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There Is An "I" In Quit

Serious lack of talent both on the floor and in the coaching box.

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Spencer for hire on Apr 17 at 7:41
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Panic and quit, two words that define this teams season finish.

The coach , when most teams are adding players or extending their rotations, decides to cut his down to 8 players.

Lavoy, Vuce and definitely Sam Young have had their moments. Decide to play one of Battle, Vuce or Allen every night up front and Elton and Thad won't be gassed.

Which leads to the quit. Most of the players are probably tired of busting their ass defensively without any help in the paint. The coach could have added a perimeter defender, S.Young, to instill more energy and grit but no , lets keep putting Jody out there when he can't hit the side of a barn.

...so when was the last time a team was 11 over .500 at any point in a season and then went below it in the same season? Have there been any epic 1964-style collapses quite like this in recent NBA history?

and is DC coaching the way he has been because he knonwns this is it for his career? Can't say I blame the guy for trying to get as many Ws as possible...but the way he's trying to do it sure makes you wonder...

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Sharone Wright on Apr 17 at 8:42
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The reporters didn't ask him about the 7 man rotation after the game either. A few games ago, DC snapped when someone asked him about an 8 man rotation, so I guess they are afraid to challenge him on that issue.

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Sharone Wright reply to Sharone Wright on Apr 17 at 8:44
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when I say "snapped" I meant to say snapped as in snapped at him, not snapped as in "lost it." Great writing by me.

The legend of "Wonder Bread Plato" Collins is fraying. Sermons have lost their zip. Disciples turn and walk. Even Jodie Meeks is becoming downcast. Evan Turner is doing cartwheels in his living room. What a short, strange trip it's been.

Ryan "There's No Cryin' In Basketball" Anderson & Friends shredded Sixers AGAIN with purposeful play and impressive marksmanship. Career understudy Earl Clark rose to the occasion of limelight. Jameer did Chester proud once more. Dwight, Hedo & "Big Baby" - who needs 'em?

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Sharone Wright reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 17 at 9:45
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ET doesn't look like he's doing cartwheels anywhere. Looks more like a beaten dude to me.

That's the TV version. "Cartwheels" is the home game.
If Collins recedes from view, Turner gets a reprieve from his 2-yr yo-yo sentence, though ultimately he may only prove his doubters to be correct.

I wanted to give you "credit" as the first man to jump ship. Although I wish you were wrong. I remember the "high water mark" comment, so I looked back and it was made right after the Sixers started their slide (they were 20-10 at the time):

http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/sixers/sixers-die-by-the-three-repeat.php#comment-190930

Although it is sort of like looking back and seeing who predicted a stock market crash... it is always the guy who was walking around with "the world is ending" placard... and the were finally right.

Thanks for the credit, but ya gotta be on board first in order to jump ship.

Jan. 8 '12:

"Sixers happen upon another stray; enjoying SPCA schedule to date.

Spencer subtly begins his descent."

One extract for illustration.


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Hobbes reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 17 at 10:37
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I've been waiting in the terminal since, roughly, 2002.

I stumbled aboard in shock and disbelief. The Sixers dropped something in my Kool-Aid, and the aftereffects are unpleasant.

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Hobbes reply to tk76 on Apr 17 at 10:47
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Cheese-steaks help.

Position noted, appreciatively. Grounding voices are important.

In John Mitchell's otherwise ugly twitter war with Levin he did raise the interesting point that we are now dealing with a team giving up on two different coaches. When it was just EFJ it was easy to solely blame the coach. But now that it is two different coaches they have collapsed under you have to figure the players are a rotten bunch- despite their prior rep of high character hard working types.

It may just be that so many years of mediocrity have worn down many of the players as well. Brand, Iggy, Lou, Thad, Hawes and Jrue have never won much on the NBA level and it seems like they are now at peace with being bad.

Brand and Iggy have been frauds all along. I've never bought in. Got the serious puss, refective responder act down pat; turn around and laugh all the way to the bank. What has each ever won in NBA but games and stats accumulation? Playoff losers, when they make it there.
I'm at peace with the idea of their leaving town in tandem this summer.

*reflective

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Hobbes reply to tk76 on Apr 17 at 10:11
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"It may just be that so many years of mediocrity have worn down many of the players as well. Brand, Iggy, Lou, Thad, Hawes and Jrue have never won much on the NBA level and it seems like they are now at peace with being bad."

Bulls-eye.

We've got two "cores," one that's been mediocre for years and one that's learning to be mediocre for years.

There's a lot wrong with this roster, its architects, and the culture of the organization. There's probably several ways for this team to go, change-wise, this summer. Only one of the more radical departures makes sense to me. There needs to be a large-scale revamping. Start over. Again.


There are so many factors involved in why this team is collapsing. By making comments like this all you're doing is donating to the dollar bill troll fund.

You don't think this team gave up? I'm not saying these guys are all bums. But I do think collectively they have shown poor character and it makes it worth re-visiting the EFJ debacle. Sure Jordan stinks as a coach, but maybe it told us a bit about this young core that we were not open to considering at the time.

I'm the first to say this team lacks talent. But even taking that into consideration, IMO they have hugely played beneath themselves the last 30 games and the same can be said of 2 years ago. They seem to be the type of team that plays with confidence when things are going well, but lack any resiliency when the water gets choppy. Their terrible record in close games reinforces this.

I'm not trying to feed trolls. Simply talking about Brian's post about the team collectively quitting.

I absolutely think this team gave up, but your argument is too simplistic.

They shouldn't have given up on two coaches in a row?

EFJ is the type of coach that most rosters would've given up on. That was obvious. He was a terrible coach.

Collins has lots of positives as a coach, but also has negatives. We were all aware that he tends to wear on the players, and in a shortened season with little practice time, I can see how this issue would be highlighted even more. More so, he didn't really seem to develop any of the younger players, and certainly has not treated all of the players equally. Playing time is a sensitive issue for any one player, and a good coach can find a balance between this and keeping his players happy.

I would think that coaching any group of young guys, especially ones who have dealt with so much mediocrity over the years is a difficult task, and one would think if this is the end result then the roster needs to be blown up.

However, when you make comments like this, you open the door up for ridiculous statements about how Iguodala and Brand are money-grubbing, low-character guys from that idiot troll who lurks around here with nothing new to add to the conversation.

You make good points. But I also hear many fans that simply put all the blame at the coaches feet- and I have been hearing that for 8 coaches in a row. I guess if i were owner I would consider totally cleaning house- even if that means throwing out the good with the bad.

It would not be that unusual for new ownership to clean house after a year of evaluation.

I don't try to put too much blame in the coach. At some point, it is the players. It's difficult, though to single out just one player causing harm. Rather, it's collective. This is where the coach has to take blame, however, as he is ultimately responsible for getting one group of guys to mesh.

A good coach is hard to find, and I suppose that's why most of the good teams with good coaches keep them, and that's also why there are so many re-tread coaches floating around.

I agree that ownership needs to clean house. Both coach and roster needs to go.

Jeff,

You dance round and round in a ring and suppose,
But the secret sits in the middle and knows.

Sincerely,
NBA "troll" since 1961

If you're going to quote Frost, shouldn't you at least give him credit by using quotation marks? Now you're a thieving troll.

I let my young overheated copy editor and biggy Iggy fan, Jeff, tend to the small details. He seems to thrive in that role - parasitic duty.

That's a fancy way of avoiding the fact that you plagiarized, I called you out on it, and you don't have the decency to admit it.

Fact is, it was an oversight. Have always remembered the pith; forgot the famous pith-er. You're obfuscating the important part: the adage-y couplet (with slight contempory alteration) is bull's-eye. Now bug off - - do you have the decency for that?

*contemporary

I only started watching in the 2nd half. I did like the Turner substitution he put in to stop Ryan Anderson.

The 9 NBA wings with eFG% under 46% and TS% under 48%

Meta World Peace
Capt’n Jack
Josh Howard
Chris Singleton
Prince
Ronnie Brewer
Wes Johnson
Salmons
ET

data: http://www.hoopdata.com/scoringstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=S&yr=2012&gp=30&mins=20

Give him more shots, that'll solve everything.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 11:31
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BTW there are 78 wings playing 20+ minutes a night who manage to avoid making that ignominious list. That puts those 9 in roughly the bottom 10% of NBA regulars with regards to offensive efficiency. These are the guys you do not want to be your scorers. 8 bums and one guy persecuted by his coach :)

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MCT reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 12:22
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He has better percentages when he gets more shots up. In his career he has taken 10 or more shots in 42 games including the playoffs, his numbers are as follows:

Total Points = 586(14 ppg)

FG% = 47% (246/523)
3FG% = 34% (15/44)
FT% = 72.5% (79/109)

If my math is correct (which it usually isn't) his TS% in these games is 51.3% and his eFG% is 48.5%.

Still not very efficient but more respectable. And if he starts getting to the line more and improves his FT% to the mid to high 70's, he can be pretty solid.

Small sample size is awesome isn't it?

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 13:07
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I don't think it's small, that's a half a season. He hasn't even played two whole seasons yet.

It isn't just when he is shooting well, there are at least a dozen bad games in there. Some terrible.

Is there a single "scorer" in this league who takes less than 10 shots a game?

Or is it because when he starts off shooting well he gets more shots as opposed to the team going away from him?

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 13:09
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I'm sure that's it some of the time. If he starts out 0-4 or 1-5 he probably won't get many more shots after that.

To me, if a guy is used to shooting 14 or 15 tmes a game in college and then comes into the NBA and gets half as many, it's not a fair comparison.

To me - what a guy did in college is irrelevant - especially at turners advanced age once he's in the NBA for a while.

Turner is not a good NBA player yet - plain and simple - as a #2 pick he's a bust (and while it doesn't seem like anyone in his draft is burning the world up - favors seems to be improving) - that's what he is right now, and you can massage the numbers all you want, but 42 games is barely half an NBA season - all his numbers count - not just the ones where he had a good night.

He's terrible right now - i'd keep him - but i'd rather keep jrue as a point than turner as a point

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 13:53
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Sorry, if a guy shoots 1-5 or 2-6 in a 20 minute appearance that doesn't really tell me anything about how he can shoot. He has had many games like that. That's like one quarter for most "scorers".

I'll let you have the last word after this because I don't want it to turn into a super long Turner debate. You think he's bad, that's fair enough. I think he has shown potential when given the opportunity so I have some hope left that he can be really good, just not great.

I think you selectively looked at games where he is good.

I've looked at all the games he's played.

If you only look at the games where he plays well, you're skewing the data.

Look at all the games, remove the name evan turner, and tell me you see indication from said numbers that this is a guy who can be a good starter in the nba, a guy who you should give up on jrue holiday for?

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 14:01
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That's not true at all, there were about a dozen bad games in that sample. But games in which he is a bigger part of the offense tell me more than games in which he either barely plays, or isn't a part of the offense at all (i.e standing in the corner).

I never said I would give up Jrue for him either. I want to keep them both.

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 14:08
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It's like in football, does it tell you much about a RB if he gets 4 or 5 carries in a game? Or do you know more when they give him 20?

You learn much from both - you learn from EVERY RUN - every TOUCH - you don't selectively examine the data to fit your presupposed hypothesis

Which is what you're doing.

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 14:24
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That's just bullshit, data has context and you refuse to factor that in to your analysis.

And you refuse to acknowledge your own bias - both in selection and the fact that you want evan turner to be good so you skew the data to make him good

PS - we aren't talking about the NFL - we're talking about basketball

My bias is that I will look at ALL the available data to evaluate a player - your bias seems to be you like to pick and choose what proves your pre supposed hypothesis - which is just bad analytical training

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 14:29
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The correct answer, if you know anything about football, is that you don't know jack shit about a RB unless he gets a significant number of carries.

um-demarcus cousins?

.498 TS, 29.3% usage. He remains a death sentence on the offensive end, despite the counting stats and rebounding numbers. On defense, he's just lazy.

Interesting numbers. I would expect many players take more shots when they are shooting well. Unclear whether it is a chicken or egg thing.

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MCT reply to tk76 on Apr 17 at 13:10
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There are some awful games in that sample though. 2-11 and 2-14, etc.

Turner is not a good shooter, but he is definitely a rhythm player. You can't get in much of a rhythm if you only shoot 5 or 6 times in a game.

True. The question that will make or break his NBA career is whether he is worth giving the ball and a ton of shots to. The Sixers certainly have not even tried to answer that question, and I'm not convinced he is ready for the opportunity (outside of 3 good games.)

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MCT reply to tk76 on Apr 17 at 13:45
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Yeah at this point he's not worth giving it to that much if you're trying to win as many games as possible.

Of course, some people would have preferred letting the young guys play as much as possible and not worry about a 1st round playoff appearance.

To be fair, earlier this season they had most of us convinced they were better than a one and done playoff team.

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Hobbes reply to MCT on Apr 17 at 13:21
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So far, pretty fickle rhythm!

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Stan reply to tk76 on Apr 17 at 14:58
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Sign Eric Gordon and trade Turner for Biyombo once Charlotte drafts Anthony Davis :)

Jrue
Gordon
Iguodala
Brand
Biyombo

I have a feeling the new owners of the Hornets got the #1 as part of the deal from the league when they bought the team.

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Stan reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 15:10
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I've always wondered why they've never done the actual lottery live. Letting NO have the #1 pick would create a lot controversy. But having the number 2 or 3 pick would be a good consolation prize for them.

Part of the reason has to do with how the lottery works - it's called a 'lottery' but it's not a traditional lttery in the sense that you're used to seeing on television - it's sort of complicated and run a few times I thik

Yeah, they run it a minimum of three times, but sometimes it takes even more than that. Basically, teams have a certain number of combinations, so it's run for the first pick, then run again for the second, but if the combo that comes up for the second pick is owned by the team that already won the first pick, they have to run it again. Same for the third pick. I'd still like it if the process was televised.

This is interesting. Watching the game I started to get upset, then just decided they're gunning for the 8 spot to meet Chicago instead of Miami. It makes perfect sense to me...

Looks like they're gunning for the #9 spot to me. And not on purpose.

I like this blog so much, saved to my bookmarks. "To hold a pen is to be at war." by Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire. " by Peter De Vries.


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