I hope everyone was paying attention to Andre Iguodala's play in the Team USA scrimmage on Saturday night. If you missed it, Iguodala scored 17 points on 6 shots. He picked his spots and facilitated on the offensive end, locked down on defense. Here's the fun thing, this type of play isn't a surprise from Iguodala, it's who he is.
When Allen Iverson was traded away from the Sixers, Andre Iguodala was thrust into the role of lead scorer. Prior to the trade, he was an emerging complementary player. Overnight, he was the guy who
had to take the big shots. The guy who
had to score for the team to win. Along with the added responsibility came the extra attention opposing teams paid to him. This manifested itself in a couple of ways, teams assigned their best defender to him, and if that failed, they doubled him. We saw it again and again, especially in the playoffs, for nearly three full seasons.
Along the way, a growing contingent of fans soured on Iguodala as a player. At first, it was the fact that he wasn't the type of guy who would drop thirty points with regularity. Then it became this notion that he couldn't hit a big shot (after he hit two of the biggest this team has seen in the past decade). Then it became his "overinflated ego." Essentially, Iguodala was crucified for saying things like, "I want to take the big shot," and "I think I'm one of the best players in the league." I'm paraphrasing a bit there, but you get the point. The first quote is something any player with a spine is going to say when asked why he took said big shot. The second is a fact.
Lost amid all the anti-Iguodala rhetoric is a simple look at the facts. Yes, the guy has been the Sixers' leading scorer since the day Iverson left, but he has found a way to assume that role without changing the player he is. He's unselfish, always has been. Iguodala's usage rate never rose above 23.8%. He didn't suddenly become a gunner overnight, he maintained efficient scoring, worked hard on both ends of the floor, and continued to set up his teammates. He was almost a reluctant number one option, happy to take a back seat whenever someone else on the team had the hot hand, or a favorable matchup (like when Thad went on that hot streak prior to the playoffs in 2009).
I suppose it's understandable how he's been misunderstood and underappreciated, considering the fact that points-per-game is still as deep as most fans and an abhorrent number of sports writers are willing to look at statistics. If you want to look at it bluntly, the fault doesn't lie with Iguodala, it belongs to the front office. Not because they gave him a healthy contract (a contract that's looking better and better as the Rudy Gay's of the world sign max extentions), but because they've essentially asked him to be something he's not. Put it this way, if the opposing team can afford to double team Andre Iguodala, you simply don't have offensive talent on the floor. If he's your best option in the half-court, you've already lost the battle.
Let's put this in baseball terms, say you've got Wade Boggs, in his prime, on your team and you decide to bat him fourth. He goes about hitting .350, getting on base at an insane clip and playing a solid third base for you, but he
only hits 15 home runs. Eventually, people start complaining that he isn't hitting enough home runs. You need more production out of your cleanup hitter. Is it logical to blame Boggs for his lack of power? Well, it's no less ridiculous to blame Iguodala for not being a "number one."
When I read about the potential conflict having Iguodala and Evan Turner on the floor together is going to cause, I can't help but shake my head. I've seen people, people who I respect actually, say that Iguodala is going to have to put his ego aside if this duo is going to work together. The notion seems to be that Iguodala has this compulsion to be the alpha dog and take all the shots, when even though he was forced into that position, he never accepted it. He never became a gunner. Even last season, when his coach was complaining that he didn't shoot enough, Iguodala attempted 20 or more shots only 8 times all year. If anything, he seems to enjoy setting his teammate up
more than scoring himself. Saturday night's game was a perfect example of Iguodala at his absolute best. Picking his spots on the offensive end, taking his shots when the defense adjusts to someone else, or he has an extremely favorable matchup. Using his dribble to help the guards out against pressure, get the team out on the break or penetrate, setting his teammates up for easy looks. Crashing the boards on both ends of the floor, and taking the toughest defensive matchup, be it a point guard, a wing, or a power forward. As far as shots are concerned, less has always been more for Iguodala, and he's always been fine with that.
When we talk about Iguodala and Turner, the question isn't whether Iguodala will allow Turner to step in and carry the load offensively, it's whether Turner is up to the task. There's one surefire way to judge whether Iguodala and Turner are working as a tandem on the wings, when the second half of the season begins, see who the best perimeter defender on the opposing team is guarding to start the game. If it's still Iguodala, there's a problem. If Iguodala is still getting double teamed, there's a big problem.
People keep saying Iguodala and Turner are similar players. They are, in that they both stuff a stat sheet, but there's also a key difference. Turner is a scorer, or at least he was in college. He was "the man," the guy who took a ton of shots, and was comfortable in that role. Iguodala has never been that guy, and he never will be.
There's an easy way to look at this. For Iguodala to be the best player he can be, he needs Evan Turner to come in here and be the number one option. To be the player other teams have to account for on the offensive end. The guy who will put up points and shots, draw the toughest perimeter defender and possibly the double teams. He needs Turner (or someone else) to be that guy so he can go on being the player he's been since college. Lock down defender who starts the break, picks his spots, sets up his teammates and scores a quiet 18 points on 12 shots night after night. More importantly, if the Sixers are going to escape this death spiral of mediocrity, or worse, they need this dynamic to develop quickly.
Right now, they're looking at the possibility of putting together one of the best perimeter trios in the league, in their primes. It's almost ideal, good size at all three positions, guys who can defend, and defend multiple positions, guys who can all handle the ball, set up teammates, crash the boards. Each one of them capable of triple double on any given night. Unfortunately, it's all going to be for naught if Turner, or someone else, can't step forward as the guy to carry the scoring load in the half court. But if that trio does gel, then filling the other two positions becomes much, much easier. If Turner doesn't become that guy? If he winds up being another complimentary player...well, if that happens, Iguodala's probably going to be the next guy to leave Philly and the search is going to begin anew.
Here's a quick stat I came across researching this post:
Iguodala led the team in scoring 31 times last season, the Sixers were 9-22 (.290) in those games and he averaged 15.23 shots/game. In the other 51 games, the Sixers were 18-31 (.353) and he averaged 12.7 shots/game.
Great post Brian. The defensive possibilities at our 1-2-3 spots are just incredible. A big will come in time if it all works out. Going to be a fun year regardless.
As a huge Andre supporter who constantly has to defend his worth to people who have given up on the Sixers, this almost brought a tear to my eye. Awesome job. He may finally get to shine in the role he was meant for. I think if the Jrue/Turner/Andre trio gels quickly and we play over or around .500 ball then Andre, fresh off some much needed national exposure from team usa, might finally get picked as an all-star.
Also, I think we can expect Andre's 3pt% to go up this year. With Turner and Jrue penetrating and drawing defenders, Andre should get a lot of good looks from downtown(like the ones he went 3/3 on sat night). When Iverson was here he shot 33% his rookie year and improved to 35% the next year. His shot has gotten better in my opinion from that time. The only reason he dipped to around 30% when he was the "man" was because he was forced to take so many bad 3s. I don't see why he can't shoot around 36/37% this year.
I'm wondering if Turner is going to be the guy who throws up the half-court heaves at the ends of quarters. If Iguodala could only cut those out he'd bump is 3pt% by a couple points :)
I assumed he would flourish posting up a lot but Saturday showed he could float on the perimeter, find a gap and be effective in the midrange area. It will be a lot of fun watching both ends of the court this year with 5 guys offensively that can create and put a coaches plan to work properly.
Brian, thanks for the positive article, a good pickup on a monday morning!!!
Great f'n post Brian.
Jrue = Distributor/Pentatraitor
Dre = Super garbage man
Turner = Scorer/all around stat guy
If they can fit comfortably into those 3 rolls at a high level and play D our team will be very good in about 2 years.
Lets hope Turner and Jrue rub off on each other and they hit the gym like rats.
All three of these guys are really hard workers, that's something to hang your hat on.
This was a very good read. At times Iguadala critic, this is what we know Iguadala can do. We are often frustrated that he won't. I understand the FO hasn't put him in the best position to succeed but I also see him do things that are out of his scope of effectiveness. He never had to be the man. Billy King said he would be. The next regime said the same thing. However, I didn't see the fierce competitiveness on the defense end night in/night out that I had ground familiar with in his early years. That was very frustrating. Like why don't you dive for loose balls anymore, why don't you contest layups that you might not be able to block?
I hope and wish Iggy can carry this mindset with him into the season and not feel a sense of superiority over his teammates once the season begins.
Good luck, Doug Collins!
Exhibit A
What? What I say? Did I lie or make something up?
You basically took random shots at Iguodala and seemed to insinuate through your entire post that Iguodala is a problem for this team... that he views himself as better than his teammates and doesn't give enough effort.
I don't think the shots were random. Did I say anything that wasn't true?
Sorry, I've been in meetings all morning. Basically, this was the typical appraisal of Iguodala from a Sixers fan who really doesn't like him, but can't point to anything tangible they don't like. He's pretty good, but (insert some nitpick that isn't quantifiable). He's not a leader, he's not fierce, he doesn't have that killer instinct.
Eventually, it devolves into just making things up. Like "He takes too many pull up threes," or he "doesn't give it his all on the defensive end." I do like the "he doesn't try to block shots, unless he can block them" angle, though. That's creative.
You wrap the whole thing up by wishing Doug Collins luck, as if Iguodala has been such a problem for all the other coaches, Collins is going to have his hands full.
I'm a fan. We nitpick. That's what we do. We point out things we don't like in hopes that if they are changed(to what we want) the team will succeed. I want Iggy to play like he did the other night ALL the time. And I don't think anyone can honestly say they've seen Iggy giving the same effort the last two years as he did his first couple of seasons, they are not being honest. I don't understand the mentality of saving yourself for late in the game when you are most effective, as well as your team, when you are focusing on dominating the defensive which I believe he is capable. I'm not point out things that he can't do. I have a problem with a player when they stop doing things that makes them and their teammates better. Iggy should be an all-defensive team player by now. There is no good reason he's not other than he's not fully committed to defense. Brian, I guess I am following the anti-Iggy formula but its not like I read a pamphlet on it. Sorry, I want him to be better. I want the Sixers to be better and that's all I care about.
Two reasons he hasn't been all NBA defense (1) They've only made a couple brief appearances in the playoffs (2) They play almost no national games each year.
With Collins lobbying for him this season, I'm hoping that's going to change. I've probably missed maybe 4 or 5 games in Iguodala's career and I can honestly say his effort on the defensive end hasn't slipped.
Finally! Someone who appreciates Andre for what he does, instead of slamming him for what he doesn't. Everybody else seems to respect and admire Andre - except Philly writers and fans! If the Sixers are dumb enough to trade him, we will miss him dearly when he is gone. He does so many things so well - reminds me of Scottie Pippen, who would have been great even w/o MJ. BUILD AROUND HIM - that does not mean he has to score, just keep doing what he is doing.
The ironic thing is that he's really a pretty easy guy to build around. His strengths can hide weaknesses in players around him.
Thank you for this post. I'm a huge Iguodala fan. The only thing that bugged me was his willingness to shoot from three point land last season... but I blame the system for that one.
If there's two things that Stefanski can hang his hat on, it is 1) signing Iguodala to a reasonable contract and 2)NOT trading him.
Unfortunately, he could still screw up the second one.
Wait...this was an OPTIMISTIC post...
Am I at www.depressedfan.com?
;-)
Good post.
Iggy is a nice player but he gets paid a lot of money for a defensive stopper. Or a 2nd/3rd banana. No one would hate on him if he was making 8m a year which is about what he is worth. But with 80m over 6 years coming to him. He is getting paid a lot of money. And in this world of salary caps. You have to spend wisely. And 80m for a defensive stopper or a garbage man. Is not a smart move.
Exhibit B
If you want people to stop being snarky with each other, while giving no counter argument, you may want to think about leading by example.
I think he's made his argument, and there was nothing in the prior post that deserved being countered.
Andre Iguodala reminds me of a young Shawn Marion, but with guard type skills. While Iguodala isn't the rebounder that Shawn Marion was in his prime, Iguodala is a far better ball handler and playmaker. Yet like a young Shawn Marion, Iguodala can defend multiple positions on the floor, play off the ball, and has a motor that doesn't stop.
The caveat is that like Shawn Marion, Iguodala too will drop off dramatically when his athleticism fades. Still, for the next 3-4 years, Sixer fans should enjoy the best glue guy in the game...
This is definitely a concern, and it's a reason I think he's going to have to work really hard to develop his post game. The strength should still be there when the athleticism starts to go, so to remain effective on the offensive end, he's going to need to use that strength to create easy opportunities.
Thought provoking article from the Wages of Wins network for anyone interested.
The conclusion essentially says that it appears teams could save themselves some money by not even bothering with late first rounders and just use DLeaguers instead. They save money and may actually get a higher level of production.
Wachovia Center
Philadelphia 76ers, Philadelphia Flyers
Vendors with critical violations: 15%
Inspection report excerpt: Inspectors found evidence of mouse and fruit fly infestations at one bar location.
Do they tell you which bar location?
no, unfortunately.
Philly didn't do as bad as teams in Florida. But the best places ended up being Massachusetts and Canada. Dallas and their 1.5 billion stadium has a 72% violation percentage.
Brian, my main problem with Iguodala for the last few years is what seems like an unwillingness to attack the rim. For a guy that a)is an athletic freak size/strength wise, b)isn't a naturally gifted shooter, he should be working on attacking the rim and getting to the line. I don't like certain aspects he's tried to build into his game...for example, in iso situations he takes step back jumpers when he has a mismatch a majority of the time....
I agree that he should continue working on some post moves, don't see many guys in the league stronger than him at the 3.
Fair criticisms, and I think Collins shares the same views, at least he's said as much.
Really good post, I gotta say Turner has a lot of pressure on him to become the guy who can score. He really needs to have that skill, to score the ball in the half-court set. That will make him and everyone else around him that much more effective. Defensively, the backcourt is going to be good, potentially great. Offensively, Turner only has to score similar to like he did in college, and they have their 1-3 for 6-7 plus years.
Brian makes a great point that he wasn't even a number one scorer in college! He was the 4th leading scorer the year he got drafted. He would let guys like Salim Stoudemire and Channing Frye do their thing, while he would be the garbage guy who defended, ran the floor, and threw down hellacious dunks. He was really raw back then and has evolved his game in many ways, but not to the point where he could handle the scoring load as a #1 option. He does allow for a one-dimensional scorer to play with him though. Hopefully Turner can be more than that, but I would take just the scoring and defense from him.
I do not think it has to be Turner becoming the number 1 I think Jrue could and we would be just fine.
Brian, enjoyed your article. Reminded me of an article I wrote 18 months ago:
http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2009-01-18/Iguodala-and-the-ghost-of-Pippen
Iguodala is developing into a decent facsimile of Pippen. But he has a way to go, and really needs to have top level teammates to best take advantage of his skills. Also, Iguodala has a pouty side that reminds me of Pippen, and needs to be kept in check. A good coach and other leaders could help this.
As for the contract- its typical in that you get better value the first 3 years (10M/11M/12M) as opposed to the last 3 years (13.5M/14.5M/16M.) But over the life of the deal it is pretty fair.
My main issue is that Stefanski locked the team into 185M of deals too soon. Effectively locking an unready team into mediocrity. But that was mostly the Brand deal in a win now attempt to make a splash. The Iguodala deal was never really the crux of the problem, because paying a player in his prime is rarely a problem (you can always trade a young player in their prime.)
Unless the CBA radically alters the financial landscape of the league, I doubt Iguodala will be playing for $16M in that final year of his contract. He's going to opt out.
That's the year they sign Dwight Howard, then sign Iguodala to his extension.
Works for me, as long as they find a way to get a PF some time between now and then. Of course, they'll have to overpay Iguodala at that point, but it's probably worth it for a couple rings before Iguodala hits the wall.
Comcast is willing to overpay to contend- or at least they have in the past. The Sixers consistently ranked top 4-7 payroll during the AI era.
I hope he opts out, but he'll be 29 at that time. I hope he doesn't lose his athleticism by then. He been playing for 6 years and basically plays every game for atleast 40 minutes.
Pippen was a great player. People forget that when Michael Jordan retired the Bulls still won 55 games. In his first season with the Blazers Pippen won 59 games.
Lebron James is the 2nd coming of Scottie Pippen.
I think it's unfair to say that James couldn't win it all with Cleveland. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, and Jordan all played with better teams. Each of these teams would have been in the playoffs if you took away their supertar. You can't say the same about the Cavaliers. I think i's amazing that Lebron has been the number one seed for the past 3 years.
The non-biased perception and optimism are back in a big way on Depressed Fan. Yeaaahhhhhh!!!!!! :D:D:D
Great post Brian.
Non-biased in a sense of trying to see the reality of course :). Brian you are probably the biggest Igoudala fan out there otherwise :).
Great F'in article Brian. Not because its a positive one for the team, but because its the truth. Iguodola is a great player, hes just not a go to number one scorer.
Good to see you get away from the overly negative criticism over the Dalembert trade. At the end of the day that trade is not going to do much for the future of this team. Iggy will.
I think the main reason some people bang on the Dalembert trade is that it was a wasted chance to make the team better. You had a player with different levels of value to different teams and we seemed to jump on the first offer. With our cap numbers being what they are, we have to be careful with the trades we make or we will be stuck in the middle. That being said the trade did not screw the team just gave them less room for error.
I don't think Iguodala is overpaid, but I think the Sixers could have gotten a better deal for him. At that time Iguodala was a RFA and no team had made him a contract offer. Josh Smith only received a 58 million dollar contract. The following off season not many teams had capspace. The Sixers could have forced Iguodala into taking a 60 million dollar deal. Iguodala would have had to wait Two years in order to get the contract he wanted.
Can we finally all agree......We're lucky to have a guy like Igoudala on the sqaud, he does all the little things required to be a winner....anyone who thinks he's overpaid or should go really, really, doesn't know anything about basetball......