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Report: Sixers Sign Thad For Five

I think based on what's going on on the open market the sixers might have gotten a deal.

That being said, I don't think it's a great contract or anything, it's just probably the 'cheapest' you were going to get him for.

I'd prefer if it's front loaded so that the majority of the money is paid by the time iguodalas contract is over. But based on the sixers history of over paying mediocre restricted free agents without them hitting the open market, I guess it's a 'win' for the new ownership.

I'd have preferred an entirely different direction, but the new ownership doesn't seem that interest in changing direction just yet - so I'm meh about the deal.

I can live with it. Not too much that he becomes un-tradeable. He's 23, he'll finish his contract by the age of 28. Is the last year guaranteed? I thought you couldn't sing a guy for my than 4 years based on the new CBA

w/ bird rights you can sign them for five and give 7.5% raises. w/out bird rights it's four years and 4.5% raises.

I think they gambled well to avoid paying millions more if Denver got involved. Thad's their plan so could have been worse.

Nice John Hollinger just replied to me on twitter. Says Denver was never interested in Thad. Go figure.

It's a better contract than Charlie Villanueva's and Marvin Williams'. It's inflated, no doubt, but you have to find the middle ground between past production and future potential and I think they did well there.

Where does this contract place him among the top bench players?

Lamar Odom is not practicing with the Lakers and does not plan to come to camp at this time

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 18:13
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If he doesn't stay in LA his marriage is over.

Isn't that a reason to leave?

If that would cause his marriage to end then there is no love or strength in their relationship at all.

If Odom being traded (not like it's his idea) causes his wife to leave him, then she's a selfish twat he shoudln't be married to anyway.

Look at the top 6th men in the NBA and what they are paid.

IMO having a top level 6th man is more important than your 5th starter. So I don't mind paying him a decent chunk to come off the bench. And worse case I expect him to be tradeable throughout the deal.

Thad is making a lot less than Iguodala- and in a time wen the salary cap is actually higher than when Iguodala signed his deal.

Thad SHOULD make a lot less than Iguodala - I'm not sure why you bring that up - at this pint in their careers (after their rookie deal) Iguodala was a better all around player than Thad is now (possibly will ever be)

I'm not sure what Iguodalas salary has to do with it

Iguodala's salary maxes out in the range where it hamstrings your organization 15M/16M the last 2 years.) Thad's contract is much lower, to where I would doubt it really effects what the Sixers want to do.

Every team can afford to pay a top 6th man about 8M per year if they plan on being good in the next 5 years.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 9 at 18:21
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But Iguodala is a better player, top 5 at his position.

I'm sorry - but making that comparison you did about Thad and Iguodala's contracts just feeds the 'Iguodala hate', Iguodala is WORTH a lot more than Thad

Just saying that we are not talking huge money. And Iguodala's contract was based on the assumption that he would be a better player than he is right now- and that is not hating.

Iguodala was coming off of a 19.9/5.4/4.8 breakout season. I think the hope was that he would continue to become a top 15 player. He improved, but not by leaps and bounds. Which meant his contract was good for 2-3 years and bad on the back end.

My point, probably not very well made) is that Thad's contract does not have nearly the risk, because it will stay in a more reasonable range.

Igduoala was a steal for five years
Thaddeus Young was less of a steal

Honestly - to compare the two after five years is asinine - Thad will be LUCKY if he's ever as good all around as Iguodala was after year 5

You are comparing the players. I am comparing the merits and risk involved with their contracts.

Sorry if my initial post was unclear. Iguodala's was a risky deal that hoped he would grow into his eventual 15M/16M salary. Thad's is not a dangerous deal. His final year he will make less than what many top 6th men make right now- so there is little to no risk when you can always hit the reset button with a trade.

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Dec 9 at 19:24
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+1

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 19:22
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Both guys are being paid fairly...for now.

Thad has a better chance of making this contract look like a steal at the end of it than Iguodala does, IMO.

And that is NOT hating on Iguodala.

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The Greek on Dec 9 at 18:17
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I am very glad that Thad is back, and while I would have loved it if we locked him up for 6 million I can live with 8 million.

yes renounce Hawes, and please don't waste the amnesty on Noc

The RIp is done in Detroit

he should go to rip city

Replacing Roy, who is career RIP?

I like Thad, and the contract seems to be what you have to pay for a guy like him. My only problem is now it's clear we are going to have the same team as last year on the floor. {sigh}
I'm sure the new mascot will bring a lot of buzz.

It might bring buzz based on how bad it is...

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Dec 9 at 20:58
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Harsh.

This team SHOULD be better than last year. The only two teams that I see as clear-cut better are CHI and MIA...BOS, ATL and ORL are all probably better, but I guess I don't see what those guys REALLY added to improve a lot...while the simple time together and improvements to Jrue and ET's games should account for something...yes?

If DC can somehow find 30 decent minutes out of the 5 between Hawes, Vucevic or some mystery player not yet named, they should be shooting for homecourt in the 1st round.

The knicks are better

Sorry

That's seriously up for debate. They have no PG. As much as I like Douglass, he's not a guy who can run a team for 30 minutes/night, especially not a team with two guys who need a ton of touches, and equal touches. Just read the Knicks are trying to get Mike Bibby, which is hilarious. The Heat don't really "need" a PG, because LeBron and Wade are great at setting teammates up and creating, the Knicks have two guys who don't pass and kind of need someone to set them up. Plus, they're so unbelievably shallow. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sixers finished ahead of the Knicks, not at all.

The Sixers could play on a near 50 win pace if they stay healthy (which is how they played for most of last year.) I think the Sixers could be in the hunt for a 4 seed (3 seed if Boston gets hurt.) I just don't think the Sixers are headed any higher than that anytime soon. there is a big leap from the 48-50 game "Hawks" pace and the 60 game contender level.

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Dec 9 at 22:26
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That is a LOT different than what you wrote above, bro. I, for one, would very much be up for a BOS-PHL Eastern Conference semifinal Game 3 at the WFC.

As of now, NYK is a poor man's MIA until they prove something, and I agree with Brian - no PG is big. There is no reason why Jrue, ET and Thad can't each take another material step in their games...and collectively that means something. In both CHI and DET, Collins' teams made big jumps in their first AND second years (50 wins in season 2 with the Bulls and 54 wins in season 2 with the Pistons) - and I don't see why he can't do it again here.

I am actually pretty bummed that they re-signed Battie...for the minutes the guy will play, I would have rather seen them sign Kurt Thomas or Joel Przybilla. It doesn't sound like they are going to use the amnesty clause on Nocioni...which sux.

To be clear, the 50 win pace is the ceiling for this team- and it is a "hard cap." It is a best case- but the team did show they could play at a 50 win level for extended periods of time. With the roster returning intact, a healthier Iguodala and everyone a year better they could play at that level this season.

I still don't see a light at the end of the tunnel but it still could be an enjoyable season.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 21:46
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I think the Tyson Chandler signing puts them ahead of Boston and Atlanta. They have 10 million in expiring contracts including young talents like Landry Feilds and Tony Douglas. I think they can find a decent one in a trade.

I hope they stick with Tony Douglas and fail at trading for Chris Paul. They'll have to fill 9 spots with minimum contracts.

I meant that the Mascot is terrible- not the team...

That team was a bad start, several fluke late losses, and one semi-adequate center away from finishing as the 5th or even 4th seed in the East last year...and if DH12 ends up going out west while Boston starts aging in dog years Philles-style, that team just might make noise...

...does anyone have any idea what the new CBA does/will do to the trade deadline? Any idea when it is, if there are limits on how deals have to match...how it might impact trying to pick up a guy like Sam, if he ends up somewhere that isn't MIA?

5th year is a player option. I would not be surprised if he opts out (given his age.)

So possibly a 4 yr 33M deal- just like what Marcus Thornton is getting :)

BTW, for next year:

Lou: 6M
ET: 5M
Thad: 7M
Noce: 6.5M


I thought nocioni expired this year?

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Dwight reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 18:48
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He has two years left. However, everyone expects us to use the amnesty clause on him. And Noc doesn't even want to play in the NBA any more, so I suspect he won't be on the team next season.

He is under contract this year and then has team option for 2012/13.

If they pick up the option they should be hit - hard

Wasn't Thad Young one of the league leaders in FG%? This guy was amazingly efficient from the field last season. Him and Lou Will make a great bench tandem.

great offensive bench tandem.

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Johnnylaptop on Dec 9 at 18:52
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I expect our players to be improved as a team. Signing Thad is step one. We have a bright future with the new owners. They are winners in the game of life.

I brought this up at LB:

What do you think about amnesty of Brand and trading Iguodala for picks?

That would leave the Sxiers with:

Jrue/Lou
Meeks
Turner
Young/Brackins
Vucevic/Hawes?/Battie
...and maybe a young player you get back for Iguodala

My reasoning is you have quality role players entering their prime and a ton of cap space. You also are bad enough to qulaify for a high lottery pick.

Say Drummond is the next Dwight and the Sixers luck out and draft him. Then he would step into a young team with quality pieces that would be ready to win as soon as the drafted star is ready (usually in 2-3 seasons.)

Basically, you have a bad team, but one that is well coached and primed to take off when they find the right franchise player.

To make an analogy, it will be like a nice frame but without an engine. As opposed to the typical lottery team that is a junker that you have to scrap once you get the right engine.

In principle great - but my problem is that the best place for Iguodala has always been a contender - which means the picks aren't worth that much.

And the pipe dream of the clippers is killed by caron butler isn't it?

Ok - here's a random thought

What if the clippers traded for Iguodala, giving us the cap room - the clippers pick this year and the twolves pick

THEN

Offer blake griffin to Orlando for Dwight Howard - howard is right - they don't work together - obviously a contract must go in to balance it out - but the core deal is griffin for howard

Howard gets to play with Iguodala IN la - orlando gets the biggest 'rookie' type draw big man out there.

Wait a minute - so i think that might work for everyone :)

That would work.

Just threw it up at LB for input - cause i can't make the pieces fit right now - but I think in principle it's the kind of thing that really works for everyone - sure - the Clippers got the most 'immediate' talent but the sixers and magic both got something quite valuable as well

Except the Clippers would never do it because Iguodala does not guarantee that he will resign with them. Not to mention that the Clippers probably view Griffin as better than Howard right now because, you know, they are the Clippers.

If the rumors are to be believed, Iguodala would give him a good reason to stay in Orlando.

If he's in LA with Iguodala (and a better point guard) is that not even BETTER than staying in Orlando with Iguodala.

Yes Dwight has to agree to the extension but look at the idea - I believe dwight would agree to this extension with the clippers because it's also super bold by Sterling...

Would you do it for the sixers - you get at least one lottery pick (probably close to one of the highest picks in the draft) the sixers probably in the lottery (amnesty brand if you make this deal - waive kaman) and the clippers pick - you have 3 first round picks in the 2012 nba draft - 2 of them in the lottery

The Magic got the best rookie big man in the league to try and build around again

I know it's beyond insane - but honestly - it's the kind of thing that makes sense to me - does it make sense to you? As a sixers fan - would you be ok with that kind of 'rebuilding' move?

I would be ok with such a move, but i don't think it's realistic. That kind of a trade falls in the Westbrook fro Paul category. Great as ideas, but never gonna happen.

Dwight/Iguodala to Los Angeles
Kaman to Sixers
Griffin to Orlando

ESPN Trade machine is not adjusted for the new rules or new contracts - but this might come close

I think Orlando makes out too well in that deal actually. Dwight is the better player, but they have little leverage with him, while Griffin is under a cheaper contract for 3 more years.

But if it's ALL orlando gets - orlando has to get something to make it worth while to give up Dwight Howard

Yes the magic get a great player - but they still have salary problems after the deal cause no other players leave the roster - so it's not like it's just smooth sialiing - but they have a building block - and a better one than brook lopez

And the sixers have 2 lottery picks (probably) in the 2012 draft :)

No trade is perfect but I think it's a deal in which every teams gets something that helps them going forward honestly - how often do you see that?

My question:

If Orlando is willing to take Lopez and picks for Dwight, they wouldn't take a combination of Thad/Lou/Evan/Speights and picks for him?

I haven't seen one reliable report that actually supports the idea that Orlando would make that deal, only person to say that deal might be done is Broussard

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Stan reply to Ryan F on Dec 9 at 19:52
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I've heard that Orlando isn't interested in that deal.

My question:

If Orlando is willing to take Lopez and picks for Dwight, they wouldn't take a combination of Thad/Lou/Evan/Speights and picks for him?

Seems Thad got cold feet, settled for less than he could have gotten had he & agent stayed in market a while longer. Decision is in keeping with his personality though... loyal, a little timid, essentially a team player/homebody. Sixers got a nice price, relatively speaking, on a quality contributor.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Dec 9 at 21:00
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Agree.

Who was better David Robinson or Dwight Howard?

I think numbers-wise, Robinson in his prime might have been better, but when you take into account the scarcity of big men, Howard is more valuable than Robinson was. Robinson was a much better offensive player.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 20:07
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Who was better at defense? I know Robinson averaged 4 blocks a game but there was no restrictive circle and at least 10 guys averaged 2.5 bpg or more at that time.

Both tremendous. Robinson was understated, consummate pro who certainly left his mark. Howard basks as 'big top' entertainer. Robinson more poised. Howard more athletic. Robinson better shooter. Howard stronger, though not by much. Lefties often drive righties nuts, therefore, if I had to choose between the two for a series, I'd take Robinson. Howard's got a good ways to go to match the former Midshipman careerwise. Howard didn't get around to refining his craft against the Lafayette Leopards, Lehigh Engineers/Mountain Hawks & Bucknell Bison... has some catchin' up to do - and just might do it.

I'd say Howard is more physical and explosive, but Robison was the more gifted athlete. Robinson was like an agile SF who was 7'1. Both Robinson and Hakeem are probably the two most gifted athletes to play C in terms of speed, agility and co-ordination this side of Wilt.

Robinson was like 6'4" when he went to college, right? Had a huge, late growth spurt, but retained the elite athleticism he had at 6'4". Unique combo.

He wouldn't have a ring if the Sixers hadn't gotten screwed in that lottery, though.

Robinson more gifted athlete? By what measures? Howard decisive winner in jumping ability. Both gallop 94 like thoroughbreds. Hands? Neither all thumbs. The better agility, improv-ability? Robinson. Could put ball on floor, use glass better.

Robinson, greater focus, more schooling, better student of game (see comparitive A/TO numbers). The Admiral had a number of offensive moves; Superman self-limited in that regard. On defensive end, Howard lives in opponent consciousness more imo, though Robinson was no slouch as block stats attest (#4 all-time).

Howard dominates this era due to combination of superior athleticism (which includes power) and scant competition at center. A spectactular specimen with room to grow in ways of the game. Money & glorification to date without having certain fundamental tools on offense doesn't highly incentivize. Maybe championship aim will.

Both HOF players. I agree with Brian.

Howard has a bigger impact on today's game then Robinson had in his era. Robinson is more talented and versatile, but Dwight is comparatively stronger when you look at the competition at his position.

Boston got Chris Wilcox on a one year deal. Shame. I wanted the Sixers to sign him.

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South Broad reply to Stan on Dec 10 at 1:40
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+1

So add the Voose, subtract Kapono. That's it, right? Assuming they re-sign Hawes, they'll have like zero meaningful turnover unless they blow our doors off with a crazy move.

Oh, I guess Nocioni might get bought out as well.

Not if they put me in charge :)

How are the Celtics "closing in on signing David West?" Makes no sense, they don't have any cap space. Is he going to sign for the MLE?

is he signing for the vet minimum?

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski As @Daldridgetnt reports, David West close w/ Celtics. Y! Sources say sides working on a sign-and-trade for a 3-year, $27-29M deal.

Jermaine O'Neal and someone else coming to New Orleans; they'll be sent elsewhere. (Perhaps to LA!) Maybe David Stern can opine as to what's fair value for Jermaine O'Neal these days.

Has to be Jeff Green, right?

No reason NO can't just keep him for that same salary

Hawks signing Vlad Rad.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 22:48
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Wow, Vlad Rad, T-Mac, makes them really dangerous.

(Just to be clear, that's sarcasm; wouldn't want gosixers to call me a moron.)

Oh tray, there's so much that already does that by itself, your poor sarcasm doesn't help at all

I think this was a pretty good deal, almost a bargain compared to what other people are being paid in this truncated offseason.

Happily, seems there's a real chance Paul to the Lakers will get revived. I imagine Stern doesn't want to trash the image of the league (seemingly everyone who follows or covers the NBA is outraged by what happened last night) and will approve a tinkered version of the deal.

In the same vein of "Taking my talents to South Beach" when I'm questioned about something at work, i'm starting to use the blanket "business reasons" as my response.

Basketball reasons, you mean.

Yep , you got it

Agreed, though I think they'll do a bit more than tinker. NOH will need an extra draft pick and less salary assumed.

So how about Broussard today? Just when I thought he couldn't get any more useless, he outdoes himself once again.

First, he tells us the season will be cancelled, about 4 days before the settlement. Nice call Chris. Then today, he goes on Mike & Mike and makes the preposterous claim that Howard for Lopez was "very close" and would likely get done on Friday. He either has the worst sources in the world or he fabricated that garbage to get RTs on twitter. Then his "sources" tell him Billy King and Proky met with Dwight Howard in Miami in violation of tampering rules. Now, we all know BK isn't the smartest GM on the planet, but please. A direct meeting between the owner and GM of another team and the superstar player being watched by everyone, in the one of the glitziest cities in America, without permission from the Magic? Get real Broussard.

When will ESPN fire this attention-seeking clown?

When will ESPN fire this attention-seeking clown?

Um, after they fire the following attention-seeking clowns

Keyshawn Johnon
Kenny Mayne
Skip Bayless
Stephen A Smith
Any former NBA player who works for them

Attention seeking clowns get ratings - that's all ESPN cares about

If you have espn insider check this out

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/transactions-111209/nba-analyzing-every-free-agent-deal

I feel like this is a pretty accurate assessment of the 2 moves the sixers made.

It seems like this ownership assumes it must give out player options

Man i gotta say, i pitty the Blazers. What a day for them... Roy retiring, Oden suffering a setback (unlikely to play this year, ever?), Aldridge had heart surgery and is out 2 weeks... And that was their envisioned big 3.

On a side note we open @Portland so that game just became winnable if Aldridge isn't ready by then...

Two of those things were pretty predictable, if not inevitable, the aldridge thing sucks, but the other two, how do you feel bad for someone when the same thing happens over and over again and yet they expect different outcomes, some people define that as insanity

Unusually dumb post from Matt Moore on Thad:

"The only question is, what are the Sixers really planning on with this signing? They currently have Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner, Craig Brackins, Elton Brand, and Marreese Speights at forward. It's not that Young will have a hard time getting minutes. He won't. It's that the Sixers have made a significant committment to a number of players at forward and have yet to set out a plan for how to build a team around them."

Brackins? Turner? Speights? Brand?

Al Jefersson got beat up by his girlfriend.

Toughness!!!

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Lonnie Fuller on Dec 10 at 9:55
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So I've been stewing about the NBA, particularly, the 76ers lousy position, compared to the Lakers position. I've been trying to take a Stockdale approach and find a way for the 76ers to win a title. Since the players are now deciding value, the key is to find the weakness in their thinking. For instance, they grow up in the AAU system that values scoring above anything else. Defense is not valued. Therefore, Carmelo Anthony is extremely valued, whereas I wouldn't want him on my team.

Going back to some original truths, one, children don't win championships and two, defense wins championships, the goal is to find players that play defense and can score. No team needs 5 players who can get 30, but a team that cannot defend cannot win. That's why the sixers made the finals with only one scorer, and the Pistons won the title several years later. So a successful small market team shuns the top paid players (scorers) and builds a more balanced team.

The NBA is a 3 point happy league. As Doug Collins points out, you want the other team to shoot long 2 point shots, not layups, not threes. Most teams try to do this by asking their perimeter defenders to cheat in to the lane and still get out to the three point line. Very hard to do. A better choice would be to post your perimeter players on the three point line and have Godzilla's little brother at center. This defense protects the rim, forces long two pointers off the dribble instead of post-up shooting from the three. In this respect, Orlando had it backwards. They played offense the way they should have played defense.

Team composition would include a shot-blocker and rebounder at center, a pass first point guard with great on-ball defensive skills, and defensive minded players who can get 12 a night at two of the other three positions, one of which must be a forward. One of those other three positions has to be a scorer, someone who can make their own shot in the clutch. You have to have at least one and it's the only starter who can be relatively weak on defense. In my mind, the most valuable players are those who can score 25 and play great defense. That's one reason why the Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe teams were so dominant.

Players off the bench depend on your starters but in general, you need 2 tough defenders and one shooter without a conscience, a modern day Microwave. Someone has to maintain the offensive threat when you go to the bench. They are streaky, sometimes hog the ball, and in many cases can't be stopped. They don't have any defensive capacity and they may not play well with teammates. But man, can they light it up. I'm thinking Jamal Crawford or even Lou Williams. They are so different to your normal offensive plays that the defense has to play two different systems during the course of the game.

Now my sadness.

The 76ers aren't trying to replicate their most recent success. From 1998-2001 we had a young team that grew together and included most of these components. Theo Ratliff protected the rim, getting 2 blocks per game and altering shots along with 11 ppg and 8 rpg. Eric Snow couldn't score, but even without penetration skills, he found teammates for 6-8 apg and was a great on-ball and passing lane defender, getting 2 steals/night. Tyrone Hill was a questionable, one-time all star who gave you 10/8 every night with great defense and without needing the ball. George Lynch was a tossed away guy from UNC who was willing to play defense to stay in the league. AI was humanized lightning, an 11-time all-star who averaged 27/6 and 2 steal over 14 years. He didn't have a great shooting percentage, but could get his shot almost whenever he wanted. I do remember Kobe stopping him one night on the last play of the game, but it didn't happen often, probably why I remember it.

Look at the sixers now. They do have some of the required pieces, although they may not know it. Jrue Holiday is a pass-first, defensive minded point guard. People want him to get 20 a night. I don't. I want him to do more of what he already does. Lou Williams is Vinny Johnson. He just is. Elton Brand is a better Tyrone Hill. At one point, he was a legitimate all-star, but that designation is rare after tearing your Achilles tendon. He'd be a perfect pick-up after getting the amnesty axe. Iggy is a great player to have on your team. A shut down defender who can get 15 points a night without calling plays for him. But you can't call plays for him. He's Bobby Jones trying to be Julius Erving and therefore a goat rather than a hero. And finally, they keep trying to acquire a Brooks Lopez clone instead of a defensive beast. I don't need my center to hit a 15 footer. I want people to know that it's in their best interest to pull up and not continue down the lane. Thaddeus Young, Evan Turner and Marreese Speights are side-shows and distractions. None of them defends although at least Thaddeus can score without calling plays for him.

Ok, now that I've figured out how to win without being in a "destination" city, I can give up my sour grapes. Let the Lakers have CP3. I actually think the better move for them would be to package players and get Dwight Howard, but I'm sure they looked at that too.

BTW, I am curious to watch OKC. Adding Perkins in the middle was a great move. He doesn't block a lot of shots but he is mean enough to pull it off and Ibaka blocks 2.4 per game. Durant still has to figure out how to get his shot no matter what. Last year showed he hasn't figured that out yet. Harden reminds me of Aaron McKie and Collison brings defense and toughness up front off the bench. Their problem is that their second scorer is also their point guard. Few shoot first point guards win championships, it's just too hard to concentrate on scoring and also be great at involving your teammates. Zeke is the only one I can think of. Magic scored, but he wasn't a shoot-first point guard. For them to win it all, they need to trade Westbrook for a scoring two-guard. It's too soon to know if Maynor is the answer at point. He is young, and his body language is a little scared, but he performed well in the playoffs in the uncomfortable situation of replacing the benched all-star.

One more thing. The 76ers should involve the players from the '83 team and the '01 team as much as possible. Use them as role models for the current and future players, letting them know how to play "the right way" as Larry Brown would say.

Man that was a loooong post!!!

Generally agree with the first part, but disagree with the second part.

- They have 0 shot at getting Howard
- Turner was a pretty good defender and guys tend to improve defensively as they get more experienced
- Brand's defensive ablities are adequate, but they are diminishing with age. He doesn't have the speed and hops anymore to defend anyone but he is still doing an ok job.

The playoff series vs Miami showed that the only true hole of the team was Center. They can score enough to win with the current players. They lost the series due to bad defensive rebounding. If they can get a center who will solve their rebounding issues, and be at least some kind of defensive presence at the rim, a guy who is able to stop slashers now and then, they will be able to be a top 4 seed in the east at least, possibly even a contender. the big question mark is whether Brand can replicate his production as he grows older and is paired with a defensive minded center.

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South Broad reply to Lonnie Fuller on Dec 10 at 13:04
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Some really good points here and some really, really good points also made.

It was mentioned that one of the other three positions (besides the defensive center and pass-first PG) has to be a clutch scorer, that guy that is counted on to make the critical and crucial shots. IMO, the Sixers haven't had this player in a very long time since Iverson's heyday and it's only made more glaring and magnified in the many close losses this team has become accustomed to over the last 5+ years.

EB may, in fact, be a better Tyrone Hill. But EB is also a completely different Tyrone Hill. Hill didn't need the ball, EB does. Hill did give you great defense, EB's defense isn't anywhere near great at this point in his career. Hill was consistent on the glass nearly every night, EB will have his inevitable night with only 3 defensive boards and zero offensive.

The Iguodala "goat rather than a hero" couldn't be more spot-on. Bobby Jones, yet trying to be (or asked to be) Julius Erving, is such an apt description.

This organization's neglect in acquiring or drafting and developing a defensive big man is baffling, however frustrating it is to us fans. Just downright puzzling when seeing what Moses and the Ratliff/Deke years did for team composition.

The side-shows and distractions-type players suddenly seem to be the norm with this franchise and it's recent drafting, with the exception being Jrue. Wings and guards with no true positions and disinterest in defense; jump shooting bigs soft as Charmin that can't even spell defense.

I'm not even excited or pissed that Thad was re-signed, just kind of numb to it. As Tray quoted above from Matt Moore, though I don't find it "unusually dumb" in a sense, what is this signing going to do going forward? You've got right at 40 million tied up in 3 forwards but what's your plan? You just gave a single-offensive move, not a true 3 or 4 tweener, weak-rebounding shy-away-from-contact bench player 8 million. To ascend you where? A 7 game first round loss instead of 5?

Thad's not what I would call an integral piece due to his lack of defense and rebounding. Opposing coaches of playoff opponents surely spend very little time game planning for him due to his limited repertoire. He's nice and all just because of the mentioned fact that you don't have to call plays for him. But what's Thad really going to win you though? Giving him this kind of money, no matter what the market is currently dictating, reminds me of giving Kenny Thomas his contract. It's just tying up money in a piece that you've probably already seen enough of that's going to get you exactly where?

What required building block is he? He's not even as valuable as Lou Williams is in his role, yet this organization just shelled out 3 million more than Lou makes to keep him. It was expected and bound to happen because if it didn't it wouldn't be the life of a Sixers fan.

Sorry, I disagree with your basic premise. You see the NBA as a team and defensive game. That would be nice, and it allows us to bash selfish AAU style players... but what you are ignoring is that 95% of the time defense and team principles get you nowhere without top level superstars. Your model without superstars gets you to be the Bobcats or Bucks of the past few seasons and that is not the goal.

You site the 2001 Sixers. But IMO that team gets absolutely nowhere without AI. You put in Lou instead of AI and that team struggles to make the playoffs despite their chemistry and defense. You put in Monta instead of AI and they are a 1st round playoff team and nothing more. It is the superstar that matters.

95% of the time you need star(s) as the price of admission to be an upper echalon team. Then the rest of what you mention is what separates the top teams. But unless you have the star, you have zero shot at contention unless you have 5 perfectly matched near stars like the Pistons had (which is probably harder to assemble then getting 1-2 franchise players.)

Lacking defense and team concepts prevents talented teams from winning championships. But without the elite talent you cannot cobble together a contender. The Sixers do not have an elite player on the roster. They need to acquire one and then build from there. That does not mean throw away the quality pieces they have- but it also precludes incremental growth to contention- and everything needs to be focused on getting a superstar (at whatever position you can get) and then focusing on defense and team principles.

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YoungGun13 on Dec 10 at 14:02
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I don't think the Magic would feel it's enough.

Then again, I know people who think the Clippers wouldnt' trade Blake Griffin for Dwight Howard (assuming he signs an extension) - so anything is possible.

Interesting idea, and honestly, if Bynum stayed healthy I'd like it more cause he could be 'the man' he wanted to be in LA in philly

Yeah i don't think the Magic would go for this, but i am also neutral from a Sixers perspective. I don't think Bynum will ever become healthy enough to be considered a cornerstone of a team.

Numerous sources reporting that the 3 way deal for Chris Paul has been resbumitted, the rockets still doing what the rockets did before and changes in what transpires between hornets and lakers though details not readily available

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 16:08
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Odom seems to be out of the deal this time. The league insisted that the Hornets get more young talent and picks; I don't know where any of that will be coming from.

Woj & Stein say Odom is in the deal

And he's still not practicing

Odom might not want to go to New Orleans - but that doesn't seem to bother the Hornets - and they could always flip him somewhere else

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 16:17
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Yeah, you're right, I misread Woj's tweets. This deal doesn't seem to have changed in any significant way. I guess one way to read that is that the teams were told the league would approve a cosmetically altered deal. If the league were genuinely concerned that the Hornets ought to be rebuilding instead of trading for a bushel of veterans, those concerns don't seem to have been addressed.

I believe the changes will involve the lakers taking on a bad salary so they still pay the tax and giving up a (meaningless) first round draft pick - thus placating Daniel Gilbert (and his croneys) wallet

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 17:21
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If true that's incredibly corrupt.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 17:25
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And now they say that at the request of the league Houston's sending even more players than Scola/Martin/Dragic. How much can they give up just for Gasol? Already they're trading away two thirds of the core of the team. I guess this is how New Orleans gets those all-important young players that Stern wants in the deal so badly. The Hornets' future will be so much brighter now with Budinger or Jordan Hill or whoever they're getting.

The knicks have gotten Tyson Chandler

They created cap room by paying the wizards to take turiaf off their hands (literally - they gave them 3 million in cash, max for the year and a 2nd round pick and turiaf)

Had to waive Chauncey Billups but they now have a better frontcourt and a better defense, they need to find a league average point - but still not sure the sixers are better than them yet

If the Sixers are healthy and have good chemistry like last year they might edge out the Knicks. Neither are contenders, but both could be quality playoff teams that are rough outs.

The Knicks are a more sure thing with there combo of stars who will score and upgraded defense and rebounding. While the Sixers are potentially more up and down given their youth and need to have a different guy step up each night. The again Collins is a better coach (IMO.)

I actually do think the Knicks are contenders.

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Ryan F reply to stoned81 on Dec 10 at 21:49
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The Knicks are not contenders. They have zero back court, or bench. No way to move the ball, and little defense. They would of been better off keeping Chauncey.

The great 'team guy' Chauncey Billups being quoted in numerous ways basically saying 'don't claim me - i'm gonna be selfish - it's all about me now'

Seems like worse stuff than Iverson ever said, and no one will touch AI. Should be interesting to see the hypocrisy come out as Billups still gets offers.

Oh - he's not talking about free agency he's talking about being claimed in the amnesty auction

Though Hollinger makes a pretty valid point - if he clears the amnesty waiver he gets his full salary (from the knicks contract) AND MORE - whereas if he's claimed by silent auction he doesn't earn extra money.

Same logic applies though, if Iverson has been blackballed for supposedly not being a team guy and previously saying things like "I won't come off the bench," surely Billups should be told to take a hike with comments like "this is about me now."

I mean he really comes across as a complete arse. He just got paid $14 mil by the Knicks to watch tv on his couch for the past month, and he's whining? What team would want a guy like this? I'd avoid him like the plague.

He'll be starting for the Heat on December 25th I'll bet

Yeah he'd be a good fit there. Just glad we dont have that attitude on the Sixers.

I believe the 'attitude' is all just an act - he just wants to be a free agent - that's all.

Look at how many times this guy has been traded, for a guy of his 'accomplishment' it's kind of interesting.

The 'auction process' is not something that is pro player - it's pro team - it is a restriction to player movement - even if it meant less money - I'd be opposed to it as a player too - it's one more way the league controls where you go - even though your team decided they don't want your contract any more.

He's expressing it badly (which isn't rare for an NBA player) but basically he'd like to be able to choose where he finishes up his career - not exactly a horrible thing.

When a coach is fired, he still gets paid, unless someone else is paying him - I think the same should apply to amensty'd players - period.

Regardless of the auction process, the knicks should only have to pay billups the 'balance' of what he doesn't got from his next team to total 14 million

I see your point, but it's standard with waivers in all sports to get plucked by a team without your consent. You're under contract for the year, part of being under contract is that you can be moved around the league, whether via trade or waivers, even if the player doesn't like it. If he wanted player movement in 2011, he needed to negotiate a shorter contract length back when he signed this deal.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Dec 10 at 16:05
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Unsurprisingly, I have no objection to what Billups is saying. He just doesn't want to play for a bad team, that's all. A player of his stature deserves some respect.

I suppose - but he's gonna get 14 million this year and part of his 'ploy' will net him more money on top of that 14 million

I agree with Hollinger, this is about double dipping into the salary pool

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 16:11
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He sounds genuinely pissed about getting moved all the time to me:

“I just don’t deserve the treatment that I’ve continually gotten,” Billups said. “Historically, these things never happen to the supposed great players and good guys. They continually happen to me, and it gets old. Listen, I feel I’ve been blessed in the game, and I’ve been given back, but these things start to wear on you. But there’s not another guy in history who keeps dealing with this, getting thrown into these things to make the money right. I really believe it’s because people take my kindness and professionalism for weakness. They think I’ll be OK with this. I won’t be OK with this. I’ve saved my money. I may just retire if I don’t get my freedom here."

A little self absorbed and delusional (I'm sure we could quickly name a dozen decent players who have been moved around for financial reasons), but sincere, I think.

He sounds like your typical NBA Player

My god, he's even more of a buffoon than I thought. A pity party for a guy who just got paid $14 mil to sit on his couch! What a baby, Chauncey ought to spend some time with people who have real problems. Unbelievable.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Dec 10 at 17:20
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No that's the whole point, that he'd rather be on that couch than playing for Minnesota. He's not complaining about the couch.

In other words, he wants a handout, rather than having to earn his salary by "working" (playing a game the rest of us play for free). Pathetic.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Dec 10 at 17:28
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That's not true, in other words he'd rather be (a) still playing for the Knicks, (b) playing for some other good team, but if he can't he'd rather not play than for a lousy team. There's nothing objectionable about this at all.

That's my point. If he'd rather earn $14 mil by "not playing" than playing for the Wolves, then he's a huge b****. Wolves should claim him, and then we can all watch with pleasure as Billups holds out and gets paid zero because he got claimed.

No - that's not true

He wants to have a choice where he is going to play - the knicks were dumb enough to pick up his option - they didn't have to.

He's not going to go home and sit on his couch IF he makes it through the amnesty process...he just would rather play in a place that has a shot at winning (like Miami) than in the hinterlands of minnesota tutoring the 5 point guards on their roster

Yeah I know, I was responding to Tray's saying he'd rather be on the couch than playing in Minnesota. Billups should get a clue about the world and be grateful to have an income and a job.

And the reverse could be said about you understanding that Billups does exist in a world that most of us don't understand, will never be a part of and the 'regular' rules don't apply.

Oh I definitely understand that Billups think the rules don't apply to him. It's why I'm bashing him.

That's not the point I'm making

You want the 'normal rules of life' to apply to Billups, and NBA players, and whether you like it or not - they don't. They live by different rules, and getting pissed off about it and saying 'he should be thankful he has a job' demonstrates that you don't recognize the rules are different, at least to me. Billups is guaranteed 14 million dollars, no matter what, whether or not you think that should be the way life works, it is the way his life works. He has every right to want to have a say where he wants to play...the team that he expected to play with said we don't want you any more cause we want to over pay tyson chandler...I'm not saying I'm on his side, I think the whole thing is a mess, but the 'unique economics' of professional sports are not normal and you shouldn't try to apply 'normal' rules of life to them

I totally get the point you are making. But I disagree with your lumping of Billups' attitude here with all other NBA millionaires. Many athletes are jerks, many athletes aren't. But Billups comments here "I'm all about myself" are beyond the pale and make him way worse than even the typical obnoxious athlete. And that's my point. He's not just a "typical NBA jerk," he's worse. Other players in sports have been amnestied/waived and I've never seen anyone whine to the level of Billups here.

Again, all teams need to do is call his bluff to take the power away from him. About 90% of the problems in this league stem from the fact that owners don't have enough balls to utilize the system, and the agents know it. What's the downside to Minny or Sacto putting in a 10% blind bid for Billups? Worst case, he retires and doesn't get a penny of the $14M he's owed this year. Otherwise, you get him for $1.4M for this year. Or maybe the absolute best case is that you get him for $1.4M and he's a great trade chip you can use to get something from a contender.

It sickens me to see these players perverting the system at every opportunity, but not nearly as much as it sickens me to see the owners bend over and take it every single time. Get a fucking backbone already.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 10 at 21:04
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I'd bet Miami would bid 4 or 5.

Miami can't bid anything. They're over the cap.

Woj says Hawes will sign QO from sixers

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/145598123903942656

YEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

EB
HAWES
BIG KOLA

What a monster front line. Teams will not be messing with the Sixers this year. Attitude, size, mean streak. We are ready to rumble!

Mike Bibby - one year - Knicks

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski Rockets will have changes to their part of proposed 3-way deal, league sources tell Y! Sports. They'd be sending more players to Hornets.

I really hope that Howard gets traded to Chicago or signs with NJ. It would be hilarious to see LA eventually get screwed over.


Houston is sending more players to NOH? WTF? Is LA taking back any bad contracts? They can't get Chris Paul AND get some cap relief. Just unfair.

After paul LA gives up the next two best players in the trade

They get obnoxiously small and like you said, if they don't get Howard, which seems unlikely, this won't help them short term (though long term, they have the 'next face' of the franchise when Kobe leaves probably)

If no other trade for the lakers goes down, they are much worse after the trade than before it...

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 18:17
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There's Bynum, who is the other "good" player?

What are you talking about?

Bynum isn't in the trade

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 18:25
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Sorry when you said "After paul LA gives up the next two best players in the trade" I thought you meant that LA would give up their other two good players for Howard. Didn't know who the other two good players were.

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Tray reply to Stan on Dec 10 at 21:03
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Gasol and Odom.

The celtics did over pay jeff green (9 mil reportedly) but only for one year...weird

It's a logical move actually. The Celtics will have cap room next season, half of their team is on expirings so they wanted to keep the flexibility. Similar to the Mavs situation.

Sorry, I meant from Greens point of view - sure it's a lot - but one year - you think he could have gotten more security on the open market (long term)

Maybe he thinks he can prove he is worth more than he was getting this year and will sign a bigger contract next summer. Honestly. i have no idea why signing 1year deals is so rare. I understand the injury risks but the players are not giving themselves a chance at more.

Security is a pretty important thing to a lot of people

@tmoorepburbs: #Sixers scrimmage: Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Brand and Vucevic (starters) vs. Williams, Meeks, Young, Brackins and Speights.

interesting that vucevic is playing with the starting 5

Well Hawes isn't in camp yet. Certainly Vucevic and Hawes will be the top 2 centers. I'd think Hawes will begin the season as the starter and Big Kola could potentially take over at some point.

If Vucevic starts instead of Hawes on December 25th i'd look at that as a major positive. That would mean that Vucevic has passed Hawes on the depth chart already and that exceeds the expectations imo.

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski Dwight Howard has requested that the Orlando Magic trade him to the New Jersey Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.

I heard one report today (forget from whom) that Dwight Howard was uncomfortable about a move to the Lakers because of the whole 'Shaq comparison' thing

Does Jeff Green think he can be a 10+ million per year player? Doesn't make sense. I would have taken an 8 million per season deal from some stupid GM.

I think Evan Turner is better prospect than whatever crap New Orleans is getting. I say we trade him, Nocioni, Speights and a first round draft pick for Paul. We then trade Jrue, Thaddeus, and Lou for Howard.

Howard
Brand
Iguodala
Meeks
Paul

That lineup should be good enough to put us in the ECF, right? If Paul and Howard decide to leave, screw em'. They can lose 40 million over the course of their lifetimes. We can also rebuild and start from scratch.

That lineup will win the title imo, that team on paper is better than everybody.

The problem is it's a dream lineup. Turner + 1st rounder is nowhere near what the Lakers are offering (which is essentially Gasol + Odom, even though Gasol is than flipped to the Rockets). And i'm not sure Jrue+Young will get Howard. Teams always resist trading big for small for some reason. This Lakers Hornets trade is indeed a precedan in more ways than we think.

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Stan reply to Xsago on Dec 10 at 19:26
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Martin and Scola are older players and they have huge contracts. I don't know why NOH wants to move laterally instead of rebuilding. I also don't understand Houston's rationale for this trade. Whatever.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Dec 10 at 21:02
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I wouldn't pick that team to win the Finals. No depth. If LA doesn't get Paul, I think they'd be just as much of a favorite as ever.

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deepsixersuede on Dec 10 at 19:19
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If the sixers moved L.Will. for a draft pick and cap space and bid on Billups [2 years/10 million] how much better would they be?

Better for removing LouWill (addition by subtraction), worse for adding Billups (horrid personality and total me-first attitude that does not fit on this team). Cutting LouWill and adding nothing would be a better decision IMO.

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deepsixersuede reply to stoned81 on Dec 10 at 19:25
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I think he is a winner and solid pro and he and Jrue could coexist in the backcourt and him, Jrue and Turner could be interchangeable.

My whole point is on a team needing talent, a chance to grab an amnestied player on the cheap without signing him beyond Elton's deal makes sense to me.

It would. A 25% bid is affordable and makes him good trade bait.


I just don't understand NY's logic. They elected to pick the option on his salary only to waive him in a few days? wow. That is 14 million dollars that went down the drain. I can't imagine how someone wouldn't get fired over this in any other profession.

There was a buyout figure, so declining the option wouldn't have cleared enough cap space to overpay Chandler.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 10 at 19:46
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Makes sense. That move really confused me.

It wouldn't help. Lou is here for instant offense. Billups is a PG and we have a capable one in Jrue. I know Lou can be frustrating but he important to this team. I don't think Billups can fill his role.

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deepsixersuede reply to Stan on Dec 10 at 19:32
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I think Billups would be good for Turner and Jrue and Turner would thrive in Lou's role [ball in his hands]. This isn't a diss of Lou but to clear capspace he would have to be moved.

I have always liked Billups and feel our young guys being around him would be a good thing. A good mix of young and old may win this team another round in the playoffs and he may put some fans in the seats also.

Lou is instant offense. Turner isn't someone who can plug into the game for 15 minutes and expect 10 points.

Trading Lou wouldn't get us below the cap, and you can only bid if you have cap space, not if you're over the cap and under the tax.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 10 at 19:52
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If they renounced Hawes could they have?

why are the magic re-signing J-Rich? Seems pointless since there losing howard

Jason Richardson has reached agreement on a four year, $25M deal with the Orlando Magic, league source tells Y! Sports.

Otis Smith, in his consistently misguided way, is trying to convince Howard to stay. Same with the Big Baby trade. Dumb moves that are only digging the post-Howard hole deeper for Orlando.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 10 at 19:55
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Good. That means Howard stays in Orlando and can't go to LA. Howard in NJ is the lesser of the two possible evils.

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Tray reply to Stan on Dec 10 at 20:58
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He can still go to LA. Even if Howard doesn't want to sign there right now, LA could decide to go all-out for a title this year and hope that Howard resigns there. Not sure why you'd want Deron/Howard in our conference or division.

He could go anywhere he wants - especially if he's willing to take less money to win

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 21:00
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I mean, he could still be traded to LA, even if he's requesting a trade to the Nets.

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 10 at 21:21
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Yea but Otis is adding more salary to his payroll. This leads me to believe that Otis believes he can still convince Howard to stay.

And yes, I would rather see the Nets win a championship than see the Lakers be dominant for another decade.

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deepsixersuede reply to sixerfan1220 on Dec 10 at 19:46
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They want him to stay and Big Baby and J.Rich. are 2 moves in the right direction, I guess. Plus Arenas is gone.

They really aren't moves in the right direction, they aren't moves that make the magic on the level of the bulls or the heat

David Thorpe said (paraphrasing) on twitter - it's not about big market versus small market - it's about smart vs not smart

Otis Smith is not smart

Orlando is headed towards a Cleveland type mess - and they have no one to blame but themselves

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 10 at 21:29
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But Big Baby is young and JRich is a movable contract. Those contracts aren't horrible.

It's not similar to the way Cleveland traded for Antwan Jamison's awful contract just to keep Lebron.

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Gosixers on Dec 10 at 20:21
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According to larry coon amnesty layers claimed by auction can't be traded until July 1. After the season

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Tom Moore on Dec 10 at 22:02
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Sixers story (with video interviews of Young, Williams and Collins):

Young 'looks like he didn't have any time off' in first camp practice

http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/young-impresses-in-return/article_ca9361a1-342f-5595-862a-d9a27c5a3deb.html

The Young contract isn't horrible and along with Williams we again have one of the best benches in the league.

The contract could have been a lot worse and the 5th year is a player option anyway. So it's more 4 years 33 million.

That's pretty good considering Thad is only 23 and Iggy was 23 when he first really broke out.

Now lets all hope Nikola shows he has actual basketballing skillz.

It's only 4/33 if he meets expectations. I hate player options, have no idea why teams continue to give them out.

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Tom Moore on Dec 10 at 23:16
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Thad Young video on returning:

http://bit.ly/vVnNj1

Gotta love that he is talking about the playoffs, getting out of the first round, contending, championship. You gotta have lofty goals in order to succeed.

Hey Brian, no new post for #00 coming back?


@spencerhawes00 (Spencer Hawes)
Flying back to philly, can't wait to get back with my teammates and start this season off right. #showyaluv
7 hours ago

and/or this from Kate yesterday:


@deepsixer3 (Kate Fagan)
And to answer an earlier question: Yes, Lavoy Allen stands a chance to make #Sixers roster. In fact, I expect he will.

also for those who missed seeing these after his deal was announced:

@yungsmoove21 (Thad Young)
Thanks to each and every one of my fans family friends teammates and coaches who have been there step of way ... I appreciate you guys

@yungsmoove21 (Thad Young)
Promise to continue to play hard with pride and all my heart ... I love Philly

Yeah, I'd rather not comment on paying Hawes about 4x what he's worth. Nor the fact that I'm actually going to pay money for League Pass to see him play.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 0:07
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Look on the bright side.. At least it wasn't a multi-year extension.

CP3 to LAL seems dead. Lakers just traded Odom to Dallas. Dallas is using their trade exception (from the Chandler trade).

Just some wild speculation that this could mean they're going after Howard, but who knows.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 0:06
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Dallas? Do you have a link? I couldn't find news of this online

It's all over Twitter. Haven't seen a story yet. No details, just that he's going to Dallas into the trade exception.

Only 3 reasons I can see for the Lakers to do this:

1. Odom was seriously pissed about the trade rumor and they didn't want to deal with the headache.

2. They plan to use the trade exception as part of another deal (possibly for Dwight Howard)

3. Both 1 & 2.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 0:12
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3. This paves the way for a 3-way trade between Philadelphia, New Orleans, and Orlando :)

1 is probably definitely part of it, if you saw the quotes from Odom after the first trade falling through. Seemed to me like Odom was done playing for the Lakers, no matter if the Paul deal was completed or not.

OK, so here's the question. If the lakers trade Pau and Bynum to get Howard, they'll be left with Fisher, Kobe, Richardson, Hedo and Howard. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that Howard would re-sign there, given they have absolutely zero young talent and Kobe is nearing the end. Ah, this blows.

The only good thing about Howard possibly going to LA is that it could open up a slot for the Sixers to be "relevant" in the East (at least at some point.)

I don't think CP3 or Deron on there own make a team defacto better than the Sixers. But Howard would in almost every case.

Richardson can't be in the deal after all.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 1:28
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Will they have to trade Pau and Bynum? What's wrong with just Bynum?

I need to look at the payrolls, but my initial thought is they need to send a ton of salary they don't really have because they need to take hedo back and no way Orlando wants artest

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 1:31
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That's what the exception's for. I understand it's a very large exception.

odom to dallas. does this mean howard to nj? billy king is still fucking us over, maybe hes acquiring howard to trade for willie green and dbert

A quick stat that concerns me:

Over the last 3 years the percentage of shots Igodala has taken in the lane has gone down each of the past 3 seasons:

08/09: 36%
09/10: 29%
10/11: 22%

I raise this becasue I am hoping we see a fresher and healthier Iguodala this year. If that translates into more shots in the lane then the whole team will benefit.

Cross your fingers

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Tom Moore reply to tk76 on Dec 11 at 9:35
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Interesting. Where did you get the figures? Thanks.

I know about this site:

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andre%20Iguodala

It doesn't give exactly the same type of statistic though. But the shots at the rim have visibly gone down over the past three seasons...

82games.com. You can go back multiple seasons.

For last year: http://www.82games.com/1011/10PHI6.HTM

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Elf reply to tk76 on Dec 11 at 10:51
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I get what you saying, the team need more of the healthier and in attack mode Iggy but C´mon cut him some slack..
Who was his PG in those years ?
You go from Andre Miller settin him up Oops and lay ups, to the Boss first year as starter and at PG and EFJ magnificient coaching and then Jrue´s first year as starter PG, starting the offense for the point foward role and also Iggy was injured from the beggining with the early tendon thing then the knee..

Fair points. But most people would agree that Iguodala would should not settle for jumpers as much as he does. And being worn down leads players to prefer to take jumpers.

Meanwhile:

"The NBA has taken complete control of the Hornets front office and left general manager Dell Demps and coach Monty Williams without a deal that they wanted to make for Paul. The Hornets have been left in an impossible predicament by commissioner David Stern, who has positioned himself as basketball czar of the Hornets.

In his desire to keep the All-Star point guard on the roster to maximize the league’s selling price of the team to potential owners, Stern has shot down two deals to send Paul to the Lakers. Now, teams are leery of entering into trade talks for Paul with the Hornets basketball executives, and this could collectively cripple the franchise’s ability to get maximum value for Paul.

The Hornets front office and coaching staff is beyond devastated over this deal falling apart on Saturday night. They’re three days into training camp, and they don’t have a legitimate NBA team to put on the floor."

This is just psychotic. Paul is leaving that team; does he think the franchise's value rises and falls depending on whether they get Martin/Scola vs. what the Clippers have to offer? If he accepts a deal with another team, the whole world will think he pulled this stunt just to screw the Lakers.

In my opinion the trade wasn't good for NOH. They get saddled with some big contracts and would be a mediocre team. Stern's job as commissioner is akin to an owner. When a GM presents a trade to an owner and the owner doesn't like it, the owner can veto it. Same thing here.

Now obviously there is some conflict of interest in this case, but that's what happens when you're still searching for a buyer. Baseball had the same issue, but the Expos didn't have any star players so no one paid attention. And it's sort of ironic, Stern has always been bashed for wanting the stars to go to the big markets. Now he's done the opposite, and he's getting bashed again. Dude can't win.

They'll figure out a way to trade Paul for young players and draft picks, which will be better than the deal LAL/HOU offered. Why is there anything wrong with that?

In the opinion of the folks who run the hornets, it was a good trade - the gma nd the coaches liked the trade - that should be what matters

Stern runs the Hornets.

whether or not the league was right in nixing the chris paul trade, this whole thang is a motherfucking fiasco. david stern has more poo on his face, makes me wanna holla, makes me wanna be a college balla fan. rock chalk jayhawk.

also spencer hawes is soft like twinkie filling

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Tom Moore on Dec 11 at 9:37
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Tom Moore reply to Tom Moore on Dec 11 at 9:38
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oops - should be "internal" growth

One source close to the process told ESPN.com after the Lakers' withdrawal that the Clippers have emerged as an "early front-runner" to trade for the All-Star point guard.

The LAL-DAL trade is a huge steal for the Mavs. They lose Chandler but get Odom. If they can persuade Dalambert to sign a one year deal (unlikely after they traded the TPE) they will definitely be in the running for a championship again this year.

Btw Broussard reporting the NBPA has warned the league that CP3 has to be traded by Monday or they will pursue litigation with collusion as a claim.

I think things are really getting out of hand. Too much other stuff, too little basketball...

I think the NBPA would lose. This is a unique situation, with the league owning the team. Not to mention that by NBA rules, the commissioner can veto ANY trade, not just a trade by a team the league owns. When a player signs an NBA contract, he submits to these rules under the CBA. Collective bargaining trumps antitrust laws (which is why the NBA draft isn't illegal).

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 12:08
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So, Jason Richardson gets a four year deal just a tad over 6 mil a year. Mbah a Moute gets a four year deal just shy of 5 mil a year.

Why are they giving Thad a five year deal at around 8 mil a year? But more importantly bidding against no one but themselves for what can be considered a middle tier free agent at the moment.

He wasn't that important of a guy to not allow the market to set the rate and then decide what to do with him then.

ugh, feels like Stefanski is still here after seeing this move

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deepsixersuede reply to eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 12:15
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It seems to me like Collins wanted everybody in camp as soon as possible and that outweighed paying a little more in salary. I hope it doesn't bite them in the ass later.

Does this pass league scrutiny; Kamen [expiring],Bledsoe,Aminu,T.Thompkins and the Minnesota pick for C.Paul?

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eddies' heady's reply to deepsixersuede on Dec 11 at 12:23
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It might pass league scrutiny, but I sure as heck hope it doesn't pass NOH's management scrutiny.

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deepsixersuede reply to eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 12:29
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Caproom plus 4 #1 picks, plus 2 top ten picks in a supposedly strong draft because they will suck should mean instant rebuild.

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eddies' heady's reply to deepsixersuede on Dec 11 at 12:35
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eh, 3 of those 4 #1 picks don't do anything for me because they're not stars. Paul is a star. Caproom is nice and all but who's going to want to go there without Paul?

J-Rich is 30 years old. Thad is 23.

Mbah a Moute averaged 6.7 ppg in 27 minutes. Thad averaged 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes.

Any questions?

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Dec 11 at 12:30
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Counter - J-Rich averaged 4.1 boards a game last year - from a GUARD position

Mbah a Moute averaged 5.3 rebounds a game last year

Thad averaged 5.3 boards a game

Age and pts a game aren't the sole barometers here are they?

Fair points, and no age and points are not the only barometers. But they tend to be extra important when it comes to market value in free agency, which was the question I was answering (whether the Sixers paid above market value).

I wanted to sign Thad for less, but after seeing what other players went for, I think his contract was reasonable. They'll always be able to trade him, so I think it's fine.

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Dec 11 at 14:28
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But I don't see how we can ascertain what his market value is when the organization never allowed his value to be set. They bit the bullet way early in free agency. Restricted free agency should be used to the team the player's restricted to's advantage, and in this case it wasn't.

The counter argument - whether you agree with it or not - is that a lot of players were being offered rather big deals (Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan) and that Young who was perceived as a big free agent (whether you agree or not) might have ended up making more than what the sixers paid for him...I don't know if I agree or disagree, but I must admit Thaddeus Young got a less money than I thought he would.

I agree with this. It may wind up being at, below, or above market value, but there was no way for them to tell. They gambled one way, I would've preferred they gamble the other, but at the end of the day, the number is only slightly higher than my personal valuation, so I'm not going to say they blew it.

Mbah a Moute averaged 6.7 ppg in 27 minutes. Thad averaged 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes.

Yeah, I have a question. Do you even care about defense or rebounding?

Even still, I don't think either of them have more value around the league than Thad.

Maybe, maybe not, but if the only valuation is points per game than I'm just lost anyway :)

Mbah a Moute is a defensive specialist, a 'one note' kind of guy, Thaddeus Young is an offense specialist (to me), also a 'one note' kind of guy but worth twice as much...that would indicate (to me) one of the things wrong with the NBA personally

Defense is important, and I didn't want Thad to get as much money as he did. I was answering a question about market value. Thad had much higher market value than a boute because Thad can score.

If Rod Thorns approach to free agency is as simplistic as yours, the sixers are doomed

It's not "my" approach. I said I'd have offered Thad less. The question I was answering was about market value, not "stoned81's value." I think Thad got market value.

Aldridge saying on twitter that if the nuggets don't re-sign Nene, Speights is their back up plan

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 11 at 12:25
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Would Collins attempt to get C.Anderson? Spieghts and Brackins? Probably take a 2nd round pick back though.

oh god, please no.

I'd like to get a hold of Anderson. Wouldn't be a franchise changing addition but the guy shoots a high %, plays D, rebounds, and blocks shots.

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Ryan F reply to Ryan F on Dec 11 at 15:44
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Eh. Didn't realize he had 3 more years at around 5 ml per. Maybe not.

Ask for Jordan Hamilton

this does not surprise me at all

@tmoorepburbs
Tom Moore #Sixers Speights appears to be only player not in good shape.

The perception here seems to be that Doug Collins is in charge of building this team. If it's true the sixers are worse off than I thought

I'm sure Collins would not have wanted to trade Iggy, and they almost did last summer. And I can't imagine the new ownership gave Collins more power than he had before. I'd guess that it's just a misperception among the commenters here.

Yeah - except the reports are that the new ownership group wanted the Iguodala trade stopped

I want collins to have no input on the building of the roster long term mostly because history says he isn't here long term

Right, but that doesn't mean they've given the reins to Collins, it just means they want the control. It's possible they've turned it all over to Collins, but I doubt it. I think they want to see how things play out, right now the best decision is to wait. We have zero chance of getting Howard and Paul (they won't sign extensions here so trading assets for them would be ridiculous), so our best move is to ride out the current roster and see how things play out.

We have zero chance of getting Howard and Paul (they won't sign extensions here so trading assets for them would be ridiculous), so our best move is to ride out the current roster and see how things play out.

That's short sighted and a matter of opinion. Can't get Chris Paul or Dwight Howard so maintain the march towards mediocrity? That's the theory you want to espouse? Don't make any moves to improve the roster AT ALL because you can't get Paul or Howard, instead stay put and take your first round playoff whipping and money?

Good plan...assuming you don't want to have any hope of winning a title

Personally, I'd do whatever it takes to get Howard at this point, short of trading Jeue. Then I'd give him a year under Collins, playing with Jrue, then I'd use the system to sell him on staying in Philly. He's going to have to take $40M less to leave and I'm not playing any sign and trade games, period. If he still walks, I lick my wounds and really rebuild with a high draft pick, cap space and Jrue.

How do you trade for Dwight Howard and get a really high draft pick? Unless that really high draft pick is 2013

And I still believe you don't get Howard from the Magic without including Jrue Holiday

The year after he leaves you get the lottery pick. And if Jrue has to be in the deal, then I guess iguodala can't be, and you're really starting from scratch if he walks, which I'd be fine with. Take the shot.

If you keep Iguodala and believe reports of Howards desires, you might have a better chance of keeping him.

Iguodala, Brand, Howard is one of the better 3/4/5's in the east (if not the league) I'd think.

I still think the problem is the combination of assets needed to interest Orlando (and make a deal work) means Howard is guaranteed to leave.

I'm not sure the sixers have a combo of assets to interest Orlando at all due to the fact that most reported discussions involve not just Howard but taking on Hedo's albatross as well.

You can do it you amnesty Brand.

If you amnesty him. Fuckin iPhone.

Yeah, blame the technology not the user :)

I got your point about amnestying Brand, but like I said, don't think it makes Brand as happy to be in Philly, which to me matters, I'm not blowing it all up to just hope Brand re-signs and then be left with nothing, I would rather blow it up - not get Brand but facilitate the move and get building assets back...I think it comes down to my point of view seems different than most :)

Yeah, but that makes the sixers less good next season and howard isn't happy enough to stay.

I mean Howard claims not to want to get to the clippers because he woudln't fit with griffin (hence my trade idea that is ridiculed) but I think Howard fits with Brand, and he wants (reportedly) to work with Iguodala.

To me you don't just trade for howard and 'hope' - you trade for howard thinking you've left enough pieces to make him want to stay.

PG, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand, Howard (assuming that Brand is what he was last year) - that's a starting five that makes me confident. How about you?

With Thad coming off the bench, and maybe Lou. Depending on the PG that team could compete with MIA and CHI.

That was my thinking

Now remove brand from that roster

Do they still contend with mia and chi seriously?

With Hedo and Rhad splitting time at the four? ;)

Yeah even you don't buy that (Yeah I'm figuring Rhad meant Thad :)

My only iphone advice for anyone is turn it sideways - the keyboard gets slightly larger and it helps

I can see your theory, and it's successful if Howard stays, but the risk-reward calculation doesn't work for me. I don't see why Orlando would want Brand or Iggy's contracts if they aren't keeping Howard, so they're going to want Turner and Jrue and draft picks, right? I can't see any way we get Howard without giving up those two (or at least Jrue). And then if Howard leaves, we've crushed our future and our present.

I also see it as Howard really only leaving $20M on the table by leaving as a free agent, not $40M. It's just the raises that he can't recoup. Most likely, 4 years from now he'll still be getting a max contract, so he'll get that $20M in the 5th year as part of his next deal. I think the chances of him staying on a gutted team in Philadelphia for an extra $20M, as opposed to joining D-Will in Brooklyn, are virtually zero.

I mean sure, if they'll take Turner and Thad for Howard, obviously we'll all do it, but I don't think that's possible at all.

IMO if you want to realistically talk Howard in Philly, there's no way Jrue's not involved. Nor do I think Jrue's presence does anything to entice Dwight to stay here long term. I think Iguodala has much more of an effect.

See, you say this about Collins down here, but up above you say Demps and Monty Williams should have complete control over the Hornets. You don't get more lame duck than head coach and GM of a franchise that's owned by the league, and Demps/Williams are really only worried about their resumes right now (win as many games as possible before the sale and they get replaced).

Yes, I think Demps if he's the GM of the team should have final say in trades - I don't want the coach being the FINAL arbiter of a roster - I'm not Bill Freaking Parcells

If you trust Demps to build your team you let him - if you don't you - don't

You don't let Monty Williams OR Doug Collins build a roster no...

I'm sorry if you continue to think that the trade the hornets originally made was terrible, but the only people who seem to agree with you are dan gilbert and david stern.

I trust Thorn more than I trust collins, Collins history indicates a short stay - so why the HELL do i want him building a long term roster - he won't be here

But it seems it's irrelevant cause new ownership so far is just like old ownership - and that's going to make people happy - cause losing in the first round seems to be enough

Forget what I think of the trade, the point here is that most GMs don't have autonomous authority to make moves, especially when the move results in taking on a ton of payroll. In fact, I'd say there isn't a GM in the league who could make atrade like that without an OK from ownership. I'm sure there are a number of owners who would've given their gm the green light, whether it was smart or not, but that's not really the issue for the purposes of this argument.

The issue actually was the coach

I notice you didn't say much about the coach having a final say in the trade

The original issue that is

Based on the implication that collins 'desires' would have some influence on the sixers jumping the market and possibly over paying Thaddeus Young

More so based on the constant commenting how it's all about Collins when the roster is being built - which is hopefully nto something the sixers are doing.

You brought Monty Williams into it to bolster your argument. Anyway, I agree Collins shouldn't be making personnel decisions. He should have input, sure, but not final say.

That was my mistake - you're right

I don't buy the bill parcells grocery shopping metaphor - GM's and Coaches (I believe, and depending on ownerships) have different agendas sometimes. I believe for instance that if the sixers new ownership took on a rebuilding plan (which obviously I think they do) Collins would have apoplexy

What the Hornets where offered for Paul was not a bad package, but was a horrible deal for the Hornets. That deal was completely the opposite of what they should get for their own good.

seems like david west is now headed to the pacers and the pacers are trying to trade for OJ mayo

Sixers are still a playoff team in the east if that happens. Looking at the teams that missed last year, none of them have really improved unless you believe Bogut stays healthy that makes the bucks better but not necessarily '6 games (get to 500)' better to me :)

2 years, 20 million for west

I don't see West as much of a difference maker. Hate his game.

Was it the 20.4 PER, the .152 WS/48, or the 55.8% true shooting percentage you despite so much?

A long term deal would have been a mistake, but a 2 year/$20m is more than fair IMO. He's efficiently productive, even if he's not a complete player.

Does this mean that KG will play center?

He's signing with the Pacers, so I'm not sure its effect on KG.

But in his defense, KG will be playing center this year according to doc ;)

As you know, Brian hates big men who can shoot, even if they're really great at it, unless they're Dirk Nowitzki. In a Brian-run NBA, you would actually get negative points for making a mid-range shot.

Nah, you'd just have to run suicides every time you took one with more than 8 seconds left on the shot clock.

Mostly it's all the long twos and the light defensive rebounding. Not a big fan of jump shooting fours who don't stretch it out to the three-point line.

That doesn't seem so bad, maybe a little much considering his last season, but short lived, and expires when the 'new' CBA rules really go into effect, could be on purpose or just coincidence.

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Tom Moore on Dec 11 at 15:13
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Sunday video interview: New owner Josh Harris on listening to the fans, mascot voting and the new in-game presentation

http://t.co/1Vo75oQk

wow, i dont think gasol is worth the max

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski Houston's close to signing Marc Gasol to max-contract offer sheet, working a sign-and-trade with Memphis to secure him, league sources say.

Two things could be at play

1. Bad emotional reaction over NOT completing the Lakers deal
2. When you want a restricted free agent you must do something to make matching non-palatable to the parent team, and it seems that Memphis would rather facilitate Marc Gasol maximizing his earnings than match a 'max' offer sheet (which is less money) from Houston.

Latest leaks say that Memphis has already offered Gasol more than any team can offer. Gasol just hasn't accepted it yet. There is nothing of the rumored S&T.

As of an hour ago, most the pundits on twitter indicated that the rockets were trying to do something

Maybe that's changed since then, but to do a max S&T the rockets would need to waive thabeet

If the Grizz are willing to offer him the max then Memphis is in the clear, but if not, who knows.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 11 at 20:05
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Too much money, but adding a defensive center to that team could make them pretty good.

Yeah that's insane. Makes the Thad deal even better. A max for slow and fat Marc Gasol is an albatross like no other.

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Raro reply to stoned81 on Dec 11 at 22:31
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Slow and fat Gasol? That's funny coming from the biggest hawes fan I know...

Hawes got a 1 year, $4M deal. He could weigh 600 pounds and still be a better deal than Gasol at $4 years, $55M.

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Sixers_Fan92 on Dec 11 at 15:37
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Evan's jumper looks a lot better. Guide hand doesnt look so awkward

http://www.nba.com/sixers/video/2011/12/02/111202turnermov-1922988/index.html

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Tom Moore reply to Sixers_Fan92 on Dec 11 at 15:40
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Turner Sunday: "I definitely focused on (my jumper in the offseason). At the same time, I'll never be a flat-out jump shooter.'

Jumper looked better in person the last two days, but still not totally fluid.

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Sixers_Fan92 reply to Tom Moore on Dec 11 at 15:44
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Glad he's showing improvement and some dedication to know what his one glaring weakness is and work on it. Not a fluid jumper but looks better.

Tom- What's your overall impression of Turner been the last couple of days. Improved? The same? To early to tell?

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Tom Moore on Dec 11 at 15:41
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Sunday blog: New owner Josh Harris 'amazed at the (fans') intensity' about new mascot

bit.ly/uowaZM

Interesting that they'll have the new "game experience" ready for the home opener on Jan. 6...anyone else planning to be there yet?

Jamie Maggio was in Miami. Good- time to get my stalking gear

The Warriors rescinded their qualifying offer to Reggie Williams.

What do you think about those minor moves to complete the roster ?
First as Brian already sugested sign the now unrestricted FA Reggie Wiliams for long range shooting;
Second trade Speights plus second round pick to Phoenix for Robin Lopez and form the mighty Voltrom at 5 spot with Lopez the defensive one, Hawes the wastefull one and Big Nik for the offensive one. Lopez next year is a restrict FA so we could resign him or not and get out of his contract plus he would be our best defensive big in the moment he walks past thru the doors of Wells Fargo

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Tray reply to Elf on Dec 11 at 20:04
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Would Phoenix do that? Why would they?

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Elf reply to Tray on Dec 11 at 20:24
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Lopez has lost his spot for Gortat for good and I read some articles from Phoenix the they may look to relocate him because his pouting about his old spot at the end of last season, Steve Nash is one of the few that can make Speights look good and the Phoenix staff could get Mareese in shape as they did with Turkoglu. By the way Suns like players that are all offense no D. Throw some money in for the greedy Sarver and they would bite

So accord to Broussard, this is the package New Orleans wants from the Clips, and I think they should do it.

Eric Gordon, Bledsoe, Aminu, Kaman, 2 first round picks (probably Minny's pick and a future Clips pick).

That's the type of package they should be looking for, and you know what, the Clips should be willing to pay it.

And seriously, the Clips should do this, and if they do, how much better is that deal for the Hornets than the Lakers deal?

Agreed. This is way better for the Hornets, exactly why I agreed with Stern's decision. "Best interest of the Hornets" is his job as commissioner, I really can't for the life of me understand how people were saying he wasn't doing what's in the best interest of the Hornets by rejecting that garbage trade.

That argument never held water for me. I think the problem a lot of people had was that the way he did it made it seem like this was a sour grapes move by the owners to keep him away from the Lakers, and/or Stern putting his foot down that another superstar wouldn't dictate where he was going via trade.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 22:52
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Yeah, because that's what Cuban said it was about, what Gilbert's letter seemed to indicate it was about, and what sources told fairly accurate reporters like Wojnarowski it was about.

I'm not really arguing w/ you here. My point was always that the Lakers/Houston package was a shit deal for the Hornets considering the position they'd be in after getting rid of CP3. It didn't make any sense to put together that team and take on money to make that deal. A lot of people were talking about what a great package it was for them, and I consistently said it was garbage.

I'm not really arguing what his motivation was, all I'm saying is that the package was clearly shit in its original form, and I hope no owner would allow that to go down.

Personally, I could care less if Stern just wanted to say fuck you CP3, I'm not letting you go to the Lakers. I just wish one fucking owner would have enough balls to make one of these players take significantly less money to go where they wanted, because it hasn't happened yet. Even big mouth Dan Gilbert caved and did a sign-and-trade for LeBron, which netted him a whopping trade exception he'll never use. Moron.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 23:05
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Okay, Dan Gilbert has no use for that exception. But if a player comes to you a year out and says he's going, it would be malpractice to keep him just to punish the guy and make him give up money. Besides which, Paul is doing the right thing here. He has no chance of winning in New Orleans and wants to win, like LeBron, like Howard, and there's no reason that I can see for owners to stand up to them or make them choose between money and winning. I don't really get your constant anti-player, pro failing small-market team sentiment.

It's simple. Under the CBA, which the players agreed to, teams have an advantage in keeping their own talent. What should be a big advantage. And players have the right to switch teams, but only if they're willing to give up a significant amount of money to do so. If I had a player telling me they weren't going to re-sign, I'd look for a deal like the one the Clippers are offering, or what the Nets offered for Deron Williams. If it materialized, I'd take it. If it doesn't, then I'm going to call the player's bluff, because I've yet to see one superstar take significantly less money (and more importantly, less years) to go to another team when push comes to shove. I'd leverage the system to my advantage and if the player is really willing to take less money, then so be it.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 23:18
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So if you're Stern trying to preserve the value of the franchise, you would keep Paul if the Clippers deal doesn't materialize, and bet on him not walking. I think Paul's the sort of player who would play on a good team for half the money, and that you'd end up with nothing, which would be a lot less salable than a team with the potential to win 46 games or so. Howard, you might have a better chance.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 21:08
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Nah, that trade is too much.

Gordon is a top flight SG in a league that is secretly short of them. Sure that is great for the hornets but it is stupid for the clippers.

Keep Gordon, Jordon, Aminu, and Blake together and just keep building toward the future. That team is super young.

It was really stupid for them to sign Butler to take minutes from Aminu.

Paul has only one knee. He isn't 100 percent. Probably never will be. Does that mean he isn't arguably the best PG in the league, no, but it does mean he isn't worth throwing away your entire young team you were building for.

Keep Gordon, Jordon, Aminu, and Blake together and just keep building toward the future. That team is super young.


Sigh, while I'm a proponent of rebuilding it's like people who get upset when baseball teams trade prospects to obtain one of the best in the game today...there's might be and then there's IS...paul IS - your guys are all 'might bes'

So build toward 50 wins and a first-round exit or get the best PG in the league and win 50 in your sleep. You take the former. Makes sense.