If you have the day off, and really you should, you're in for a treat this afternoon. Not only do the Sixers have a game, but it's a game they really should be able to win. Preview and game thread after the jump.
The Minnesota Timberwolves are one of the most troubled franchises in the league. Blessed with two of the top six picks in the NBA draft, they decided to take two point guards, prompting one of them to eschew the NBA altogether and stay overseas while the other is struggling mightily at the pro level. To add insult to injury, the best point on their roster (Ramon Sessions, the third point guard they acquired this summer) hardly sees the floor (21 minutes/game).
The T-Wolves do have some talent, especially up front, but Kevin Love and Al Jefferson aren't exactly what you'd call complementary players at PF and C. Both guys can rebound, Love especially who is already one of the best in the league in his sophomore season, and both can score, especially Jefferson. The problem is they're both slow, and neither can defend worth a lick.
They have zero outside shooting. Love is the only shooter on the team above league average from three (another impressive part of his game, he's shooting it at a 39% clip from deep).
When you look at Minnesota's stats, it's no wonder they have the second-worst record in the league. They play at a break-neck pace (3rd fastest in the league), they can't score the ball (99.9 points scored/100 possessions) and they can't defend either (110.1 points allowed/100 possessions).
Honestly, the T-Wolves are another franchise that should thank their lucky stars the Nets are chasing the record for worst season ever, otherwise more people would realize exactly how terrible they are. An interesting side note for Minnesota. Most likely, they'll have the second-best odds in the league of winning the lottery on draft night. Let's say they do, would they then select John Wall with the number one overall pick? If they did, they will have drafted three point guards in the lottery in two seasons, and committed $17M over four seasons to a fourth. That's quite an achievement.
I have the Sixers winning this one, assuming they stick with the smart rotations and defensive-minded play we've seen since Stefanski's tirade. If Eddie Jordan is left to his own devices, all bets are off.
Key to The Game: Defensive glass. Minnesota is going to miss a ton of shots. Thad especially is going to have to really work to keep Kevin Love off his offensive glass.
If ___________ the Sixers will win: Eddie Jordan does not coach like Eddie Jordan wants to coach.
This is your game thread, up extra early. I think I'm going to be spending the afternoon with the wife and kids, so the thread is all yours. Keep it civil (at least concerning each other. I don't care what you say about Eddie). I'll be watching the game on DVR in the early evening, and I'll check in after. Enjoy your holiday, guys.
My key to the game, Sam & Elton out there together, because if Thad!s jumper isn!t fallin, K.Love WILL make him his bitch.
Love the writeup, as usual. Will try to be here during the game.
If my 76ers continue their normal way of playing, this is a loss. I think EJ is getting his confidence (ie, not playing Jrue the 2nd half) and we will see EJ at his best, Smith getting some play time.
Either way, I do not see this game as cloese. Hopefully another nail in the coffin for EJ comes today.
I'm working, so I guess I'll watch on the DVR this evening too.
Hope Jrue gets more than 15 minutes tonight (I guess I'm hoping for AI's arthritis to keep him out.)
BTW, would Love be EJ's perfect P.O. PF?
"Honestly, the T-Wolves are another franchise that should thank their lucky stars the Nets are chasing the record for worst season ever, otherwise more people would realize exactly how terrible they are."
Yeah, I think if I were them I'd rather have the worst record. On a very random note, who do people think the better player is - Gerald Wallace or Andre Iguodala? Both fairly high-impact defensive players, Wallace currently probably the best rebounder pound for pound (or inch for inch) in the league, pulling down 11.5 a game from the 3, and a more efficient scorer than Andre. An equally rotten shooter but he gets to the basket a whole lot more - 7.4 out of his 12.6 attempts a game are at the rim, compared to just 4.2 out of Andre's 14.5. Takes more freethrows too. Surprisingly, given his reputation as an incredible finisher, he's not as accurate around the rim as Andre, but that's more than made up for by how much more he gets to the basket. Obviously he's not anywhere near the passer Andre is.
Are we factoring injury history in this discussion?
Yeah, you can factor in Gerald's relative brittleness. My point, of course, is the obvious one that Gerald Wallace is a really good player, maybe as good as Iguodala, maybe a little better, but at the same time definitely not someone who's quite good enough to be the leader of a championship team. As the Bobcats will discover as their scrappy squad goes down to first-round defeats the next couple years. (Although, I could see them upsetting Orlando this year if they got that matchup.)
I'm not as big a fan of Wallace as others are and think Iguodala is better defensively (which is often ignored in all these debates about who is better in general)...but as to your point, so? I'm not sure anyone expects Gerald Wallace to carry a team to a championship, it seems uniquely Phialdelphia to not accept how good a player is as opposed at what he isn't
Yes, well, the point is that (a) Brian thinks Andre's good enough to lead us to a championship, although he acknowledges that someone else will need to have primary scoring responsibilities, but (b) a player who's about as good, Gerald Wallace, is clearly not good enough to take his team to a championship, although he's a really good player and may lead them to a first-round upset, like Iguodala almost has a couple times, so (c) can't we all acknowledge that our hopes for Iguodala are irrational and strictly born out of our fanhood? If we were to trade the two guys, I'm sure you'd be seeing some people saying that Wallace is good enough that, if surrounded by scorers and whatever else, he could take us to the promised land. But since he's not a Sixer, we take a more objective view.
My hopes for Iguodala are quite different than most here - i'm quite happy with what he is and realize you need more than just ONE star to win in the NBA today (or did people notice that Kobe didn't get back anywhere until Gasol showed up?)
Andre Iguodala is an amazing 1a/2 player on a championship team - but you NEED Him with a star to win - you won't win a title dumping him and adding a star.
The problem is that the fans in general have unrealistic expectations of iguodala...scottie pippen never won any titles on his own did he?
Well let's say that Iguodala is a great 1a/2 player, I'd say he's more of a 2a/3, but fine; the question then is, where do you get the #1? Probably not in the draft so long as you don't blow things up, and probably not in free agency so long as we still have to pay both Iguodala and Brand. Is there some #1 out there who someone would give us for Thad and Speights? Maybe one day, but the truly great players rarely get traded. I could see Chris Paul being an exception to that rule, but I don't know how good a Paul/Iguodala team would really be. So to me it looks like years will go by before you can even get the #1, at which point Iguodala could be past his prime. Hence the argument for just blowing things up.
Iguodala doing everything right now
Wow this is a turd of a matchup. There isn't one person on the TWolves I am remotely interested in seeing besides Love and it is more because of his eclectic mix of skill/abilities.
wolves are shooting 4-17
Get on the boards better sixers - that's my only complaint so far
Free league pass this week
http://www.nba.com/lpfreetrial/
I think my prediction is wrong, again. If every team played like this team, EJ would be the coach of the year. Too bad for Eddie, this is the exception.
On another point, these refs are very inconsistent.
They're playing the t'wolves - don't read too much into it :)
Dear Rodney
Pass the damn ball
Early 3rd quarter suckage - awesome
Yep, awesome defense too!
Awesome coaching, brings in Willie Green and no Jrue! Yep, need to laeave AI on the floor!
When you think defense you don't think Willie Green?
One coach made adjustments at half, the other did not.
Good stuff taking out Sammy and adding Willie when defense is weak in 3rd.
If Jrue is not in the 4th Quarter, Ed Stefanski should take a good, hard look at his job security. If he didn't tell Eddie Jordan that it is unacceptable to not play someone who is plus seven and would be exactly who we need (Iverson/Lou getting torched on D), he is not properly doing his job. This is the same exact situation as the other night.
Willie and AI to start the 4th. If Jrue doesn't play, I will lose all hope in this organization.
Fine, Willie's shooting well, I get it. Then don't play Iverson with him and let Jrue set him up like in the 1st half. 8 mins. left and I don't really care if it's a win or loss (obviously want a win), I just want to see Jrue.
you still had hope for the organization?
Win or lose, Eddie Jordan should be fired after this.
good thad in for D.?
OK now what do you bet he leaves AI3 in on this next Defensive possesion.
30ft. fade away anyone?
ok just inside 30. Close
I am so fed up w/ this coach. Just checked my invitation as a Season Ticket Holder to an event at the FI, it states:
join some players, coaches and GM Ed S. No mention of coach Jordan on it. I am hoping that means he is going to be fired. I am writing a letter to GM tonight with the above and express that we need a new coach.
I am actually actively rooting against the Sixers right now -- that's how much I despise EJ.
So much for Johnny Flynn "struggling mightily at the pro level"
The sixers dont play pro level defense
Willie really getting after it.
This is just sad - 0 minutes for holiday in the 2nd half before the OT
eddie jordan pisses me off.
Iguodala and Green choking down the stretch. Pathetic.
Green sucks, Iguodala over trying, and Jordan running the wrong players on the floor
it's a team effort
Am I a bad fan rooting for the sixers to lose? Either way, I am so my letter will be easier to write!
If you are, then I am as well.
Which is ironic since we're both ST holders and paying for this product.
btw no Brand in OT
No Kapono when you NEED a three.
No Brand and Holiday when we needed stops, rebounds, and running the offense.
No coach is seriously better than Eddie Jordan as coach.
This loss is on 1 person, EDDIE JORDAN. Why don't you walk east till your hat floats when you get back to Philadelphia?
here's hoping Iverson and Brand team up to chew Eddie Jordan out in the media today. Neither of them looked real happy on the bench.
Iverson got torched defensively. He played way too long and should be happy with his time.
i didn't say AI should have played more. Jrue should have been on the floor. But honestly I'd rather have AI on the floor than Lou or Willie, and I just hope Iverson and Brand both are ticked off right now.
Don't want to be "that guy" when it comes to being an the Iguodala detractor around here...but the dude was absolutely dreadful when it counted. You guys on here glaze over the fact that he makes bad decisions with the ball when you talk about what a great facilitator he is. He can't hit a clutch free throw to save his life. He's not a star player, hes a nice player.
Game shouldn't have ever been close, Flynn took what he wanted all game long when Green/Lou "defended" him...Jrue needed to be in that game. Finally, the Wolves have ZERO presence inside on defense, so what does EJ have the team do? They chuck up jumpers all day...Brutal loss.
He was bad in OT, but so was everyone else. He was our best player today, but I agree he's not the one star we need. Still, you can't win with one star. LeBron can't even make the finals without another good player. I still hold that he's the second best scorer on a championship team with the right guys and coach. He was very good today minus the overtime. There was no reason he shouldn't have been switched to Gomes when he got hot.
I still hold that he's the second best scorer on a championship team with the right guys and coach
If this is how one judges who the 'best' player is - then there's a flaw in the analysis in my opinion
I don't know where you heard me say "player," but yes, we need a better scorer then him. I'm sorry, we need a guy who can score better than him, even though he can and will be the best all-around player.
You are alienating defenders of Iguodala now.
i think on a championship team your best scorer is generally a good overall player as well. Not many one-dimensional great scorers win championships.
Outside of Russell, when was the last time a team's best player wasn't also one of its top scorers?
Ben Wallace?
Dennis Rodman?
I guess a small case could be made for Wallace (although I think it's debatable). I don't think you can really say Rodman was the best player on any of his championship teams. In fact, Rodman didn't really explode (either defensively or on the glass) into all-world until after Detroit's 2 championships.
And I don't think anyone's going to say he was the best player on the Bulls team :)
Stipulating that this was a poorly coached game, our being outscored 9-4 in OT surely has something to do with our leading scorer and leading shot-attempter having a 0 pt, 2 TO overtime. It's not as if 9 points is a whole lot to give up in an overtime period - if you gave up 9 points for every 5 minutes in a game, you'd end up giving up just 86 points. Now the game in its entirety may have been a defensive loss, but in tight situations, it does always help if you have a great scorer.
How do we get a "great scorer" then? He scored efficiently today so don't say the overtime was a microcosm of the game today. He was our best player today, but we don't have a great scorer. He's a good scorer, but he had no help in the the OT. What are we going to do, clone Kobe Bryant?
Being the best player on a bad team isn't always a crowning achievement... They lost because of Eddie Jordan, but Iguodala didn't help things. Not so sure if i agree he was the best player out there today.
Who was? Sammy is the only argument. I'm aware but he could be the best all-around player on a good team with another elite scorer. I feel like you are trying to get him to go instead of using him as a piece to build with.
I never thought I'd say this, but Sam was our best player again today. EJ brought him back too late in the 4th, but thats another issue. You are mistaken, I like what Iguodala brings to the team, but I feel like there's very little reason to be an apologist for him. He has the big contract, he says hes the star player and that its his team, so criticize him when he deserves it. That's all I'm saying.
They tried to build around Iggy, if Brand had been close to the player that they'd desired him to be with the max contract, maybe it would've worked out. I'm just so disgusted with this team, I don't even know what I want them to do anymore.
Fair enough, I'm willing to listen to a lot of stuff at this point, but I feel Iguodala is a huge asset, that's all. Don't want to lose him for something that isn't great.
You mean you wouldn't trade him for expiring contracts and to dump sam?
You mean you wouldn't trade him for expiring contracts and to dump sam?
A sensible GM would realize that thanks to the Brand deal, we won't have much money to spend for several years, that no one wants Brand, and that therefore, he should deal Iguodala for picks and expiring contracts to a contender. Then you go into the doldrums for a year or two and hopefully come out a good team, as rebuilding/tanking teams like Denver pre-Melo, Cleveland pre-LeBron, San Antonio pre-Duncan, and Boston pre-KG-and-Ray did. Or, you could keep getting complementary types in the late lottery and middle of the first round and tinker around the edges with mid-level exception guys. And pray for Speights or Thad to become dominant scorers.
I would argue to get rid of Thad/Speights with Brand, if possible.
The ongoing Sixers' comedy of the man who won't see the obvious no matter how many times it whacks him on the ass. The joke's getting old, yet it lingers like a recurring dream.
Hopefully today we can put to rest this nonsense that Iguodala is a "clutch" end of game, closer type guy. As Barkley said last year, that shot he hit against Orlando was flat out lucky. I could hit that 1 out of 100 too...
Well, since Barkley is usually talking out of his ass it ignores all the other 'clutch' moments that Iguodala has had.
No one is '100%' in those 'have to score moments - fans remember the makers, haters remember the misses
He misses important free throws down the stretch time and time again. I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. I'm a die hard fan of a team that has 12 wins. I refuse to champion the self proclaimed star player of a 12 win club.
When did Iguodala call himself the star of the Sixers?
WHile I don't buy into the 'clutch' nonsense that so many others do - if you do - there's a lot of information out there that already indicates Iguodala is good in the clutch - but you (and barkley) won't believe it because you already know he isn't - regardless of facts.
Barkley also hates any player who is popular in philadlephia because of his own bitterness as far as I'm concerned
Well regardless of what he calls himself, that's what he is. And like I said a few posts back, is it really plausible that Andre's this incredible player who's just getting held back by an awful supporting cast and terrible coach? Or is it more a case of the star's not being very good? Just as Fred Carter's being the leading scorer of a 9-73 team tells you all you need to know about Fred Carter, the fact that Iguodala's the leader of this team would seem to say something about Iguodala.
Actually - based on what you'v written, and your need to over state his 'ego' (self proclaimed start is a huge ego thing, it's why I wanted you to prove it or take it back) - I think what's wrong is that as usual, you are one who expects more from Igudoala than what he actually does, what he's always done, since he was brought in here...he didn't make himself the 'star' of the team - he was anointed as such by idiotic media and fans who think he should be averaging 20 ppg or whatever...he's played the same game his entire career...i'm not sure why more money meant his game was going to suddenly change...
You're kidding right?
"Once you win, the other stuff comes. Once you start to show what you can do on the floor and demand a lot of attention and your team is on the same page with you and guys around me know that they have to get me the ball at the end and in order for us to win as well, that's when it really starts to show that you can be a superstar in this league. I feel that I can be there.
"I think among the guys in the league, I have that respect. Maybe some people in the media don't play within the game with me, it is hard to see. I think I make my teammates a lot better, I raise their level of play. And that's probably one of the toughest things to do in the NBA. There are a lot of guys out there scoring 30 points, but can they raise the level of the guys around them? Can they pass, defend, handle the ball and score as well? I'm getting there. I just think I have to get everybody on the same page and continue to work within this offense, and it will come."
After spraining the ankle the other day, Iguodala also said that he thinks hes "one of the best players in the game even on one leg"
Not sure where this humbled perception of Iggy comes from.
I guess you thought I was someone else because I've never said anything about his ego. Never thought he had a big one either. Others do, and maybe he does, but to me that doesn't even matter so long as it doesn't affect your shot selection or team chemistry. And actually, his shot selection is kind of poor at times but I don't see that as an ego issue, more of our not having a whole lot of alternatives issue.
As for his being the star, I don't expect him to change because we paid him like one, I just find fault with the attempt to build around a player who's not good enough to be built around. He is, no doubt about it, our best player, and he's not good enough to be a great team's best player. But I don't blame that on him, he is what he is, a mediocre scorer whose other contributions aren't so incredible as to raise his game to franchise player quality, I blame the front office for thinking that Iguodala and Brand were good enough of a core to contend one day.
Eddie Jordan needs to be FIRED as coach of the 76ers after this loss to the pathetic Minnesota Timberwolves. They actually have a WORSE record (2nd worst in the NBA) than the 76ers and yet the Sixers blow a 18 point lead and lose to them. It's so sad...so pathetic. Jordan has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory tonight...
Regardless of the Iguodala debate, Jordan has to be fired first. I really can't look forward to the future if he is the coach. I don't think that I can talk about personnel anymore if he is the coach.
Jrue leads the team with a Plus 7 and doesn't get any time in the 2nd Half. Inexcusable.
FEJ
Curios to hear how eddie jordan avoids complete and total blame for this post game?
since the game went into OT, comcast only aired about a minute of post-game pressers. Hopefully they post it online.
FYI, we apparently don't have a killer instinct. And Jordan's not sure how to get that if the players don't already have it. That's all he said during what they aired.
I would have a players only movie night that includes Rocky III, the Karate Kid, and Rudy
With his refusal to use Kapono, and Thad misplacing his jumper we are so easy to defend by packing it in. Certain teams non-scoring wings allow Kapono to play without killing us defensively but our coach doesn!t know how to adjust at all.
I'm glad to be out of town on business and not able to see or even DVR this game. However, it does sound like another nail in Jordan's coffin. I still log on everyday hoping against hope to see the announcement that Jordan has been fired. I really believe this could have been a 50 win team with proper coaching.
I really believe this could have been a 50 win team with proper coaching.
I believe they'd be better with better coaching - but even with good coaching I don't see them that good
I was remember reading on RealGM that many bloggers were predicting 50 or so wins. If we had only known about EJ ....
Anyway, I did not expect the team being much better than last year but expected better and an exciting team to watch.
Here's a good summary of how we all felt:
http://www.reclinergm.com/sixers-2010-forecasting/
I considered their offensive and defensive efficiencies were both right around 97 last year. Then I figured that Brand would more than make up for the loss of Miller on the offensive end and that EB would be a better defensive PF than TY. I thought (perhaps incorrectly as it turns out) that the more athletic LW would be better defensively than AM. Also with a new offensive system they could be more effective in the half court game. Statistically, I expected them to improve both their offensive and defensive efficiencies by 2-3 points, which would have been enough to boost them to 50 wins. (I still think LW COULD be a better defender, but there is no or minimal pressure on him to get better.
I had them around the same as last year, i think a few games under - and this is why
1. New system
2. Lou Williams ain't a point guard - he's a sixth man -
3. Integrating Elton Brand - this is his real 'first season' with the team and that takes time - learning a new system or not
4. Willie Green was still on the team and will inevitably get too many minutes
5. Sam Dalembert is still a mediocre player (and he still is, he's just had a good couple of weeks)
6. Weak bench additions
I mean how many 50 win teams are there going to be in the east this year? 4 probably? Do you think the sixers are even close to as talented as the Hawks with the right coach ? I'm not sure I do, not right now
opps, you are correct, John.
Forgot Willie Green is still on the team. My bad.
willie green hit the fucking side of the backboard on a wide...WIDE OPEN 3 in OT. Did anyone else see that? Also, i'm convinced eddie jordan will be fired soon. I don't think you can blow a 20 point lead to the 8 (now 9) win timberwolves with your gm stressing better defense and keep your job.
We can only hope you are right. Yes, I thought wow, here is the guy that our coach kept in because he was hot! I guess he forgot the law of averages.. And Willie is a bench player at best.
If you go with Green and AI for 65 minutes (and the final qtr) you deserve to lose. In fact its almost better to lose to fully demonstrated the level of stupidity involved.
It hurts them short term and long term to give all of your minutes to those vets who will play no role in the team's future. It further alienates a furious fan base. It makes you wonder how much longer any real fan can endure.
It continues to amaze me how a coach can be so short sighted in his win now and offense at all costs mentality... and yet it garners more losses than had he played the guys who need to be developed for the long term future. The guy is a savant at being an idiot.
i think the best way to proceed in a situation like this is to forget this game happened and go on pretending that your team is good and hope the next game will not refresh your memory.
blame it on EJ all you want, but that OT was mostly on the players. guaranteed that no one should have WG and LW out there instead of Brand who was subbed out or Sammy or AI......ok maybe its his fault.
Twolves packed it in, forced the limited Iguodala into 3 costly turnovers. other culprits were no better. we need a better system, players need to get smarter.
switched over to PHX-MEM game, Memphis trying to solve the Suns zone. you'd never see that with the Sixers.
again one player cant do it, need the whole 5 to buy in.
Yes, you need the whole 5 to buy in. But the person to GET the 5 players to buy in is the COACH. So it's absolutely the coach's fault for not getting all 5 players to buy in on playing defense and winning the games as a team.
Fire Eddie Jordan and bring someone in who can properly motivate and teach the players how to play team ball.
I hope this is one of the last nails in EJ's job coffin. Although any team can lose to any other team once in a regular season, doing it along with all the nonsense lineups and wacky plays and the arrogance is inexcusable. The sooner he goes the better. He is a cancer to this organisation.
I enjoyed reading this btw:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/328326-does-sixers-coach-eddie-jordan-have-any-final-shot-strategy#poll
This is the 3rd "embarrassing loss" of the season and the schedule hasn't even reached the NBA All-Star.
Only silver lining is that the worst 76ers coach since Doug Moe might just be fired by the All-Star break if the 76ers have a few more losses.
Kate's at it again...
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep ... _Loss.html
The best thing is that Stefanski was there and saw the game...Kate saw him outside the locker room after the game, and hopefully he knew Kate would write an article JUST LIKE THIS.
I say it's 50/50 Jordan doesn't make it through the week.
Thank God for Kate.
I'd let her coach this bunch. She can't do as badly as that guy with the braces.
Here's the full link to Kate's story. Great job by her, as usual.