc on it.
!
Blatche is so fucking bad. They should amnesty him.
We're running these guys out of the gym, literally. We're pushing pace easily after boards.
Yes, push and to the line again. Pour it on these scrubs!
Turner can really stuff a box
Did Allen get in and Speights hasn't yet?
They just showed an overhead view of Turner's three going into the break. His guide hand placement makes the shot come out much better.
The Sixers have 8 guys with 5+ shots, Hawes has taken the most w/ 8.
Anybody think Speights will get some run ? Last two min.
If ALlen is in before him, I don't think he will. I think he'll never step on the court as a sixer again in a game, and if they can find someone to take him off their hands they'd give him away
Lavoy Allen is in before Speights
I'm not sure how he'll look, but Anthony Davis will look something in Wiz blue.
My bad. He'll look rail thin, that's what.
Not that you can take anything from this game, but does it look like bigs are actually hedging out on the pick-and-roll? We saw so little of that last year.
Yes. That's my biggest takeaway teamwise.
Talk shit, Wall. You just dunked on a d-leaguer with your team down by 40.
Blatche and Wall beat their chests on consecutive possessions. They're great, aren't they?
very intimidating. beware of the Wiz this season.
Good d Thad
And Doug must want Evan to work on his form, cause he's taken two techs in this game, with Lou on the floor.
Two techs in a preseason game? heh lockouts over for everyone isn't it?
everyone except the Wiz fans lol
The Wiz cut it to 36 after three.
Here's the national perception of a game like this. The Wizards lost, but did you see that awesome John Wall dunk! He's a superstar!
the Vitale Effect
Pitiful.
I would say Voose played Good D on Blatche, but who doesn't? Hawes maybe.
nice pass from voose
Speights is in w/ the guys who don't have a prayer of making the team. Wonder if the Wiz can get this under 30 against the Sixers JV team.
I can't believe we didn't retire Carney's jersey.
Where's Trevor Booker?
i think he is somewhere in Europe
woops, they just said hes hurt
thigh contusion
He's hurt.
Sweet J Lou. He can be so damn big for this particular squad.
As long as when his shot isn't falling he doesn't keep shooting - but he never seems to understand that principle
or defense, or passing
Did anyone see that Kevin Seraphin was the Wiz rep in "Star Watch." He doesn't really play.
Damnit, it's under 30.
I hate to have to watch the Wizards play from time to time just to appreciate the way Singleton applies ball pressure. Man
Pay for synergy sports - it'll save you the pain :)
Jrue looks like he's worth his weight in gold.
Wiz announcers, they aren't making shots because they take crappy ones. That's why.
Man the Voose looks like he has Hawes' shot selection with a Turner type hitch.
Under 20
Who was that pass to?
This unit has been awful. Turner-Meeks-Silas-Speights-Voose. All of them have blame too.
Turner-Meeks-Silas-Speights-Voose
3 of those guys likely won't be part of the regular rotation once games matter
Yeah, and they are showing why.
Jo-3!
That was a deuce, unless you were talking about Money Mase's two triples against him on the other end.
Oh, sorry, thought it was behind the line
Speights sucking wind. Must of been all those salads he was posting on twitter.
20 minutes, zero rebounds for the voose.
He's looked bad. No way around that. Stoned81 can at least brightside for Hawes.
Mo Speezy looks as if he went to Krispy Kreme often during the lockout, no?
I mean, they cook slow too right?
Damn, anyone wanna start the "If we took Singleton isntead of Voose topic?"
Bet it would get contentious.
I don't think it would get all that contentious.
I was sitting on the floor on draft night within ear shot of the green room with the DraftExpress guys bitching about it as it happened.
What a feeling of watching basketball again!
Again, feels good to get it back, instead of that brouhaha. Feels like a typical Friday night.
Sure does feel good. 10 days 'til they count, then we're going to have more games than we know what to do with.
Damn game threads feel good too, to be back, respect to that. They'll be rapid fire this year, whew.
Yeah, they're getting better all the time. effing funny too.
Anyone have an advice for how to break it to my wife that I plan to watch 12 hours of hoops on Christmas day?
Or, what about breaking that the next 3 1/2 months I'd enjoy being able to be occupied by 66 games of this, if you don't mind? It'll only last 2 1/2 hours.
I'm picking my spots - will catch highlights early and follow my fantasy guys on my phone. I'd like to catch a little of the Mavs game and then I LOVE the nightcap once everyone's asleep.
Lie. Tell her you don't feel well, and since youre already going to be bed ridden or stuck to the couch, you may as well be entertained.
"Don't you want me to be happy"
That always works for me (i never actually mean it though), i think i'm lucky, i told her i'm watching basketball all day friday and she said 'as long as you have fun'. She'll maybe watch with me or watch something she wants to watch.
It helps that she's a sports fan (baseball)
So you're actually a fan of the NBA, not just of our fine .500 team? I'm glad to hear that.
Buy her some jewell and chocolates,then pretend you are interessed on what she feels and her points of view in life.. that´s it ! She could tolerate your (our !) freakish love relation with this team and game for some hours on x´mas day..
That only worked a few years for Kobe.
I'd like to order about 15 more games like that. 15 easy wins this season. Too much to ask?
Just have the papers already filled out.
No. Sounds about right. No more fluke buzzer beaters from the Wiz, no more inexplicable losses to the Nets & Charlotte. If they don't play down to the opponent's level like they did last year....
Amazing how not even Gosixers is complaining after a nice solid win!
Blow me
That was great to watch, despite the bench play in the 4th. So happy we are back. Brian - your predicament is better than mine - I have to be with my fiance's family on the night of the 26th. Shoot me now.
Speights -11 tonight in 11 minutes of work
Starters all got around 20 minutes with Jodie pulling a heavier load (33) along with Evan (30)
Just as it should be.
No Nocioni thought? To what do we owe that honor?
Positives about our rookie? Moves quickly on defensive rotations, passes well, and not afraid to set screens. Negative, had a Jason Smith like affect on the game.
Did he grab a rebound? Like were there rebounds he should have gotten but didn't?
Um, shouldn't you accidentally get at least one rebound in 23 minutes if you're 7 feet tall? Actually, shouldn't you accidentally get 3 or 4.
According to E.S.P.N. he had 5.
5 assists, 0 boards.
My mistake, at least he is "ball friendly".
Yep, we need more of that.
Doug Collins is a good'un. He's so cerebral.
Thankfully I'm not a Pistons or a Cavs fan. That would be brutal. I have no idea what their front offices are thinking.
That sometimes you have to be real bad before you can get real good - The cavs didn't prepare for losing Lebron - the pistons over paid folks - and have to work through it.
Pistons have a new owner in place, be interesting to see what sort of owner he'll be.
How can you say that? Joe Dumars is a genius! He assembled the 2004 team!
what a dolt.
While the Wizards looked horrendous, the Sixers gave you all you could ask for in their first game.
I think Jrue is our best player. He's making things happen on offense. I think 90% of Hawes' point were due to a beautiful Holiday assist.
I think Lou is our best scorer. He made some unreal shots tonight.
Hawes looked improved in rebounding the ball and looked more comfortable on offense.
Iguodala looked as bad as one could look, although he had some nice passes.
Meeks and Turner both looked OK. Meeks missed some makeable shots. Turner had 5 turnovers.
Brand and Young both looked as good as usual.
I actually thought Vucevic played OK. He was getting some tips which led to offensive rebounds and he passed the ball nicely and had some nice defensive plays. Obviously he needs to do better offensively and defensively he gave up too many offensive rebounds.
And lastly, Craig Brackins will be an interesting player for us. He made two 3 pointers, as DC wants him to become a 3 point specialist. He also looked solid on his defensive rotations.
Overall, our DEFENSE is what won us the game. Good rotations and good game plan, sagging off Washington and making them beat us from deep.
For a guy like Iguodala, I believe this compacted pre season is similar to the nfl exhibition game where the starters only get one set :)
No matter how he looks, he's the one I'm least worried about when the games matter
He tends to be a slow starter. I have some concern over that.
I guess we'll see...in order of concerns I don't know if he'll hit the top 5. I would like him to stop taking jump shots, but I've always wanted that :)
What did you think of Vesely? Very interesting defensive player to me, looked good defending Thad and since he and Singleton play that side of the court well maybe Washington would give us one?
I agree with you here. I think Iguodala wanted to ease into this year after last season's injuries. He didn't want to put too much effort into a meaningless preseason game.
It's the guys like Turner, Hawes, and Vucevic who are most important this preseason.
I like the fact that Iguodala played as bad as possible and still had 4 boards 5 assts and 2 steals (in 20 minutes). He's not gonna play all out in a game like this. It would be silly. He's approaching the game like a coach, letting the younger guys show what they can do. That's my take. Probably missed his shots semi-intentionally to see if anybody can O-board on this team.
Heh. That was as bad as I've seen his jumper look, and there was nothing intentional about it.
Looked back at SB Nation's Top Players in 2015:
The guy ranked 53rd had 12 points on 7 shots, 4 boards, 5 assists, 2 TO's.
The guy ranked 11th (who the writers said could legitimately be #1) had 8 points on 12 shots, 0 boards, 3 assists, 6 TO's.
I know it's only one game, but Jrue is still too low in people's minds.
Like I said when some people here were talking about Jrue for Paul, Jrue, for whatever reason, isn't all that well-regarded.
What does a game in 2011 have to do with where people will be in 2015?
Jrue is much farther along in his development as a point guard and as an overall player. He plays older than his age. John Wall plays like a point guard who just turned 21 on a team with no talent. But, to me, there's no question who has the greater talent level, and I think Wall's a fairly safe bet to reach something close to his ceiling.
Agreed. Jrue is about as complete as it gets for a young player. That's been the story on him since high school. Wall should acquire those skills by 2015, plus have the top 10 athleticism Jrue will never have.
There is no doubt that Jrue would be a valuable piece on a championship level team though - most important player on the team.
wow this is really dumb, who says that wall should acquire those skills by 2015? there is a reason that jrue has already acquired them at the same age as him. high basketball iq is a major factor in a good basketball player and wall doesn't seem to have that. not to mention, jrue would never be caught dead celebrating and talking shit after dunking on someone while down 40. this is a clear example of what makes jrue a great player and john wall a great highlight reel.
On the flip side, Jrue does have a liitted ceiling. he won't every be a top 10 NBA player.
Wall has the talent to be a top 10 player some day- but you can't say whether he will harness it or not. there were questions about Rose befoer he exploded last year, but similarly he always had the rare gifts needed to even have that type of ceiling.
Its like talking about baseball prospects. Only some guys are 5 tool prospects, but that in itself only gets you far.
Sorry, lazy posting in terms of typos.
wait why could he not be a top 10 player?
He lacks the raw talent and athleticism of a top 10 player - he'll be very very good because he can maximize his upside, but his upside isn't top 10...which isn't a bad thing...I mean in a league of 400+ players top 10 is only 2.5% of em
see this is where i disagree, sure he might slightly less of an athlete than wall or rose, but hes not far off. and i don't get how that is even relevant to top 10 player in the league. wall will never have the attitude, the iq, or the work ethic that jrue has and that is what makes a great player. wall and russell for instance are too one dimensional relying too much on their raw talent and having no other facets to their game.
It's relevant because athleticism and inherent talent get you as far as you can go even if you maximize your work ethic and iq...Why is it 'bad' if he's not a top 10 player...no one is saying wall is going to be top 10 either, hell from what I've seen a read of him it's less likely that Wall will hit his ceiling than Jrue will, but Wall's ceiling is much higher than Jrues just based on his inherent, let's call it, potential for lack of a better term
so just because he has better potential makes him a better player? it is the ability to reach your top potential that makes a player great thats the point. just because you are an athlete doesn't mean you can play basketball
No, either your intentionally missing the point, which I've spelled out more than once, or you don't get the point. Either way it's irrelevant. The point seems lost on you concerning potential or upside and the limitations.
well i just responded very clearly to your points down below, so it seems that your intentionally missing my points due to lack of response or knowledge
What makes you think that Wall doesn't have the work ethic or attitude? He's not DeMarcus Cousins.
Jrue has above average quickness but he is not explosive. He can get to wherever he wants on the floor, but in the lane has a bit of trouble finishing over average bigs. Guys like Wall, Rose and Westbrook can explode to the rim against all but the best inside defenders (like Dwight.)
You can compensate for this through craftiness and quickness. Nash and Rondo are successful at this (as are Turner and Lou to some extent.) Jrue can improve some in this area, but I don't see his "finishing traits" as something that will develop to a truly elite level.
So the only route for Jrue to be a top 10 player is if he is head and shoulders above other PG's in his BB IQ and control of the game. Sort of what separated Stockton from other guys PG's who can shoot (Price) and what makes Deron better than most. But again, I see Jrue as showing promise in this area, but I don'tr see the signs that he will develop his PG skills to where it separates him from other elite PG's.
Like GoSixers said, this is not a knowck on Jrue. He looks to be really good, just not someone you will be talking about in 20 years. A Ron Jawarski as opposed to a Joe Montana or John Elway.
your making my point. John Elway perfect example, not the best athlete at all but could play the game better than anyone. he knew what it took to win the game and thats what made him great.
You're missing the point if you think John Elway only got by on his smarts
He had the ability to be one of the best quarterbacks ever - innate 'upsisde' if you will - it isn't just about athleticism - you seem to think we're all focused on athleticism - but that's your issue.
Jrue Holiday is going to be a very good Point Guard but he hasn't shown the innate 'upside'(which even when you're young flashes through at times) to be one of the 10 best IN THE LEAGUE
we aren't talking point guards, we're talking 10 best players in the league - i'm not sure why you're offended people think he can't get there.
One of the 10 best can carry a team to victory in the NBA - and even if they haven't hit their upside yet - they'll show flashes of it early in their career.
Jrue Holiday (like Andre Iguodala) is probably going to be a very good point guard - but he's not going to be a buy you bilud your team around (like andre iguodala)
first of all im not offended about anything, im making an argument about why I think he can be a top 10 player in the league.
second of all you say "One of the 10 best can carry a team to victory in the NBA - and even if they haven't hit their upside yet - they'll show flashes of it early in their career."
so your telling me that the fact that the sixers were infinitely better last year than the year before had nothing to do with jrue holiday
third of all you say that he can't beat players like nash and rondo in craftiness and quickness, when last year he clearly made nash look quite silly in the one game they and also outplayed rondo pretty much everytime
you also claim that he won't have a high enough basketball iq as other great point guards but provide no reasoning for why he won't
i'm sorry but jrue holiday is essentially chris paul but 4 inches taller. the guy just turned 21 and has already outplayed pretty much every PG in the league
I think it's pretty unlikely that Jrue will, at any point in his career, be one of the 3 best point guards in the NBA. Let alone top 10 player.
quality argument
It's not an argument at all, but it's much less ridiculous than saying he's Chris Paul with an extra 4 inches. Why don't you go and look at what Chris Paul did in the NBA in his rookie season, at the age of 20?
I think Jrue is undersold. Yes, it's probably unlikely that he'll be a Top 10 player in the NBA, but I don't want to put any limits on what he'll be.
Hell, Steve Nash was the MVP and he was nothing in his career.
Early in his career.
Same with Stockton. He backed up Ricky Green for about 3 years.
Elway not the best athlete? He was a phenomenal athlete, without a doubt the best at his position during his time. Much stronger than Montana (not saying better) and Cunningham - excellent speed, strongest arm in the league with a release almost as quick as Marino. He probably could have been a receiver. Great agility, could avoid the rush with quickness and running ability. After about '95 or so, he wasn't nearly the same of course due to wear & tear. I saw him in his first 2 years and he didn't know how to play but he just looked different from everybody else on the field. I was never the biggest fan, don't think he was as great as most people do because he wasn't all that skilled as a qb - not like Marino or Montana or even Esiason, but he was most definitely an elite athlete.
oh and wall will never be the shooter or defender that jrue is either
Nice win tonight. Good to see the Sixers back in action.
What's the story with Snow? Is he going to be calling/falling asleep at the games with Zumoff again?
From the Washington Post Blog:
Love the reference to Eddie Jordan
"This sad preview tonight speaks volumes about Ernie Grunfeld and Flip Saunders you know neither Grunfeld or Ted Leonsis is going to do anything about the head coaching situation. Eddie Jordan was the last "real coach" this franchise had. The players aren't listening to Saunders or anyone on his staff. John Wall needs a shooting coach and a point guard mentor to teach him the nuances of the position. I hope i'm wrong but this is going to be a long season."
Yeah, it's weird how much they love Eddie over there. I remember the Wizards fans were telling us how fortunate we were to get Jordan in 2009. He did have some success over there, and had a few playoff appearances. The biggest problem was that they had the worst defense in the league almost every year he coached.
Its the only system where a lineup of Blatche, Antwan Jamison, Caron Butler, Larry Hughes, and Gilbert Arenas can be successful. It's amazing that he was able to win 45 games with that lineup
Seems Jeff Greens heart issue is kind of serious. He will have surgery on it and miss the entire season.
Is that like the 3rd or 4th heart surgery on an NBA player in the last month? This is weird, in the past i feel like heart issues appeared once every 5 years, possibly more...
Are there more concussions in the NFL today or is it just that medical technology and understanding has increased?
I'm not sure how many there have been myself, but my guess is that it's the technology and understanding that makes these things more findable than actual occurrences
damn. He should have taken the long term deal
Watching the game on DVR. It seems Meeks brings nothing to the basketball court besides shooting. Below average passer, average ball handling and average defense. He fits better with the first team simply because he doesnt need the ball.
I kept hearing that Hawes was in such good shape coming into camp. He looks exactly the sane to me physically. No muscle definition at all.
Iguodala has not improved his jumpshot one bit since his second year in the league. His mid-range is just as bad as his three point range.
Given Meeks is to be slotted between Iguodala and Jrue, don't you want him to be a pure shooter who does not dominate the ball and gives average defense?
The question should be how good he is at filling that needed role, not whether he develops other skills that are redundant with Iguodala and Jrue on the floor. In fact I'd rather he not even try and create off the dribble or overly demand the ball. Better to leave that to guys who excel at it.
Even thought Turner is not a pure shooter like Meeks he is very aggressive when he looks to score. He doesn't waist time over handling the ball. I don't think it would be a problem if he knows he is being used as a scorer as apposed to a facilitator. That would still allow Iguodala get Jrue and Turner the ball in there sweet spots.
I think he's a smarter, harder working defender than people give him credit for. It was weird seeing him struggle a little with Money Mase last night. Maybe it was just because the game was out of reach.
I think he struggles more when he is not slotted between Jrue and Iguodala. In the 4th it was a broken down game and he had to be a pure individual defender- which is not his strength. But he does a nice job in a team setting, where he can use his speed to rotate to the right spots within the scheme and not get exposed by having to cover guys on an island. Plus, he rarely has to compensate for a teammates blown assignment.
Most telling issue for the Bullets:
They talked about Blatche and Rashard as their "vet leaders." That is like bringing Speights to be a vet presence in the locker-room. I laugh when the players point to Lou as their leader, but I think Lou is probably on a whole other level compared to those guys.
The athleticism thing is a fair thing to point out about Jrue lacking, but the guy is no slouch as an athlete for the PG position. If people don't envision Top 10 for Jrue that's fine, but not too much further down the list.
Once you get past a certain level, athleticism is over rated, especially at the point position. If you look at the best point guards in recent history, Nash, Paul, Deron, Kidd, Payton, Stockton, Magic, Isiah, etc. its not their athleticism that made them great. Jrue is more than athletic enough to be a top point guard.
Right. He's probably one of the strongest in the league, for one thing. Great body for an NBA point guard.
I really enjoyed Jrue's low post defense last year. I remember a few possessions where Gallinari and Andre Miller tried to back him down and he made them look silly. Definitively deceptive strength.
Story on rookie Xavier Silas trying to make the team as an undrafted point guard. He has an interesting backstory (Dr. J is his godfather) and some game.
bit.ly/rDv7zf
Better link for Xavier Silas story:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/silas-trying-to-land-final-spot-on-roster/article_0060e062-66a5-5d94-8d8e-e6ab59f80c97.html
With Meeks in the starting lineup you only have one perimeter player who can create his own shot in Jrue. Iguodala is relying way to much on his jumpshot the last few years and not attacking the rim. Iguodala is not putting any pressure on the defense in the half court. Three of our five best offensive players ( Jrue, Brand, Thad, Evan and Lou) come off the bench. That leaves us kinda outgunned at the beginning or games.
For the record I want Iguodala traded to make way for Turner to flourish.
I remember last year Collins preaching he wanted Iggy taking less jump shots and getting to the free throw line more. I hope Collins addresses this to him right away. Jrue's the man.
If teams don't respect your jump shot they won't let you get in the lane.
His proportion of inside shots has dropped each of the last 2 years. His jumper has stayed the same.
Just looked at schedule for first time - says here that we will be 13-2 going into the Heat game on Jan. 21st. With only losses at Golden State and at Knicks.
Sixers baby! Come run with us!
I'm betting they'll have more than 2 losses by then.
They'll have 2 losses in their first 5 games - minimum
Watching this Rockets-Spurs game. Chase Budinger would be a great addition to the team. Good stroke, quick release, good size, and moves well without the ball. Would be a nice compliment next to JTI.
So you're saying play small with Chase at the four?
No, not necessarily. Filling Meeks role. Either start with Jrue and Igoudala or a shooter off the bench.
Don't know much about the guy, never seen him play, or at least can't remember seeing him, but I thought he had a reputation as a knock down shooter. Looking at the stats from last year now. Didn't particularly shoot the ball well.
damn. jeff green down and out for the celts. http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7362378/jeff-green-boston-celtics-surgery-season
Rubio played pretty well in his first preseason game tonight.
14 on 8 shots for Derrick Williams. They should just dump Beasley right now and put Williams in the starting lineup.
You think he'll shoot 75% from three all season? I kind of thought Turner's getting starting minutes so soon my have hurt him; I think that, unless someone's a clear-cut star, they should probably come off the bench at first.
Didn't you read, Norm Nixon worked with Beasley in the off season, he's a changed man
Adelman is nuts for starting Ridnour ahead of Rubio.
Yeah see I don't think so at all. I think Rubio has some serious flaws and may well end up like Sergio Rodriguez. But even if he wasn't a flawed player, he still isn't such a finished product that you should make him an NBA starting point guard immediately.
Every single player has flaws. Still Rubio is better right now than Ridnour. He is top 3 in court vision and passing already (Nash and Kidd being the other 2) and is a very good defender (an amazingly underrated part of his game). He is not a good shooter yes, but he is no worse than Rondo. I'm not saying he will be a star from the beginning, but on the Wolves there is 0 reason not to start him and give him the keys to the team.
I am excited to see Rubio in the NBA. But I'm not ready to rank his skills against NBA players who have actually done it at that level.
Kevin Love lost 20 lbs. and 6 inches on his waist. Derrick Williams, #2 pick in draft, bolsters frontline. Ricky Rubio, the Wanderer, emerging rock star of Minneapolis, is the kind of guy that passes it all around, will challenge Prince for top billing in area. Wes Johnson should be better with a year under his belt. Michael Beasley is a talent. Rick Adelman is a considerable improvement over Kurt Rambis, Randy Wittman and Dwayne Casey. Young Timberwolves might surprise to some extent in this condensed season. At least there's some excitement for a change. Haven't mattered since highly-interactive stringbean scholar KG left to continue his studies in Boston.
For the first time in forever I will actually be interested in seeing the Wolves play.
Yeah, they are going to be a team i will closely follow as well. My "other" team for the year for sure.
Yeah, I agree and was disappointed they were not playing in Philly this year. It's a ticket I would have paid to see in person.
I watched the Nets and Knicks play yesterday, and, Anthony Morrow would be better (in my mind) than Meeks
I don't think anyone would argue about that. Morrow was/is/probably will ever be better than Meeks. He is also much more expensive and unattainable. Morrow is probably the best pure shooter in the NBA right now after Ray Allen.
Anthony Morrow makes 4 million dollars
Louis williams makes 5.1 million dollars
I don't see that as expensive
In fact it's illustrative of lou being over paid in my opinion
Morrow and Lou aren't comparable, if you ask me. You couldn't really take Morrow and put him Lou's role, or vice versa. Morrow would be a good fit as a starter for the Sixers, I believe, but he can't carry the offense. He's pretty much exactly the same player as Meeks, only a better shooter. He'd be good to sandwich between Jrue/Iguodala or Jrue/Turner, but what Lou does is probably more valuable on the open market, and worth more money.
Well I wasn't really comparing them aside from the money, I really don't think of 4 million dollars each for 2 years as an 'expensive' contract. I'm just comparing the salaries. (And I'd rather have morrow on the roster in his role than lou in his role).
I realize they're different players but I think the 'expensive' and ray allen comparisons were just ludicrous
In terms of pure shooting, I think he's up there with Allen. Obviously, that's not all that goes into it. Korver is probably in their class as well.
As for the money, well he's making about 4x as much as Meeks, so in relation to what they're paying now to fill that role, you should be comparing him to Meeks, not Lou.
Yeah, but Meeks is on his rookie deal, rookies are hardly ever paid what they're worth.
The sixers are probably going to end up giving Meeks a multi year contract after this off season - cause we know how much they love continuity.
I'd rather have them go after Morrow when Williams leaves an Howard doesn't sign in new jersey
That would be fine by me, if it's a choice between paying Meeks $4M/year and paying Morrow $4M/year, I'd go w/ Morrow. If Meeks is like a $2M/year kind of guy, I'm not sure. Those $4M contracts can add up and preclude you from making an impact move.
I'd be more comfortable with Morrow at the 2 over Meeks, I wouldn't be so hard on Collins if it was Morrow over Meeks - I just saw more out of morrow that's all.
Say you get someone better than Meeks next off season but you gotta pay em 10 million over 2 years - that's still in the Iguodala time frame - and I believe that's the plan right now - to play it out with what you have (unless brand suffers a career ending type injury)
God - Bengals Rams as opposed to - i don't know - eagles jet?
Jesus
Eagles Jets is at 4.
I was comparing Morrow with Meeks, not with Lou. Never said that his contract is a problem. I would love to have Morrow instead of Meeks, but i realize it's almost impossible to pull it off. If we have a core in two years when Morrows contract is up i would definitely go for him even for the MLE.
But Meeks on his current contract is a better value.
And he's on a rookie deal, almost all rookies are 'good values' but that's because their contracts are limited - it's the free agent deal that matters.
I'm sure Morrow isn't the only inexpensive (comparably) option over Meeks, just the only one I saw...but what about after this season, when his contract is up - do they pay him long term or find a better option?
Meeks is in lower quartile of league 2 guards. That isn't to say he doesn't serve team. The Wells Fargo Flinger, with banker's hours. 27 mpg is too much though. Doug trusts him to follow the dots.
Anyone going to the Palestra tonight for the open scrimmage? If you are, send me some pics or post them to the Facebook page here.
The Sixers are streaming the open scrimmage tonight right here: http://www.nba.com/sixers/live_stream.html
When do you think they actually play? It says dancers at 5:30, which I can miss.
When do you think they actually play? It says dancers at 5:30, which I can miss.
I wonder why the seats closer to the court are empty? Did they reserve them for people who never showed?
D.Arthur got hurt in practice and may be done for the year. Memphis was already topheavy with guards on their bench. A good destination for Speezy [2nd rounder?].
Meeks's form is so much cleaner than Iguodala's (not exactly news.) Also Voose has a quick heave shot :)
Iguodala- working on his 22 for jumper...
I wish the practice jerseys had names and numbers. Especially for the fringe guys.
I though coach was supposed to be mic'd up?
Thought this was a scrimmage? More like practice it seems. Bet the patrons are entertained.
They will scrimmage eventually.
I could watch stuff like this for days. Pretty neat to see. The sets I saw were trying to get shots for Meeks w/ the 1st team and Lou w/ the 2's. Or some secondary options, but mostly those two for mid-range looks.
Yep, I saw them running those plays, it was the old Willie Green 20-footer play. Makes me sick to my stomach. What a waste.
I'd prefer to call it the Andrew Toney play. And sorry, I love mid-range looks. It's such a neglected aspect of a lot of today's game, especially the younger generations. I'm well aware of your statistical analysis on those looks, but I feel they are such an important part of an offense.
Taking a 20-footer with more than 8 seconds left on the clock is essentially quitting.
Not if it goes in. That's essentially a bucket. Get back and D 'em up.
Yep. The 40% of the time when they drop they look great. Just ignore the other 60% of the time.
Hey, that's better than the 30-something % from behind the arc, right?
Uh, no. 30% behind the arc is 0.9 points. 40% from 20 feet is 0.8 points.
I love when people say mid-range shooting is such a neglected aspect of the game when players actually take a huge volume of mid-range shots these days.
Silas for 3!
oops thought this was still the game thread
And more X.
No longer just Summer League Lou. he is now Scrimmage Lou. Tearing it up (unsurprisingly.) No doubt Lou could average 22+ for a terrible team.
The Warriors?
Only if Monta was off on his moped somewhere.
Mo has to dunk that. Too many donuts.
Krispy Kreme King.
Interesting watching Jrue vs ET. ET tried to take him in the post.
Hawes just lead the break (after his previous power jam.) We are in bizarro scimmage world.
Just checked in, saw ET hit a couple of jumpers. Looking like there's more arc on the ball on those two. How's it looked throughout?
ET did not shoot much. He looked a bit off early but better as the scrimmage went on.
Really, what stood out was not surprising:
1. Lou is unbelievably talented as a one on one offensive player. In this game he also scored efficiently.
2. Young's jumper looked good.
3. Xavier Silas looked like a bigger (better?) Meeks. he really can shoot and seems to have a good feel for the game.
4. Jrue (still) looks like he is raw in that he makes mazing plays but still sometimes gets himself "stuck" after making a move.
5. Iguodala is scary on the break. he is just bigger and faster than everyone else on the floor. It seemed like it only took him 3 strides to get from end to end with the ball.
I hope Silas makes the team. Not that I expect him to do much for us, but I like the undrafted free agent success stories and since it won't be my money paying his check, if you're the Sixers why not fill out a 15 man roster right? We have one true PG on this team, and then 3 guys who can play point if necessary (Lou, Dre, ET). That scares me a little, I would feel better with one more ball handler on the roster in case someone gets hurt. And I don't want them to bring Kevin Ollie back or some other 40 year old veteran.
Wouldn't Silas just be another guy who could maybe play the point in a pinch?
Yes but it's only for insurance purposes in case someone gets hurt and I've heard he is a good defender. We don't really have any shooters off the bench either and it seems like he can shoot a little bit.
Honestly, I don't expect him to play much at all even if they keep him but it's a good story if he can make it.
Nice spin and pass for ET.
The Knicks signed Baron Davis. uh-oh, they have someone to initiate the offense right now. I wonder if TJ Ford will get a job somewhere in the league.
He's injured and their bench is shallow
Brian, I uploaded three pics from the Palestra tonight on your facebook page. They're not the best quality, because they were taken from my cellphone.
Nice. Thanks, Jeff.
Seemed like a great night for the fans. I was really interested in the practice before the scrimmage, I can't get enough of the behind the scenes training, drilling and scheming. Great stuff.
They run some very interesting sets. I was impressed with one of the defensive sets where they play four on four, then five on five. Each time the big has to run to the other side and touch the baseline before getting back on defense, so that if the defender was slow getting back the offense would have an advantage. Speights was obviously the slowest getting back, and missed touching the baseline by about two feet. Pretty funny. Not surprised to see Brackins, Voose, and Allen getting playing time over him.
Jrue Holiday
“@BamUnderrated25: In Chilis & @Jrue_Holiday11 in here..” and @Jmeeks20 @spencerhawes00 @Cbrackins_33 @shadymac1.Say what's up next time bro"
Oh man, now the players? I bet Hawes cleaned up.