DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

9/9: Cole Aldrich

user-pic
deepsixersuede on May 11 at 7:28
+/-

I have to disagree here; finding Sam!s replacement takes precedence to me over any other position, other than the p.g. position, which we filled last year. The workouts are the key, if he outplays the other possible center candidates [Whiteside, Monroe,Montiejunis,Orton] than I consider him at 6. We talk about a culture change with a new coach and I believe Sammy will unfortunately be part of that change. I have a higher opinion of Aldrich than you, Brian, and think he will be a top ten center because of his work ethic and intangebles [passing,screening,etc.] and wouldn!t be surprised to see him reach close to the level of Lopez in N.J. .

You are comparing him with the wrong Lopez.

From what I have seen and read, Alrich lacks the potential to be a quality offensive player like Kaman, R Lopez, Bogut or even Hawes. He could be as good defensively as those players if he fills out.

Best case he is a slightly bigger Nick Collison or a slightly less awkward Prizbilla.

Honestly, I would be just as happy having De'Andre Jordan, who can do most of the same things and is more athletic. And guys like that make it to the late 1st, early second round. IMO the only thing that separates Aldrich from a player like that is that Aldrich can contribute right away, instead of having to wait a year. And IMO for the Sixers there is no rush.

Jordan can do most of the same things PHYSICALLY. The difference in their mental understanding of the game, positioning themselves, and rotation is night and day.

How would you compare Robin Lopez to Aldrich?

IMO, Lopez is more athletic, just as intense defensively and just a big. Lopez was a reasonable pick at #15. I know you see Aldrich as reasonable around #8, and I guess I'd only agree if you see this draft as overall weak.

I think Robin is perhaps the most overrated defender/rebounder in the league. 14.2% career DRB%. Sometimes hustle != great defense. I see Robin out of position a LOT. Give me Cole any day of the week.

I meant as a prospect coming into the league.

Or compare him as a prospect to Noah coming in.

Robin was projected as a late first round pick who really had little to rely on other than hustle and athleticism. Robin wasn't in the same ballpark as a collegiate defender/rebounder. Rebounding has always been one of Robin's weak points.

Noah was a better prospect, who "slid" to 9th because there were questions about his dedication to the game.

How about Aldrich and Gortat?

Again, I'd take Gortat.

Gortat just got PAID last offseason, showing how valuable guys of those ilk are.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to tk76 on May 11 at 19:42
+/-

people who criticize Aldrich's offense have never seen him play. i dont understand why bogut and kevin love were such hot prospects but aldrich is a slow , unathletic white guy. great jump hook, terriffic footwork around the rim , always under control, great up and under, never takes bad shots. i nver would use the term unathletic or uncordinated, i dont know why it comes up. the guy should have got 15 shots a game and didnt.

robin lopez , are you serious? give aldrich some credit at least. the guy has been one of the best players in the country for two years.

I'm fairly certain when Draftexpress criticize his offensive game and lack of athleticism they are basing it on more than here-say or the color of his skin.

Great post suede, I agree that Sammy needs to leave and finding his replacement is the most important task that we need to accomplish in this draft. We'll have to find our sg in 2011, when hopefully there will be better options in the draft then this season.

I think that a lot of people think greg ostertag, nick collision, montross, big country reeves, and mccoulough when they think about Cole Aldrich, and that is unfair. This kid is a winner, and he will prove it starting next season. Hopefully for us.

Reeves had more offensive skill than Aldrich. Whereas Montross and OStertagg were complete stiffs. But Ostertagg was much bigger than Aldrich, so they could end up comparable player, although Aldrich has more upside right now.

What has Aldrich shown you to make you believe his offensive game is closer to B. Lopez as opposed to Robin Lopez? In fact I'd say Robin Lopez was a bit better prospect because he is more athletic.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on May 11 at 8:29
+/-

i think he needs major work offensively but has good hands and is immoveable on the low block. I think 13/10/2 are not unreasonable goals for his career and he could surpass those numbers if he gets with a trainer that pushes him.Tk, I love his physicalness, and passing ability and feel he can anchor a defense.Block to block I think he is quicker than both Lopez!s, just an opinion.

I don't think that his offensive game will ever reach Brooks level, but he will be a superior defender to Brook from day one. As far as Robin, he has no offensive game aside from dunks and garbage points.

I'm not really sure where this "winner" thing comes from. Kansas won the title when he was a freshman who rarely played (he played five minutes in the title game, averaged 7 for the tournament). Since he took over as a starter they got bounced in the 2nd round and the sweet 16 with high seeds both times.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Brian on May 11 at 19:44
+/-

they got bounced for 1 reason, and that is that loser 5'11''pg who only cared about winning if it were on his back.

user-pic
The Greek reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on May 11 at 20:32
+/-

He might have averaged 7 pts a game in his freshmen season but I am willing to bet that he averaged more then 7 pts down the stretch in the games that mattered. The guy places the game the right way, sets screens, boxes out. He even rotates the ball, which none of our centers do. Positional defensive position, I know you respect that Brian. He know's where to put his big body.

I'm just asking why he's a "winner" when he really didn't have anything to do with any successful teams in college. I don't know how being the best player on two teams who really disappointed in the tournament qualifies you as a winner.

And his freshman year he scored 12 points total in the NCAA tournament. 6 games. He played a total of 42 minutes.

Going 33-3 doesn't qualify as a winner ? I hate the over-importance people place on the tournament (while simultaneously loving the tournament as a sporting event).

If you fail to go 6-0 in the tournament, that nullifies the other 30 games ? I don't agree with that logic.

I equate 33-3 and a loss in the 2nd round of the tournament to the #2 seed getting knocked off by the #7 seed in the playoffs. Would you call Dirk a winner?

I'm not saying Aldrich is a loser, I'm just wondering what the definition of a winner is. I always assumed it was some nebulous quality that people think makes guys good at winning big games.

gotta go with Derek on the 33-3 record, he was a major part of them being winners as the last line of defense. I think the kid plays the game the right way, with a high motor, and with a high IQ. He didn't get the shots that he got as a sophomore, but he didn't pout like Sammy and start jacking up shots whenever he got the ball.

And on top of everything Brian, I think that he would compliment Jrue really well offensively and defensively. Sorry for the late responses, work hasn't allowed me to be online as often in the past.

It's certainly possible that he turns into a fine pro, I just don't see it. I've been wrong before, though.

"I equate 33-3 and a loss in the 2nd round of the tournament to the #2 seed getting knocked off by the #7 seed in the playoffs. Would you call Dirk a winner?"

You're comparing one and done round robin to 7 game series?

Clearly, one's better at determining the best team, and one's a gimmick for drama (and a great gimmick at that).

(obviously, I don't think your comparison is valid in the slightest)

Actually, when you're speaking in terms of "winnerism" and "this guy really knows how to win" I'd rate losing to Northern Iowa somewhere significantly below losing a 7-game series to the Warriors or the Spurs.

My point is that these "he's a winner" statements are always bullshit, but I find them to be particularly ridiculous when we're talking about a guy who didn't win when it mattered as the biggest and supposedly best player on the floor.

"Actually, when you're speaking in terms of "winnerism" and "this guy really knows how to win" I'd rate losing to Northern Iowa somewhere significantly below losing a 7-game series to the Warriors or the Spurs."

Yeah, again, I disagree. I just can't place an over-abundance on one game. There's a reason baseball, basketball, and hockey use 7 game series when determining the most deserving team.

If he can develop into a defensive 34 min, 12 pt, 8 reb guy, I'd draft him at 6 BUT he hasn't stood out to me in the couple of Kansas games that I have watched. So, I kind of see him as a role playing, rotational player.

"while Aldrich may be decent at a lot of things, I don't think he's great at anything and I don't see the potential for greatness either. He's a safe pick at a time when I don't think the Sixers can afford to be safe."

I disagree with both statements.

First, I think Aldrich has a few things he has a chance to be great at, namely rebounding (both offensively and defensively), post defense, and team defense. I don't consider those things small parts of the game, and I have little doubt he'll be more than decent at those things.

I also don't hate "playing it safe". The only thing worse than not getting a superstar with the #6/#7 pick would be not getting a starter with the #6/#7 pick. You WILL get a starter selecting Cole Aldrich.

Really, I don't get the hate for him. He's just become the poster boy for the "unsexy" pick. As tk76 pointed out a while back, there's a reason teams in the 8-10 range tend to have a high failure rate. The potential trap. Outside of the top 6, I'm not sure I see any potential superstars left. If Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins, Johnson and Aminu are off the board, I then re-evaluate my draft strategy. If I can get a starting big who should be an impact defender and rebounder, and who has the basketball intelligence to quarterback a defense, who's a great communicator, and who isn't going to turn the ball over or take a bad shot every time he gets an offensive rebound, that's not the worst thing in the world. I'd much rather fall into the "taking the safe pick" approach than I would "taking a potential defensive liability" approach like drafting Greg Monroe, for example.

That being said, Cole Aldrich is a worst case scenario. I had a lot more interest in him at 8-10. We'd have to get leapfrogged AND the draft would have to go according to plan for me to have interest in him. At 6, he shouldn't be on our radar. But we're not guaranteed 6 yet.

That is why I am questioning if this is a shallow draft. IMO someone of Aldrich's caliber tends to go 10-15 many years. I think someone like Kaman, B. Lopez, Noah were all better NBA prospects than Aldrich is. If Aldrich was physically dominant I would change my tune, but he is not bigger than those guys.

I'm not saying he will be a horrible player. He has a chance to be a defensive starter- but I don't see how he gets more than 10 pts a game. Bet case I see kendrick Perkins- which is not a bad thing. But not worthy of a top 8 pick unless it is a weak draft pool.

Kaman went 6th. Brook was projected top 5, and slid to 10th because of "upside" concerns. Noah went 9th, and he slid because of dedication to the game concerns.

Considering all have turned into borderline all-star centers, and outside of Kaman slid because of concerns that proved to be overblown, I'm not sure who's argument you're making.

This is a deep draft in the sense that there should be contributors 20-25. It's not a deep draft in the sense that there are 10+ all-stars IMO.

user-pic
Zach Attack on May 11 at 9:19
+/-

So pretty much this is what we'll see with Aldrich....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ajk9JnJtg

The best part of that video is Ostertag vs. Reeves about halfway through.

user-pic
shawn reply to Zach Attack on May 11 at 17:49
+/-

This is hilarious.

user-pic
JohnEMagee on May 11 at 10:24
+/-

The draft is to improve the long term fortunes of your team, you draft the best player available when you're drafting 'this high' (one week until the lottery) and only worry about need when it's a tie, at least that's how I see it.

People hate Sam, I get it, we all get it, but finding a Sam replacement when maybe you can re-sign him to a 'reasoanable' contract for a healthy defensive center is more important than finding a guy to start between Holiday and Iguodala (the sixers have no one) or a power forward who isn't mostly done (Brand) or uninterested in improving his game (Speights)?

I don't see it, this is a team with MULTIPLE holes and Sam hatred I believe clouds the view of many.

The sixers only have two quality 'contending team' players right now signed for the long term, sam would make a third, the sixers could solve their sam replacment problem with a contract much easier than they can solve the 'williams/green/meeks' none of them are starters brand/speight conundrum problems.

Yeah, I figured a good number of people would disagree with me on this one.

This is what it boils down to: Best-case scenario, Aldrich turns into a 10/10/2 guy who doesn't make silly mistakes and also doesn't run the floor. In college, his lack of athleticism was hidden by his size advantage. In the pros, that won't happen.

I think we have a body of work to look at, this isn't some raw kid who played one year in college and we're trying to project what he's going to be. Take a look at Kansas' schedule from this past season, especially take a look at the quality bigs Aldrich faced. If he was going to be something special, he would've been it in his junior season. Instead, his minutes dropped, his offensive production dropped, his rebounding dropped as well. He did block a ton of shots this past season, can't take that away from him.

When it comes right down to it, I think Aldrich's best chance is to be a defensive center in the league, but I don't believe he has the needed athleticism to excel in that role, not at the NBA level.

user-pic
JohnEMagee on May 11 at 11:05
+/-

Chad Ford


Not a Cole Aldrich fan? I've gotten lots of upset e-mails from Sixers fans over putting Aldrich at No. 6. He's solid. He rebounds, he blocks shots, he's more mobile than he looks at first glance and he can even shoot the ball a bit. He's not a star, but he's not crap either. Watch some more game film on him on Synergy. He's not a stiff. And if this helps, Bill Simmons loves him.

Yes Chad, tell everyone to watch game film of him on Synergy - cause they all have the access you do.

Bill Simmons loving a guy doesn't exactly make my heart a flutter...

"In college, his lack of athleticism was hidden by his size advantage. In the pros, that won't happen."

Disagree.

I don't really care how much he's running the floor. I care much more about how well he ignites it.

I have concerns that he'll be able to do either exceptionally well on the next level.

Quick question, I'm assuming you've watched tape of his games. Why were his minutes down this past season?

The reason his minutes are down is mostly because of depth. The Morris twins (freshman the previous year) saw an increased role. Bill Seif has generally short rotations.

That being said, he wasn't exactly playing a ton of minutes the previous year, either. I do have some concern over whether he has the conditioning to play 30-35 nba minutes.

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on May 11 at 11:24
+/-

Derek

I didn't watch a lot of kansas, but when I did aldrich seemed to get winded EASILY and quickly...was that my imagination

As I said, I view it as a legitimate concern.

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on May 11 at 11:37
+/-

So i wasn't imaginging things.

Urgen update from espn.com sent via text

Rod Thorn expects John Wall to get #1

Other breaking news
Brett Favre might play QB next year
Derek Jeter is god

I think the talent was a big reason that he shot a high percentage though. I watched Kansas a ton this year, they are like the Lakers of college. Their size and skill allowed him to get easy buckets (their favorite play was a high-low with him getting the pass from one of the Morris twins). It was like they were on the 10th floor while everyone else was stuck on the 8th. I don't think that translates to the pros. He's not going to have an advantage that he had with the size of his front line vs. every other NCAA front line (which was huge defensively). He didn't improve at all offensively from last year which is a concern.

It is 'unsexy' to pick him, but I think he's a one dimensional player without great athleticism so he's not exactly a dream scenario. I don't know if he's a surefire starter, but he'll help you team.

If you had choose between him and Donatas Montejunas who would pick?

I really have no idea what to make of Donatas. From what I've read, he's got size, but plays on the perimeter, which I'm not a fan of.

user-pic
Stan reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:46
+/-

I would take Montejunas. He has more potential. I don't know much about him, but this is what I read on nbadraft.net:

"Has inside/outside ability with the ability to defend inside and play with his back to the basket, as well as knock down shots on the perimeter ... His outside shot has both range and consistency, and he has begun to develop some excellent moves including a jump hook, a turnaround fadeaway as well as fakes to draw opponents off their feet and excellent footwork"


I would hate taking Aldrich even if we slid to 8. I'd take Whiteside, Udoh, Orton,Davis and obviously Aminu over Aldrich and not think twice. He's not a guy who five years from now we would say oh my god how the hell did we pass on Cole Aldrich.

But on the flip side, in a year when Sam is gone, we may be really hurting at the center position. And there may not be a simple way to address that problem.

That said, this team has deeper issues beyond just replacing Sam. issues that probably won't be corrected with the #6 or #7 pick. Ownership and management do not inspire long term confidence.

user-pic
Steve reply to tk76 on May 11 at 12:59
+/-

Solid point but would you rather take a low risk low reward player like Aldrich to fill a need in a year where we wont contend anyway or take someone like Whiteside who may take a few years but has out of this world potential and at worst can do the same things aldrich does(block a ton of shots and guard the best opposing post player)?

I can see Whiteside out of the league in 4 years. I agree he is a big risk/reward player, but the Sixers are not the right environment to take that risk.

user-pic
Steve reply to tk76 on May 11 at 13:14
+/-

Can't you also see Aldrich as an average backup center? Hopefully we get a top three pick next week so we dont have to worry about Aldrich or Whiteside and we can debate which future superstar to draft.

Agree, although I think Aldrich has the tools and drive to be a successful player. Either as a solid starter rotation guy.

user-pic
JohnEMagee on May 11 at 14:10
+/-

God I can't wait for draft night so we can stop taking about this over rated twat who wouldn't be on sixers fans radar if not for one reason only

O.T., I just ordered ESPN the Mag for 4$ a year because it includes insider access. Deal is good for anywhere from 1-4 years. Found it at slickdeals. let me know if anyone wants the link.

Definitely. What's the link?

Just an FYI, buying from anywhere not directly from ESPN only gives you access to Insider for a year, I believe. I just did it a month ago and it says my Insider account expires in 11 months.

Darn, wish I knew this before I bought 4 years :)

The magazine takes a few months to start arriving. But apparently you can contact ESPN in a few weeks to get the Insider up and running.

Cool. Thanks for the link. Decided to send the mag to my nephew as part of a graduation gift. I used to have Insider, but got rid of it when the price was a bit higher for info I could find on some newspaper.

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 11 at 17:46
+/-

. Decided to send the mag to my nephew as part of a graduation gift.

Why do you hate your nephew?:)

I get insider for free or i wouldn't use it :)

lol. He loves it, I used to give him mine when they came in. Sometimes the features are worth it, especially for less than two dimes an issue

user-pic
JohnEMagee on May 11 at 17:13
+/-

As an aside, slickdeals and fatwallet are just good sites to know if you like online bargain hunting

user-pic
teddygreen on May 11 at 18:01
+/-

Sam Mitchell on a toronto radio discussing his Sixers interview....

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20100510_152736_9612

Good find. It's hilarious that Mitchell spends a good deal of time talking about how it's important to have stability at the top of the organization. He does realize that Stefanski could still get fired this summer, and he's probably got one more season at best if things don't improve in Comcast's eyes, right?

Also, I know I'm incredibly immature, but Canadian accents ALWAYS crack me up.


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif